Daniel, I think this turned out to be a great discussion, so I'm glad you've 
derailed it. It's very interesting to read others perspective on Om and Reagent 
and their respective benefits. :)

On Monday, September 15, 2014 7:16:03 AM UTC-4, Daniel Kersten wrote:
> So what it really comes down to (for me, at least) is what approaches the 
> API's encourage.
> 
> 
> Reagent seems to encourage you to do what I would say is the "right way" 
> (separation of state) from the start, where Om (unintentionally perhaps) 
> encourages you to put everything in one atom, so you have to learn not to do 
> that. But on the flipside it gives powerful state management tools out of the 
> box that you need to provide yourself with Reagent (my instinct is that 
> something like DataScript is a perfect fit!)
> 
> 
> Overall, it looks like Reagent has a more pure-functional feel while Om has 
> an OO feel, although the render function is actually pure functional (you 
> shouldn't directly set state from it!).
> 
> 
> Sorry again for derailing your announcement tread, Dmitri! :-(
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for chiming in! Its good to get a better understanding of the 
> ecosystem and what everything is good or not so good at!
> 
> 
> On 14 September 2014 20:18, Gary Trakhman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> I can get things done with Om + sablono but I'd be interested to understand 
> the tradeoffs in more detail.
> 
> 
> But it does look like Om is more low-level than Reagent to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 1:12 PM, Matt Ho <[email protected]> wrote:
> As someone else who's making the switch from om to reagent, I have to agree 
> with what folks are saying.  It's cleaner and easier to wrap your head around 
> reagent than om.  After having read the om tutorial many times, I found a 
> single walkthru of http://holmsand.github.io/reagent/ and I was off to the 
> races.
> 
> 
> 
> M
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:26:12 AM UTC-7, Dmitri Sotnikov wrote:
> 
> > At the end of the day, anything you can do with one you can also do with 
> > the other. I think the appeal of Reagent, as others have pointed out, is 
> > that it leads to much shorter and cleaner code by providing a simpler and 
> > more focused API.
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> >
> 
> > On Saturday, September 13, 2014 1:22:31 PM UTC-4, Daniel Kersten wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > > It sounds like Reafent naturally encourages this model while with Om 
> > > there's a tendency to put everything into one atom - until you learn 
> > > through experience at least!
> 
> >
> 
> > >
> 
> >
> 
> > > On 13 Sep 2014 15:32, "Dmitri Sotnikov"  wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > > That sounds very similar to the Reagent model then. I found that it was 
> > > the natural approach there, since creating local component states is 
> > > straight forward and it makes them readily reusable. This simply wasn't 
> > > clear to me when I tried using Om and I found that the additional 
> > > complexity that Om introduced was completely incidental to the 
> > > applications I was writing.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > On Saturday, September 13, 2014 6:32:58 AM UTC-4, Daniel Kersten wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > >
> 
> >
> 
> > > > Dmitri, I would say that all of the donain data - that is, data that 
> > > > you might persist in a database - should be stored in the app state 
> > > > atom, but all temporary data about how to display the domain data (what 
> > > > page are you on, what tab is visible, is the button pressed, how much 
> > > > of a list is being shown, etc etc) should be in component local state.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > > From what I've read, this is also how Facebook do things with their 
> > > > flux architecture.
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> > > > I started writing Om by storing everything in the one atom (I think the 
> > > > natural tendency is to do that) but I think you quickly realise that 
> > > > it's unwieldy (as you and others have asserted). Because it is! Then 
> > > > you transition to a model where the data you are operating on is 
> > > > separated from the incidental data and everything becomes much nicer 
> > > > and easier.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> > > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > On 12 Sep 2014 21:02, "Dmitri Sotnikov" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > >
> 
> >
> 
> > > > This might simply be my own lack of familiarity with the Om workflow. 
> > > > The impression I got was that most state should live in a global atom 
> > > > that you create cursors into and communication between components 
> > > > should happen using core.async channels.
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> > > > On Friday, September 12, 2014 12:11:09 PM UTC-4, Jamie Orchard-Hays 
> > > > wrote:
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> > > > > I'm pondering the implications of your comments, Dmitri. In Om, I 
> > > > > have a single atom for my application data, but I have another atom 
> > > > > that holds static data I pull from the server, for example lists for 
> > > > > drop-down select lists. WRT local state, each Om component can have 
> > > > > its own local state completely separate from the app data.
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> > > > > On Sep 11, 2014, at 4:31 PM, Dmitri Sotnikov  wrote:
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> > > > > > So, good news is that Sean just submitted a patch for Reagent 
> > > > > > cursors a few days ago. Hopefully, that will make it into the next 
> > > > > > release.
