This is ALL true, Annette. I think that public education on the subject of "toy" Cavaliers is the best way to combat this. Perhaps both of the clubs might want to take on that task on their websites and in other media.
You are quite right here, it may be deluding the public to suggest that her dogs have not the health problems of CKCS; but we have all heard stories of those who say MVD is "not in their lines". If I were to make that assertion and guarantee the health of my dogs, I, too might be putting myself in a problematic place should one of my puppies sold turn out to have MVD. Warm Regards, Suze (and her "King Charles Cavalier Spaniels"; the name most frequently used by pet inquirers in our neck of the woods) Annette Jones wrote: > > Suze > Having visited this lady's website it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth - you > may be right that she is not "passing off" her dogs as Cavaliers King > Charles Spaniels but by implication having them on the website with her CKCS > she is certainly giving that impression. Plus the fact that she is calling > them "Toy Cavaliers" How often do Cavalier King Charles Spaniels get called > by their correct name - I would suggest that 99% of the time people call > them Cavaliers. > Also to state that they have not the health problems that CKCS have is > deluding the public after all as mongrels they are bound to have inherited > some of the cavaliers genetic make up and very likely MVD > So you may be correct that she is doing nothing illegal but I doubt that > anyone looking for a pet and reading her webpages is likely to seek legal > advice as to whether her statements or true or not. > As for registering them it would be interesting to know with which > registering body - even in the days when Amice Pitt was starting the dogs > were registered with the KC - though I think it was not until about 1945 > that they were registered as a separate breed. > > Annette > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan A. Schlenger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 11:56 AM > Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] New (mutts)Cavaliers:rep to Suze > > > Hello, Lynn, > > There is much out there that I don't like or which bothers me that > > people do, but isn't illegal. For instance, puppymills are not illegal > > per se. (Maltreatment of animals is illegal). My comment had nothing > > to do with taking sides. > > > > I don't see that this woman is "passing off" her dogs as Cavalier King > > Charles Spaniels. She makes it clear that they are not *our* Cavaliers; > > to the point of creating a different breed standard. They are > > derivative, however, of Cavaliers as she does say. So, I don't see > > fraud here. She makes a point of distinguishing her "cavaliers" from > > the Cavalier King Charle Spaniel. > > > > It is not illegal to take money from people who want to join a private > > club. I have no idea if her organization is for profit or is > > non-profit; either way it is unclear how her charging dues is against > > any particular law. The service that she provides could simply be > > keeping records of her breedings and entering them into a stud book. > > > > My point in mentioning the CKCSC, USA was that it provided such a > > service for the then unrecognized Cavalier King Charles Spaniel when it > > was formed. > > > > So, my comment to you was really by way of asking what you thought was > > illegal? If this woman DOES say that this new breed has some sort of > > standing as a "recognized" breed or something of that sort, then perhaps > > there would be some legal ground on which someone with standing could > > pursue her. > > > > I don't think that this world needs another breed of dog; we are still > > trying to sort out the genetic problems of the existing dogs. I simply > > don't think you can stop people from breeding crossbreeds to create > > another breed, call it what they will, sell them and attempt to create a > > new breed. This, as it is mentioned by several other breeders, has > > happened in other breeds as well. > > > > > > Of course you are not the "enemy", and I apologize if you took my > > comment in that light. Often people see lawsuits as the only recourse > > to things that they don't like, and I'm merely suggesting that, in cases > > like this one, public education may be the better solution. > > > > > > Suze > > > > > > > > Lynn Beman wrote: > > > > > > Dear Suze - Of course I was not implying that the CKCSC USA registry is > > > illegal, unethical or anything other than what it is: a legitimate > registry > > > organized by a legitimate, legally organized organization. It's > registration > > > fees help support the activity of the organization which, unless I'm > totally > > > mistaken, is a legal not for profit corporation. My first Cavalier was > > > registered with CKCSC USA and my most recent addition is also. I was > proud to > > > be a member of the club in 1988 and I'm happy to be so again today. > > > The so-called "Toy Cavalier Spaniel" "registry" appears to me to > be a > > > scam, pure and simple. There does not appear to be an organized group > behind > > > the registry. It does not seem to be even a group or club (unless you > can > > > have a group of one). It seems to be "run" solely by this one breeder > who > > > seems to possibly is holding her own dog shows, too. A single > individual is > > > taking money from unsuspecting or unknowledgeable people under the > pretense > > > of providing a service that simply doesn't legitimately exist. I'm not > an > > > attorney, but I do know that in New York State the Attorney General's > office > > > is always very interested in looking into these type of scams. > > > If this individual was doing business in NYS, I promise you I > would be > > > in touch with the AG as fast as I could dial the phone and type a > letter. I > > > think this woman is trying to make a fast buck on the back of cute > little > > > dogs and unsuspecting buyers. > > > And I did not say that it was illegal or even unethical or > immoral to > > > crossbreed or to sell crossbred (mutts) to anyone -- unless they're > trying to > > > pass them off as something else, like purebred Cavaliers. > > > So come on, please don't be so quick to jump to rash conclusions: > I'm > > > not the enemy....the shady breeders, puppy millers and scam artists are. > You > > > and I are on the same side -- aren't we? > > > Lynn Beman > > > Amherst NY > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > "Magic Commands": > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > > -- > > Suze at Llawen Cavaliers > > "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man > > to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica > > "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear > > > > ========================================================= > > "Magic Commands": > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > to start it up gain click here: > > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > > ========================================================= > "Magic Commands": > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > to start it up gain click here: > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. -- Suze at Llawen Cavaliers "...I have seen that in any great undertaking it is not enough for a man to depend simply upon himself." -Isna Ia-wica "Thought comes before speech" Luther Standing Bear ========================================================= "Magic Commands": to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL to start it up gain click here: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author.
