Yeah - I'm coming to the conclusion that this idle thought didn't really
have any value. The discussion was interested though.
On 8 Feb 2014 17:30, "Gary Verhaegen" <gary.verhae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For multiple calls to map, you can always do:
>
> (->> things
> (map #(-> % wrangle pacify))
> (filter effable)
> (map #(aggravate % :bees :sharks))
> (reduce mapinate {})
>
> but, as others have said, I'm not sure you can meaningfully compress that
> if you have to decide between map, filter and reduce. Perhaps implement an
> embeddable J to Clojure compiler, either as a macro reading in symbols or
> as a function reading in a string? Not sure about the amount of effort
> involved, though.
>
>
> On 8 February 2014 15:18, t x <txrev...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I think the problem is as follows:
>>
>> map = 3 characters
>> filter = 6 characters
>>
>> Given that we're doing clojure not apl, to specify the function we're
>> mapping/filtering on, we have to do either:
>> #( ... % ) = 5 characters off the bat
>> or provide the name of the function (atleast 1 english word)
>>
>> Thus, even if we reduced map to M and filter to F, it's very unlikely
>> that we'll ever shorten anything by more than 50% (just given the # of
>> characters required to specify the function that we are
>> mapping/filtering on.)
>>
>>
>> From this, it seems, unless we go the APL route and make the task of
>> describing the filtering/mapping function itself very short, there's
>> almost no gain in shortening map / filter.
>>
>>
>> This isn't meant to be discouraging -- in fact, I'd love to see a way
>> to mix APL + Clojure. :-) Often times, I'm looking at a multiline
>> clojure expression and thinking: "this'd be a single line of APL."
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 8:03 PM, Mars0i <marsh...@logical.net> wrote:
>> > Since a few of these higher order functions--map, filter, reduce,
>> etc.--are
>> > so common and useful, I wonder whether there could be sufficient
>> benefit to
>> > having some abbreviations for them. I know that some of these
>> characters
>> > are already taken, but just to sketch the idea:
>> >
>> > (--> things %wrangle %pacify |effable %#(aggravate % :bees :sharks)
>> > \(mapinate {}) )
>> >
>> > In one sense this reduces the visual complexity of Korny's example. In
>> > another sense it increases it. I thought this option was worth
>> mentioning,
>> > but I don't think I like it. It makes the syntax closer to line noise,
>> and
>> > if there are too many magical characters, no one will remember what they
>> > mean except the people who use them all of the time (like some of the
>> > options in Perl regexps). Why not go all the way, and provide an
>> alternate
>> > APL-style syntax for Clojure?
>> >
>> >
>> > On Friday, February 7, 2014 9:14:27 AM UTC-6, t x wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I think
>> >>
>> >> (->> things
>> >> (map wrangle)
>> >> (map pacify)
>> >> (filter effable)
>> >> (map #(aggravate % :bees :sharks))
>> >> (reduce mapinate {})
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> is optimal for the following reason:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If you're doing "map" and "map alone", i.e.
>> >>
>> >> (->> things
>> >> (map f1)
>> >> (map f2)
>> >> (map f3)
>> >> (map f4))
>> >>
>> >> then you can do:
>> >>
>> >> (map #(f4 (f3 (f2 (f1 %)))) things)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Now, if you're not doing pure maps, i.e. maps + filters
>> >>
>> >> Then for each function call, from an information theoretic
>> >> perspective, you have to, at the very least, specify:
>> >>
>> >> (*) the function to be called
>> >> (*) whether it's a filter or a map
>> >>
>> >> in this case,
>> >>
>> >> what you initially have is optimal.
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 6:33 AM, Korny Sietsma <ko...@sietsma.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > I tend to agree, I think. I certainly can't think of a syntax that
>> >> > would
>> >> > make me happy. It just feels like a bit of a smell that I keep using
>> >> > ->> to
>> >> > process sequences in similar ways.
>> >> >
>> >> > The data.zip "xml->" macro is an example of something like what I'm
>> >> > thinking
>> >> > about - it lets you process sequences of xml data nicely:
>> >> > http://clojure.github.io/data.zip/#clojure.data.zip.xml/xml->
>> >> >
>> >> > ... but I can't see a way to use something similar for the sort of
>> data
>> >> > I'm
>> >> > processing. I'll let this percolate, and stick to just using lots of
>> >> > (map)
>> >> > and (filter) instead.
>> >> >
>> >> > - Korny
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On 6 February 2014 18:34, Jozef Wagner <jozef....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I agree with Colin, the cognitive load is greater than benefits of
>> such
>> >> >> approach. BTW you can use comp to chain consecutive map
>> transformation
>> >> >> functions. (map (comp pacify wrangle) things)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> JW
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Korny Sietsma <ko...@sietsma.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Hi folks,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I seem to regularly find myself writing ->> threaded code that
>> follows
>> >> >>> similar patterns:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> (->> things
>> >> >>> (map wrangle)
>> >> >>> (map pacify)
>> >> >>> (filter effable)
>> >> >>> (map #(aggravate % :bees :sharks))
>> >> >>> (reduce mapinate {})
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> i.e. all stages of the code actually operate on a collection rather
>> >> >>> than
>> >> >>> a single value - usually with a call to "map" at each stage. This
>> >> >>> example
>> >> >>> is over simplified - often many of the calls to map are inline
>> >> >>> functions,
>> >> >>> which makes this even more verbose.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I wonder if there would be value in (yet another) variant on '->'
>> that
>> >> >>> assumes you are threading a collection and calling 'map' by
>> default.
>> >> >>> I'm
>> >> >>> not sure of the syntax that would work though. Something like:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ([]-> things
>> >> >>> wrangle
>> >> >>> pacify
>> >> >>> [:filter effable]
>> >> >>> (aggravate :bees :sharks)
>> >> >>> [:reduce mapinate {}])
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I'm not sure about the syntax for non-map functions, I'm not even
>> sure
>> >> >>> if
>> >> >>> this is worthwhile. Thoughts?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> - Korny
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> --
>> >> >>> Kornelis Sietsma korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
>> >> >>> .fnord { display: none !important; }
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Kornelis Sietsma korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
>> >> > .fnord { display: none !important; }
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