Aaron J. Seigo wrote:
I was thinking in more general terms. If one of a programs jobs is to be secure, and that security is reliable, then its doing that job.-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On May 21, 2004 11:18, Rob Stallard wrote:
I know this is a question most foul, asking about C# in this list butI was thinking that the general underlying attitudes, one sidedness and
I need some help and google isnât
fears in the linux communities that prompted the first eight words in
the above sentence are most foul.
- given the origin of C#, it's a topic that not everyone is keen on
- given the limited (but thankfully growing) support for C# on Free platforms, it's a topic that is of correspondingly limited relevance here (though growing in relevance)
- the Linux communities are made of human beings. the rules of engagement are different, but the people are the same as anywhere else. adjust expectations accordingly ;-)
I think a more relevant question is:
Does it do its job with enough consistency to be reliable?
this should not be a primary question, for if it is we begin to passively trade our freedoms and rights away rather than put ourselves in positions where we need to create things that are both Free and Good Enough.
on the topic of C#, there are Free toolchains available, so it really isn't a huge issue. ... until we start down the win32-only C# libs =)
If a programs job is to make toast, and it does it reliably, then its doing its job.
Mmmm.... secure toast...
I think that the biggest roadblock to people that want to use linux but dont know how, is that the people that do know how
often have attitudes and biases that prevent an active and open sharing
of knowledge.
elaborate?
Perhaps i'm just venting on an old experience here. Darn IRC.
I find it odd that the most "open" collection of communities on the planet can be very closed when it comes to helping
people discover and use linux.
- there are time issues.
- there are energy issues.
- see my earlier comment about humans being humans.
- it's also a two sided coin, with people new to these communities often "walking on the daises to make it to the front door". this is usually unintentional, but it can be prevented with but a minute or two's forethought. all communities have cultures that embody expectations and customs; to truly engage a community one needs to be at least somewhat familiar with the culture (at which point many behavious perceived to be negative suddenly make sense or even just disapear)
- many new users wish to take, take, take. this is to be expected to some degree since the amount of information / experience they need versus what they have is unballanced at the beginning, but i find many complain about the free-as-in-beer aspects of the community not delivering without realizing that free-as-in-beer actually means "we have other means of compensation". this community is about participation and exploration. those who do neither often wonder why they don't reap the rewards. - fortunately, there are those more than happy to trade money for similar ends if participation, exploration and cultural engagement are not within one's scope.
This is something i had not thought about.
I found it somewhat intimidating to come to my first clug meeting. I'd
It seemed somewhat cliquey. i do not know if this was intended or not. No one seemed particularily welcoming, perhaps it was
new things often are... =/ hopefully it wasn't any more intimidating than necessary. it would be interesting to hear exactly how it was intimidating for you ....
a tendency to let lurkers lurk. *shrug* It felt somewhat alien and yet comfortable at the same time to sit and listen to the meeting.
Actually, i find that my linux advocacy skills are lacking, as i have yet to elicit interest in linux in anyone i've talked to about it.guess that there are lots of people that want to use linux, but are not,
because of the intimidation factor.
to put the shoe on the foot it belongs on: what are/can you do about this?
I've found that among windows users, there seems to be occasional recurring references to linux horror stories. I've thought about handing out burned
copies of knoppix, but i think that may just add more to the confusion.
I certainly found elitism lacking at the meeting, and on the list. Perhaps I am giving too much weight to an old experience i had on an IRC channel when i was firstPersonally, i'm sick of the elitism and just want to learn and do cool
things with computers, no matter what OS is currently running.
elitism is a loaded word. it assuredly exists, but i also hear that word bandied about in the face of well reasoned and informed opinions that do not meet the preconceived expectations of the listener ...
what elitism did you perceive at the CLUG meeting? or on this list? or elsewhere in the community with which you have been exposed to? specifics can be quite useful =)
exploring linux years ago.There seemed to be an attitude of: if you dont already know, we're not going to tell you. This is certainly disconcerting to newbies.
I certainly hope the weather clears up soon. i'm getting tired of the sun/rain/snow cycles and the pent up energy that comes along with it.
ciao.
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