Oops Myra I was thinking of a straight forward C-section for a whelp that was stuck - not a spay due to a ruptured uterus - different matter altogether don't you think? VBG
Annette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > Gosh Annette. You would need to ask my vet who has told me that bitches who > rupture and require a spay with the c-section frequently bleed quite > profusely. Myra > > > >From: Annette Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:52:27 +0100 > > > >Myra > >Out of curiosity why would a bitch having a C section require a blood > >transfusion? The blood loss is fairly minimal. > > > >Annette > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 10:46 PM > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > > > > > I wish I had your vet. Here, a c-section without complications runs > >about > > > $900 and with blood transfusions or other 'extras' they can be close to > > > $1200. Still a small price to pay to save your mom and babies, but more > > > than where you live. Myra > > > > > > > > > >From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 17:25:28 -0400 > > > > > > > >Wow. I can't understand that mentality. It is too foreign to my own > > > >attitude. That's not only heartless, it's criminally stupid--- not to > > > >mention the economics. She risked killing her female and let puppies > >worth > > > >thousands die because she didn't want to pay a couple of hundred for a > > > >section!?? > > > > > > > >I really don't like the guarantee of surviving puppies as you take away > >the > > > >responsibility of the bitch owner and put it on the stud owner who has > >no > > > >control over what happens in whelping or afterward. > > > > > > > >All the best, > > > >Susan Cochran > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 1:11 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well...sometimes the bitch owner doesn't quite do enough, in my > >opinion. > > > >We > > > > > let someone use our boy....three nice sized puppies on xray. Bitch > >was > > > >in > > > > > labor an extremely long time and finally delivered a dead bitch > >puppy. > > > > > Second bitch puppy came quickly and thrived. Then....third puppy > >took > > > >over > > > > > six hours to be delivered and was born dead. No trip to the > >vet...no > > > >help > > > > > was sought. The breeder's general thought process was to avoid a > > > >c-section > > > > > at all costs. Now, we owe her a free breeding back to our boy. In > >my > > > >heart > > > > > of hearts, I don't feel that everything was done to assure the live > > > >delivery > > > > > of those three little girls, and I resent having to give her a free > > > >breed > > > > > back. Additionally, I don't feel good knowing that I am a party to > >a > > > > > breeding where the owner of the bitch may not seek the help from a > > > > > professional that is clearly called for. When she called to tell > >me > > > >about > > > > > her litter, she said: "I wanted to use Robbie because I know he > > > >produces > > > > > girls and large litters. I sure didn't get a large litter from > >him." > > > >Well, > > > > > she might have gotten three healthy little girls, if she hadn't been > >so > > > > > worried about the expense of a c-section. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > > > >Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:40:36 -0400 > > > > > > > > > > > >I think that it is highly likely, given the amount of time, money, > >and > > > > > >interest--not too mention her heart-- that the bitch owner has > >invested > > > >in > > > > > >the breeding that she will do everything humanly possible to insure > > > >that > > > > > >any > > > > > >pup born alive has every advantage for survival. Repeating the > >breeding > > > > > >doesn't replace all that is lost in terms of heartache or even > > > >monetarily > > > > > >when the litter doesn't survive. > > > > > >All the best, > > > > > >Susan Cochran > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Jean Kingston" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:01 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think this is a case of blame laying, but I was under > >the > > > > > >impression > > > > > > > that the standard two live puppy guarantee was a guarantee on > >the > > > > > >viability > > > > > > > of the stud dog, so the question is... Who is responsible for > >the > > > >"s..t > > > > > > > happens" stuff? It probably depends on the circumstances at the > > > >time. > > > > > >An > > > > > > > extended time frame is just not something I would want to put in > > > > > >writing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean Kingston > > > > > > > Waawaaskone Reg'd. Cavaliers > > > > > > > A Fancy For Glass > > > > > > > http://www.cartogra.com/rs/67CF4CD0-65F5-11D6-B42B-0090277A760E > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Leanne Bertani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 12:12 AM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Stud Contract Question > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Almost all breeders will give a return stud service if there > >are > > > >no > > > > > >living > > > > > > > > puppies at the end of two weeks. Most cavalier breeders will > >give > > > >a > > > > > > > return > > > > > > > > service if there are not "two alive at two weeks". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Average puppy mortality in many breeds approaches 30%. Puppy > > > > > >mortality > > > > > > > due > > > > > > > > to infection is not usually easily preventable, so I wouldn't > > > >blame > > > >it > > > > > >on > > > > > > > > the caregiver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Chilling is over-rated as a cause of death. I once > >accidentally > > > >left > > > > > >a > > > > > > > > newborn cavalier puppy outside in the backyard in the rain all > > > >night > > > > > >long. > > > > > > > > When it was discovered in the morning, it was put with its > >mother > > > >and > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > rest of the litter and thrived normally to adulthood without > >any > > > > > >special > > > > > > > > care. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Leanne > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > do you have any stipulations regarding the cause of neonatal > > > > > > > > > death? What do you do about deaths caused by infections or > > > >chilling, > > > > > > > etc.? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > >email: > > > > > > > > > >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > > > > Search the Archives... > > > > > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its > >original > > > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the > >email: > > > > > 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Copyright 2002 by its original > > > >author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: > > > > > http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > > > "Magic Commands": > > > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > > > Search the Archives... > >http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > >author. > > > > > > > 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