RE: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?

[Andrew Barnes]

Title: RE: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?

Thanks Shawn.   I've been on forums of various levels of activity - 20 posts a day or so to 5 or 600 in an hour.    It's my opinion that it's not the forum that is responsible for the activity itself, but the people who frequent it.  Forum setup/layout plays some impact, but it disappears once someone gets used to how the forum works...  Just like a website - who will check if few to none are doing the same?   Thanks, Andrew   -----Original Message----- From: Shawn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 12:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?   > Once again - exactly what makes a forum so unwieldly?  It takes the same effort merely directed in a different manner.&nbs p; More to the point would be that > you are afraid of change.  The only way a forum ends up not being visited is if those who began it don't continue to support it and foster the > community - the onus is on us. Sorry, have to disagree here.  I have used both forums and mailing lists - the BIG differnce is that I HAVE to check my mail every day (due to work), and with the correct filters, the list is nicely bundled into a separate folder for me to puruse when I have time.  To use a forum would require me to first HAVE free time, then open a browser and browse to the site in question, then determine which messages I haven't seen yet, and Oh, this migh t span multiple pages - which results in more clicks, and network lag waiting for pages to load, then determining if I've read the messages on that page.  Admittedly, a newer user, or someone not in the computer industry may like this approach better.  But for most users whose time is at a premium, quick is the rule (notice too that I'm typing this message at 12:30 AM??)  - regardless of their trade.  So, Email wins that argumen t.  In my eyes at least.   Also, to add my own observations, taking a look at the mailing lists and forums for the various topics I need to deal with - the forums almost always have very low usage compared to the mailing lists.  Where a forum might see 50 messages a day, a related mailin g list might see 500.  Of course, this is not scientific proof - just what I've noticed myself.   All said, I think the solution here is to "tweak" the archives to be more responsive, and to behave similarly to a forum, but still be a mailing list at it's heart.  Thus we'll get the best of both w orlds.   Shawn I didn't misunderstand you, because the statement was not yours but Christain's.  All for the "newbies" issue, I did not say you were beholden - that your misunderstan ding.  My point was there has been an underlying tone of wanting separation from newcomers - even in the meeting on this past Wednesday, the statement was made about "not dealing with newbies".  I would then not be the one "making it difficult" for others to partake - rather, *I'm* the one who is offering suggestions for how to become more inviting. As for this "healthy mix" not working on a forum, then I guess you aren't aware of forums like [ H]ardOCP.com, Anandtech.com, MaximumPC, ExtremePC just to name a few.  A mailing list and a forum are the same thing, only approached differently and vary  only slightly on issues - the people make the difference, not the medium. -----Original Message----- From: Aaron J. Seigo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 10:58 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: (clug-talk) Website and Forum?   -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday 05 December 2002 02:23, Andrew Barnes wrote: > Using the forum for news & general meetings defeats the purpose of a forum > - that information is better serve d on the homepage where it's seen > immediately.  Why make someone dig for news? agreed > I realize it is everyone's choice as to which communication method to use, > but it is sabotage to exclude one.  Frankly, quite elitist if someone > wishes to keep themselves from the "newbies".  We were all newbies at one > time, and how does one expect new people to join if the effort is not made > to welcome them? perhaps you misunderstood what i was saying when i said that forums would result in many of those who have knowledge to offer not being there. it isn't that they are elitist and say "i don't DO web forums", rather web forums are inneficient and unwieldl y, especially when compared to email. so they simply often end up not visiting them. if it isn't convenient for these very busy people to get to, they won't get to it as often. that should be an easy concept to grasp, especially since this isn't their job but rather it's an avocation.. as for "keeping themselves from the newbies", since when was i and my free time beholden to anyone? reality check 101: everyone is here because they wish to be. nobody is your personal help desk slave, your personal code monkey, your personal wishlist implementor. the moment you start making demands of people is the moment they start backing off. if you make things difficult to get involved, people will move off. this is true for both newbies and the experienced. so, which would you rather have: a bunch of clueless newbies milling about, just experienced hands on the ranch, or a healthy mix of both? i'm all for the healthy mix. that would indeed by helped by a better website and i'm glad to hear you are working on one. but i look at this mailing list and see a  healthy mix, something which i guarentee you won't happen on a web forum. > I am not calling for the death of the mailing list much less IRC; I am > calling for a format that others might be more familiar with to include > those people for their participation. email isn't familiar? what internet do you live on? everyone i know on the < BR>'net does email, and the newbies tend to be a lot more familiar and comfortable with it. and for godess' sake people: can you please delete the parts of the emails you don't reply to in your replies? 20k for 2 lines of reply is rediculous. - -- Aaron J. Seigo GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43 "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler"     - Albert Einstein -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE98OU11rcusafx20MRApqtAJ0QqtG9T7xBDyDVmvwfHcJ0+zogJgCgprLv hm5d9GHVmOUZhk2gDp0lSVI= =nj+d -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----