Chuck,
Hi! Don't get me wrong, Im not saying CCIE's sh*t don't stink!!! I know a
few CCIEs that I would let touch my network. However, I consider that the
EXCEPTION and not the RULE. As a general rule of thumb, I consider the CCIE
level of knowledge and applicable skills to be higher than "minimal
competence." I suppose it really depends on your definition of "minimal
competence." I define minimal competence as someone who has a fundamental
understanding of networking with a small amount of hands-on experience. I
would generally classify a CCIE to have a more in-depth understanding of
networking fundamentals and quite a bit more hands-on experience than
someone with minimal competence.
Mr. Seltzer's writing says that the average CCIE is minimally competent in
the product (I'd guess he was referring to Cisco). I think that's like
saying NBA basketball players are minimally competent basketball players.
To Michael Jordan that's probably true, but Im sure the general public would
disagree. I suppose it really comes down to your definition of "minimal
competence." I have a great deal of respect for the majority of other
CCIE's who I have come in contact with and consider calling them minimally
competent to be an insult.
-Brad Ellis
CCIE#5796
""Chuck Larrieu"" wrote in message
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> like everything else in this business, the answer is "it depends".
>
> sorry folks, but CCIE's are not gods who walk among us.
>
> I personally know several CCIE's who are top notch and deserving of every
> dollar they get and every contract they land.
>
> I also personally know a couple who couldn't tell you how a packet gets
from
> one interface to another in a router.
>
> all the CCIE certification proves is that you have passed Cisco's lab
test.
> It does not prove one way or another whether you know jack about
networking.
> I suggest that there is a percentage of the 2000 or so who have attained
the
> cert since last year who did so only because they successfully memorized
> enough scenario configurations that they were able to luck their way
through
> when their lab closely resembled one of those scenarios they memorized.
>
> I personally know several folks who passed over the last 18 months whose
> only hands on experience was in their practice labs. Of these, all were
> pretty sharp dudes, by the way.
>
> From personal experience I can tell you that I saw absolutely nothing in
my
> lab that made me wish I'd spent more time reading RFC's, or Comer, or any
of
> the other great books of the networking world. I saw plenty that made me
> wish I'd spent more time on certain practice materials readily available
( I
> refer to the commercially available products. please do not contact me for
> names and sources )
>
> whenever this topic comes up, I see the same kinds of thought processes as
I
> used to see in the days when people asked what good an English degree did
> you in the job market. It isn't the degree. it's the intelligence behind
it.
>
> hate to say it, kids, but the CCIE has no clothes. Experience is what
really
> matters. the certification to many is just a ticket, just the beginning.
to
> those with a lot of experience, it is merely a validation of the skill
set.
> in and of itself it is like any other piece of paper - representative of
> something, but perhaps not representative of what you may think.
>
> Chuck
> back to the pod - got lots to do before December 3
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Don Claybrook
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 11:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: One Journalist's Opinion of CCIE [7:18843]
>
>
> I just ran across this one in Fortune Small Business. Below is an
excerpt.
> The journalist (Larry Seltzer) is attempting to give tips on how to hire
> technical consultants to do work for your small business. He's talking
> about
> how certifications aren't as important as one might think:
>
> "When looking for qualified help, don't read too much into a consultant's
> alphabet soup of certifications. They don't signify ability, just as my
> political science degree doesn't make me your next President. Terms like
> CCIE
> (Cisco Certified Internetwork Expert) indicate only successful completion
of
> the program and minimal competence in the product."
>
> I wish I knew this guy's email address. Anyway, I thought the group might
> get
> a kick out of it. Here's the link in case you want to read the whole
thing:
> http://netbusiness.netscape.com/fsb/features/sp_f_090601_1.psp
>
> Don Claybrook
> CCNP, CCDP (but not yet up to the minimal competence level of CCIE)
Message Posted at:
http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=18995&t=18843
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