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> > > > > > In terms of performance I would actually expect Reagent to behave 
> > > > > > better than Om since it doesn't force everything into a single 
> > > > > > state atom. Reagent allows easily creating local states and that 
> > > > > > makes it much easier to control what nodes need to be recalculated.
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> > > > > > If I understand it correctly, the worst case for Reagent where you 
> > > > > > use a single state atom for everything is the normal case for Om.
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> > > > > > On Thursday, September 11, 2014 2:34:25 PM UTC-4, Sean Grove wrote:
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> > > > > >> Bit of a sidenote, but now that the libraries are getting more 
> > > > > >> mature, It'd be great to see some complex-ish apps (say, 
> > > > > >> Omchaya-size or larger, but maybe even CircleCI's frontend 
> > > > > >> https://github.com/circleci/frontend) for a side-by-side 
> > > > > >> comparison + speed benchmarks, to get a sense of the tradeoffs as 
> > > > > >> apps scale out. I'm personally curious about whether Reagent's 
> > > > > >> ease of use comes with a cost at some point.
> 
> >
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> > > > > >> On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 8:01 AM, Jamie Orchard-Hays 
> > > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
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> >
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> > > > > >> On my project, I was using data in the form of a recursive 
> > > > > >> tree--an editable one. I got stuck somewhere WRT to this in 
> > > > > >> Reagent. (I wrote a question to the original developer, but he 
> > > > > >> never replied.) For my purposes, Om's cursors made handling data 
> > > > > >> updates trivial, so it was a big win. However, I'm sure I've put a 
> > > > > >> lot more man hours in the UI development with Om than I would have 
> > > > > >> with Reagent.
> 
> >
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> > > > > >> So in the end, the fact that I had a recursive tree of data to 
> > > > > >> work with gave Om the edge, otherwise I would have used Reagent.
> 
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> > > > > >> I also had a look at Quiescent, but it was too thin a layer over 
> > > > > >> React for what I'm doing.
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> > > > > >> Ideally, we'd have Reagent's UI simplicity combined with Om's 
> > > > > >> wonderful app data handling.
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> > > > > >> On Sep 10, 2014, at 10:11 PM, Dmitri Sotnikov 
> > > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
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> > > > > >>> I actually found Reagent's data handling to be very flexible. It' 
> > > > > >>> makes it easy to create local states for components as well as 
> > > > > >>> managing the global state using a global state atom. I'd be 
> > > > > >>> curious to hear what limitations others have run into and how 
> > > > > >>> they could be addressed.
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> > > > > >>> On Wednesday, September 10, 2014 11:40:13 AM UTC-4, Jamie 
> > > > > >>> Orchard-Hays wrote:
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> > > > > >>>> I'm curious as well. I started with Reagent, but switched to 
> > > > > >>>> Om/Sablono after finding Reagent's app data handling too limited 
> > > > > >>>> for what I needed. The trade-off is much more to think about 
> > > > > >>>> (complexity) when writing Om components.
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> >
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> > > > > >>>>
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> > > > > >>>> Jamie
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> >
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> > > > > >>>> On Sep 9, 2014, at 3:51 AM, Daniel Kersten <[email protected]> 
> > > > > >>>> wrote:
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> > > > > >>>> My apologies for an off topic post in this thread - we can take 
> > > > > >>>> it off list or to a separate thread if it needs more than a 
> > > > > >>>> simple reply - especially since the library looks really good!
> 
> >
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> > > > > >>>> Sean could you write a little about why you switched away from 
> > > > > >>>> Om?
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> > > > > >>>> I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what pros and 
> > > > > >>>> cons Om and Reagent have and why Reagent is a better fit for 
> > > > > >>>> your specific use case.  I've seen a few people switching lately 
> > > > > >>>> so I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > > > >>>> On 9 Sep 2014 01:01, "Sean Corfield" <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
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> > >
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> > > > > >>>> That looks great Dmitri! We've just made the switch from 
> > > > > >>>> Om/Sablono to Reagent so this will be very handy for us I expect.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> > > > > >>>> Sean
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> 
> > > > > >>>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dmitri Sotnikov 
> > > > > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> >
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> >
> 
> > > > > >>>>> The goal of the library is to automate the process of binding 
> > > > > >>>>> form elements to a document represented by a map in a Reagent 
> > > > > >>>>> atom.
> 
> >
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> > >
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> > > > > >>>>
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> > > > > >>>>> https://github.com/yogthos/reagent-forms
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> >
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> > > > > >>>>> Feedback and contributions are welcome. :)
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> >...

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