I have to laugh. I just read through their Software Engineer application (you can see their applications at http://www.premier-gps.com/download_forms.htm). They ask about training, including military training, but only give you 4 lines to enter the details. If I were to list ALL the military training I received in 8 years, I would need 2 or 3 pieces of full scap. Hell, my training/employment record for the army filled some 50 odd pages, with one item per line... Not to mention at least 8 or 9 violations of the guide that Dave posted - and I have seen the alberta version of this guide - it's pretty much the same. I can't wait until Marcel picks up on this thread.... <evil grins>
On a more serious note... It looks as though they are trying to do an interview via their application. My response would be to submit a resume, and tell them that if they want to know more, call me and set up an in-person interview/meeting. I fully understand that a person has to be assessed for their skill and aptitude, but also to see if they will "fit in" with the team. However, this assessment CANNOT happen on paper - not if you have any hope of doing a proper assessement. I could be very well trained yet still be a complete moron who hasn't bathed in 3 years and has absolutely no social skills. This paper interview would only see that I am well trained, so would indicate I would be a good candidate. However, I've seen people with little training, and only worked for one company (but for a number of years) who were absolute geniuses. This paper interview would disqualify these people because their true skills cannot be assessed. Nope, it would be MUCH easier to simply ask for resumes, filter out the ones that don't meet the requirements such as lack of experience or skill - or even based on improper conditions like "is it a girls name?" or "the name is Bindu, so they must be from the middle east" - yes improper, but at least with this method there can be no question of WHY the resume was ommitted - unless they make their prejudice public. (personally I would question ANY company that employed improper conditions like this). Filtering through resume's does take a bit more effort, but can be done very quickly to get to the ones of interest. A paper interview like this is someone's idea of "saving time", but the idea is very misplaced. My thoughts, not yours.... Shawn -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave Watkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:42 AM To: 'CLUG General' Subject: RE: [clug-talk] IT jobs board Evening All, There are few things in this world that rub me the wrong way. This is one of them! The following is a copy of an email sent to Premier-GPS tonight along with various links to the Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship Commission. Perhaps with a little prodding these folks might just bring their company into the eighties. Dave Watkins, President, Abacus Technologies To Whom It May Concern, Having reviewed the attached job application and reviewed others similar to this on your web site I must strongly protest the questions and information you are demanding from potential employees. I was appalled at the amount of inappropriate information that you expect applicants to provide you. I also feel that demanding that an applicant agree to spend one week of unpaid time while being evaluated reflects very poorly on the image portrayed by your company and says volumes about the quality of your recruiters. In my opinion, it is quite clear by looking at this document that you really should be investing your dollars and energies in hiring competent individuals to staff your Human Resourced department. I can assure you that neither I nor any of my associates will be seeking employment within your organization until your hiring/recruiting practices come more in line with today's acceptable Canadian business standards. Should you wish to be considered as an employer appropriate for us please resubmit samples of your amended application forms for our review. I have included a brief comment which, while it originates in Ontario the principals in law are similar throughout Canada. I have also included links to relevant Alberta sites and Cc'd the Alberta Human Rights and Citizenship Commission. Perhaps you should take advantage of the various courses they offer Albertans. Yours truly, Dave Watkins President Abacus Technologies Calgary, Alberta, Canada Voice: 403-701-5746 Fax: 403-266-0626 E-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] QUESTION: What questions may employers not ask in an application? ANSWER: Questions on a job application which have the effect of obtaining irrelevant personal information must be avoided by employers. However, if the employer can establish that a particular piece of information on the application is related to legitimate requirements or qualifications for the position, the question may be allowed. It is not appropriate to include on job applications any questions relating directly or indirectly to the following: race, ancestry, place of origin, colour, ethnic origin, citizenship, creed, sex, sexual orientation, record of offences, marital status, family status or handicap/disability. Specifically: Race or Colour - There are no permissible questions in relation to race or colour. Questions which request information about physical characteristics such as colour of eyes, hair, height, or weight, or requests for photographs, are strictly prohibited. Creed - There are no permissible questions in relation to creed. Questions as to religious affiliation, churches attended, religious holidays, customs observed, willingness to work on a specific day which may conflict with requirements of a certain faith, are strictly prohibited. Citizenship, Place of Origin, and Ethnic Origin - The only permissible question in relation to these factors is one asking if the applicant is legally entitled to work in Canada. Questions about Canadian citizenship, landed immigrant status, permanent residency, naturalization, and any requests for Social Insurance Numbers are all strictly prohibited. (Note: A social insurance number may have information about one's place of origin or citizenship status. A S.I.N. may be requested following a conditional offer of employment). Questions as to membership in organizations which are identified by a prohibited ground, and questions inquiring as to the name and location of schools attended, are also strictly prohibited. Sex - There are no permissible questions here. Categories on applications or questions such as maiden or birth name, Mr., Mrs., Miss., Ms., and any questions asking about the applicant's relationship with the person to be notified in case of emergency or an insurance beneficiary, are all prohibited. Sexual Orientation - There are no permissible questions here. Categories on the application or questions asking whether or not the applicant is married, divorced, in a common-law relationship, single or separated; any information about the applicant's spouse; and any questions asking about the applicant's relationship with the person to be notified in case of emergency or an insurance beneficiary, are all prohibited. Marital Status and Family Status - There are no permissible questions here. Categories on applications such as married, divorced, common-law relationship, single, separated; maiden or birth name; Mr., Mrs., Miss., Ms.; children or dependants; child care arrangements; information about a spouse or a second income; and questions concerning the applicant's relationship with the person to be notified in case of emergency or an insurance beneficiary, are all strictly prohibited. Record of Offences - Basically, the only permissible question here is one that asks if the applicant has ever been convicted of a criminal offence for which a pardon has not been granted. Questions may also be asked, where relevant, to determine if the applicant is bondable. Questions as to whether an applicant has ever been convicted of an offence; has ever spent time in jail; has ever been convicted under a provincial statute or been convicted of an offence for which a pardon has been granted, are all strictly prohibited. Age - Basically, the only permissible question here is one asking if the person is 18 years of age or older and less than 65 years of age. Questions as to age, date of birth, or requests for birth or baptismal records, or other documents such as a driver's licence, or educational transcripts which indicate age, are all prohibited. Disability - There are no permissible questions here. Questions about health, handicaps, illnesses, physical or mental defects or any similar questions, are prohibited. Note that any request for a copy of a driver's licence on an application is prohibited because it may eliminate or screen out applicants with disabilities, and it allows use of the licence to determine age. Such a request can however be made after a conditional offer of employment. The Ontario Human Rights Commission assists employers by reviewing their applications before they are used to determine whether they comply with human rights legislation. Employers who receive approval from the Ontario Human Rights Commission are entitled to note this at the bottom of the application form. Citation/References: Ontario Human Rights Code R.S.O. 1990, c. H. 19, s. 5(1), 23(2). _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca
