>> In short, I think that the Java and Clojure way of packaging software
>> make life much easier for programmers, package maintainers, and
>> administrators, not harder. Making applications self-contained helps
> 
> I have no experience with this yet, but one reason for looking into the JVM 
> has been the hope for a simpler deployment scheme.

Back in the day I used to write Java code, and indeed the concept of an 
"uber-jar" file made things nice, but if I remember correctly jar files cannot 
contain native code dependencies (I could be mistaken, let me know).

That was the only area where distribution is a pain with Java, damned native 
libraries.

- Greg

On Feb 8, 2010, at 11:02 AM, Konrad Hinsen wrote:

> On 07.02.2010, at 03:25, Constantine Vetoshev wrote:
> 
>> I stopped using Python and Ruby and Perl partly because the packaging
>> situation for all those languages is a horrible mess. For example, if
> 
> I agree. It's not just packaging, even providing sufficiently general 
> installation scripts is a difficult task. Even with the help of tools like 
> autoconf, figuring out what is installed and what needs to be added is far 
> from trivial. Add to this the unfortunate but undeniable existence of 
> incorrect or incomplete software installations on many machines. It's a real 
> pain. I distribute a couple of scientific computing software packages, mostly 
> written in Python but all with some C code in them and some external 
> dependencies. A large part of technical support questions is about 
> installation problems.
> 
>> In short, I think that the Java and Clojure way of packaging software
>> make life much easier for programmers, package maintainers, and
>> administrators, not harder. Making applications self-contained helps
> 
> I have no experience with this yet, but one reason for looking into the JVM 
> has been the hope for a simpler deployment scheme.
> 
> Konrad.
> 
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