What I am saying Myra, is that grading on prelims, or any xray for that matter, can be detrimentally affected by poor equipment and a sloppy vet. I don't think that the dog improved two grades. I think that poor vet positioning and a dark, blurry xray was the reason for the prelim grade. So, before a breeder neuters a promising dog, it would be wise to make sure that the poor grade was not due to something other than the actual structure of the hips.
We recently had several permanent xrays done on our older dogs and two improved from the prelim rating. The rest stayed the same. All the best, Susan Cochran ----- Original Message ----- From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Hip prelims > What you are saying Susan, is that the equipment improved, or that the > technique improved. The hips themselves rarely improve. Technique and > equipment may be updated and results may vary, but the hips themselves don't > look shakey on a prelim and wonderful at 2 years of age. Myra > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > >From: Susan Cochran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Hip prelims > >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 16:37:54 -0400 > > > >Myra, a prelim can improve from mild for the prelim to good for the 2 yr > >permanent. There are usually extenuating circumstances. In the case that I > >am thinking about, for the prelim the xray equipment was very old and the > >positioning wasn't great. When the two year was done, the best vet and top > >notch xray equipment was used. Result: two grades better on the permanent. > >It is more common for the prelim to be a grade lower than the above, but a > >jump of two grades does happen. The other thing is that the prelim may be > >done too early. I wouldn't do one for a dog under a year unless it there > >were other factors involved. > > > >All the best, > >Susan Cochran > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Myra Savant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:04 PM > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Hip prelims > > > > > > > I doubt that bad hips on a prelim will become good hips for a permanent. > > > Hips that appear on xray on a youngster to be okay still have time for > > > arthritic changes to appear and for age to damage the hip joint. When > >you > > > have your boy xrayed, Robin.....take those xrays home and study them for > >a > > > while. Compare them to the examples available on other sites. If hips > >are > > > good, it doesn't take a genius to be able to see it, nor does it take > >any > > > special vision to tell if they are bad. The sensitive area is between > >fair > > > and fail. In our boy's case, I had a chance to review both the prelims > >and > > > the permanent together. No doubt but that the right joint had chanced > > > significantly. We later discovered that another boy from that same > >litter > > > had the same condition. Mom and dad were both OFA good. Myra > > > > > > > > > > > > Myra Savant Gardengate Cavaliers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Robin McLeod <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >Reply-To: The Cavalier King Charles Spaniel List > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Subject: Re: [CKCS-L] Hip prelims > > > >Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 07:46:51 -0700 > > > > > > > >--- Myra Savant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Just a reminder though on this > > > > > topic.....occasionally a prelim result will > > > > > differ from the two year xray... > > > > > I think that the > > > > > reason OFA doesn't give > > > > > them permanent certification until after 24 months > > > > > is because you don't > > > > > always see changes in the joints until they have > > > > > passed the 2 year mark. > > > > > > > >I am learning so much from this discussion. I do have > > > >a question -- perhaps one of you will have an answer. > > > >When doing prelims on hips, is there a greater chance > > > >of having a false negative than a false positive? And > > > >if so, would this be because growing continues, and a > > > >dog with good hips will go bad more likely than a dog > > > >with bad hips will go good? So, if this all holds, it > > > >would make sense to do prelims to see if keeping a cav > > > >as potential breeding stock another year is worth it > > > >-- > > > > if good prelim --> keep and recheck in 1 yr. > > > > if bad prelim --> place as a pet. > > > > > > > >Thanks for helping me get this, > > > > > > > >Robin McLeod > > > >Minnesota (where Teddy is barking at the falling snow!) > > > > > > > >__________________________________________________ > > > >Do you Yahoo!? > > > >Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site > > > >http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > >========================================================= > > > >"Magic Commands": > > > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > >mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > >to start it up gain click here: > > > >mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original > >author. > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! > > > http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp > > > > > > ========================================================= > > > "Magic Commands": > > > to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > > > mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > > > to start it up gain click here: > > > mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > > > Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > > > > All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > >========================================================= > >"Magic Commands": > >to stop receiving mail for awhile, click here and send the email: > >mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20NOMAIL > >to start it up gain click here: > >mailto:LISTSERV@;APPLE.EASE.LSOFT.COM?body=SET%20CKCS-L%20MAIL > > > > E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] for assistance. > >Search the Archives... http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ckcs-l.html > > > >All e-mail sent through CKCS-L is Copyright 2002 by its original author. > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Broadband? 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