-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Here's a link to two videos. Unfortunately, neither of them are the one I saw :/ In 
any case, if you watch the cyber security one you might get a
laugh. A level of ignorance can be found on both sides.

http://www.c-span.org/search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=cyber&image1.x=0&image1.y=0&image1=Submit



Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
| On Thursday 25 September 2003 09:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
|
|>itself. The thinking is that the quality of the code is much lower; that
|
|
| and yet closed source software continues to have as many if not more serious
| security issues. so much for "quality" of code...
|
| there's also the issue of having all open source code, well, open. it's easy
| to look at it and criticize it since you have the luxury of seeing it and
| criticizing it. it's much harder to be critical of the quality of code you
| can't see. i think anyone who's worked in real life situations on closed
| projects will tell you that people's ability to write code doesn't magically
| improve just because nobody can see the code; the opposite is true IME. most
| coders suck, therefore most code sucks. period.
|
|
|>many people do not even review the source with a very scrutinizing eye and
|
|
| key word: "many". reality: "enough". if it wasn't being scrutinized, then
| patches to Free Software security issues would always lag behind what the
| blackhats knew and were exploiting. but it's the exact opposite. patches for
| security issues affected Free Software are almost always ahead of the game,
| and the ONLY way you can manage that is if there is serious review with a
| "scrutinizing eye" by the good guys.
|
|
|>those that do don't have the expertise required to pinpoint the various
|>vulnerabilities that may be present.
|
|
| people in the security industry tend to be a bunch of arrogant assholes. the
| coders think they are hotter than the sun's core, and the salespeople/execs
| usually have little compunction about stretching the truth or speaking
| outside their realm of knowledge just to push sales. that's how we go the
| "virus protection" industry and l33t speak. outside of their actual security
| analysis of specific pieces of software, i don't much weight behind anything
| they say because it's usually wildly innaccurate.
|
| here's the text of a mail i posted to another list last week regarding the
| dual sendmail and OpenSSH security announcements that i think states the
| realities of software security much clearer:
|
| ===
| well, we always need to be concerned when it comes to security issues. Open
| Source is not a panacea; there  are security issues that arise from time to
| time and they should be taken seriously. the Internet is a shared resource,
| so we each have a responsibility to ensuring its health. it's quite important
| how security issues are discovered and handled and what our options as users
| are.
|
| with closed source software, the vendor has very little motivation to take of
| security issues in a timely manner. this is because fixing a security problem
| takes time and money, and there's usually no means to recoup that investment
| if you release it as a patch. many closed source companies take care of
| security issues primarily to avoid disenfranchising their users. if they feel
| they can get away with not fixing it (the public doesn't know, their users
| aren't concerned, etc), they usually try and do just that. fortunately, many
| vendors of closed source software are more sensitive to this issue today
| since Linux and other Free Software projects have pushed security to the
| forefront; we still see far too much lip service being paid, however.
|
| in the closed source world, threats are usually discovered by the black hats
| and exploited long before the users are informed about it. the vendor may or
| may not know, but when they do they often they keep it under their hat hoping
| no one will find out before their next scheduled upgrade (which they can
| charge for), if at all. but as a user, you never really know. anybody
| remember that MS security bulletin last year warning about massive intrusions
| ocuring that they "couldn't explain" but felt the need to warn admins about
| anyways?
|
| with Free / Open Source Software, there is a real motivation to find problems
| and fix them: the code is open for anyone to peruse (including the black
| hats) and those who work on the software usually depend on it themselves as
| users. we also have the benefit of the "many eyes make bugs shallow"
| principle, which usually works pretty well for security. but we also have
| choice: what to use, when and how. this is a bigger ally than it's often
| given credit for.
|
| in the case of the sendmail exploit, more and more people are (thankfully)
| using something else, such as Postfix. for those who are stuck with sendmail
| for one reason or another, more's the pity, but fortunately for them patches
| are readily available. they could also switch to another MTA temporarily (or
| permanently) at no cost beyond that of installing and starting the
| alternative MTA, while waiting for binaries.
|
| but for many this sendmail flaw isn't an issue because we have a plethora of
| choices: postfix and (the non-Free) qmail for example; more Linux
| distributions are shipping with postfix as a default rather than sendmail
| these days. is that sort of inexpensive, easy and pragmatically driven
| choice typically available in the closed source world? nope. when Exchange
| has a flaw, Exchange has a flaw and you just have to hope that the fix comes
| out from MS sooner rather than later (it's often already later by the time
| you know about it, however). switching in the meantime is expensive and
| laborious, if at all possible.
|
| as for the OpenSSH flaw, as far as I'm aware all major Free Software operating
| system vendors have already shipped updated packages. there are still
| questions as to the severity of the flaw: it's definitely DOS'able, but
| perhaps not fully exploitable (the buffer is on the heap which makes it
| trickier). the fact there is debate means that there aren't any (widespread?)
| exploits in the wild ... which means that this is yet another non-starter for
| those who would like to demean Free Software.
|
| i know that all my systems, except one, were updated automagically as the
| patches became available. that one exception is running an older OS version
| (i really need to upgrade it, but it's just so stable =) and i had compiled
| OpenSSH from source on it; in that case i simply grabbed the source patch and
| applied it locally on that machine and recompiled. try that on a
| now-unsupported closed source system.
|
| while this was all happening i turned SSH off on the firewalls (one command,
| or a couple of clicks, depending on your taste) for the brief period of time
| between the announcement and the time the patches trickled down the pipe.
| once that happened i flicked SSH back on.
|
| so i haven't been worried at all about the security of my systems over these
| issues. and that's a priceless peace of mind and reliability i just don't get
| with closed source software
| =====
|
| --
| Aaron J. Seigo
| GPG Fingerprint: 8B8B 2209 0C6F 7C47 B1EA  EE75 D6B7 2EB1 A7F1 DB43
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/dGD7LeoSBberRbgRAocYAKCmbcHiJUb1JDpsJfTT9XKnaYjAdgCfQY57
n3CE7ttucbrWfsA0SdUcHAs=
=5K8a
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Reply via email to