-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kin C Wong wrote: > Really good points on security -- had not thought it through. It is the > concept that is appealing rather than then the mechanisms in which they > are implemented that is attractive.
Often security comes at the cost of usability, in which case I have no problem erring on the side of security. Choosing the other path has lead to the computing mess that most people now face (trojans, Identity theft, bot nets, commercialized virus production etc.). > > With regards to repositories, I am unfamiliar with Mandriva, but even in > Ubuntu, you need to manually add in a repository if an application that > you want has not been included in the standard repositories in the > sources.list file. While you do have the benefit of security, it is > just one more stumbling block to a novice user. > These repositories exist for a reason. The default package list is merely that which has been tested and known to work really well. It is also the only packages that you can buy support from Canonical for. The other packages are not targeted at novice users. CNR will do very little for this. The only real advantage is proprietary software (Star Office is an example) and binary drivers (which are a really bad idea anyway, they are just currently a necessary evil). While I don't have a problem with proprietary software (I do buy software for which there is no FLOSS equivalent, and even then my working DAW is still partially Windows based, which means I still have expensive proprietary packages that I paid for), I do have a problem with binary drivers. Making this garbage easier to install is not in our (FLOSS) best interest. I realize that it is a bit of a chicken and the egg problem; without a larger market share we cannot properly pressure hardware manufacturers, without better drivers we cannot gain better market share. Only time will tell, but I believe that Intel's decisions to: a) rejoin the high performance video market b) release OSS drivers concurrently with their hardware may provide some momentum to enable FLOSS to get as far away from binary blobs as possible. If Intel gains market share at nVidia's and ATI/AMD's expense, then I am fairly confidant that we will see a reversal in their policies. In North America nothing motivates more than losing money to a competitor. I am already not really thrilled with current state of the union in this regard (ie. we may have already sold Linux's soul to the devil). > My hopes would be that as Ubuntu adopts the notion of CNR, that they > would maintain the quality control of ensuring appropriate security > issues are addressed. The wrappers yum and apt-get certainly has made > things easier for users -- I'm just look forward to the next generation > of improvements. Maybe I don't get it (certainly possible if not likely), but what is the problem that needs to be solved? There are already GUI installers that are more than capable. Adept in particular needs to sound less tech like (the word tag should not be in the UI, just my thoughts) but I am not sure we need a new generation of installers, just more polish on the ones we have (the GUI ones in particular, aptitude and apt-get are already fantastic and mature for the CLI inclined). > bogi wrote: >> as long as the comparison is a pre-installed windows, and an install system >> for applications that requires 2 clicks, than yes, linux is difficult. The >> moment you look at the actual price of that easiness, and i know, from fud, >> that free software is really not free, but from the prospective of security >> and system stability, than you see that that kind of easiness may not be so >> desireable after all. CNR is as close as you can get to what windows does >> for >> installation, it will potentially open a lot of opportunity to Trojans and >> viruses and malware to find a foothold in a linux system, unless the >> security >> issues regarding who can install what on the system and from where and under >> what conditions, it will remain a not very good idea. >> In this regard, if you look at say the mandrive system, it takes 3 clicks to >> configure the repositories, and a 2-3 clicks to find and install the >> applications you want, and yes, you have to supply a root password to do >> that. These packages would ultimately be properly checked, vetted, signed, >> checksummed, etc... and would only come from appropriate repositories that >> are well maintained and guarded. In this respect, CNR is actually a lot >> better, but than , it is not unique any more, and the functionality is >> available in most modern package management systems like urpmi, smart, and >> the apt-get .... cant remember the gui name to name a few well developed >> package management systems, ah, yes, yum and kyum would also qualify for a >> clik and install type system. Now, if you count that the package name is >> called koffice or open-office and not word of ms-office , than yes, even is >> we achieve the best installation system, we still have to blitz the tv and >> the radio to tell people what the program names are, so they would go and >> install them, some of these things we do as a lug ... >> >> Phew, that is a long one. >> >> >> Cheers >> Szemir >> >> >> On February 8, 2007 11:43, Kin C Wong wrote: >> >>> Programming a vcr is simple as well but how many people do you know that >>> have time display flashing time (I know I'd dating my self here). To >>> have more people adopt Linux it has to be as easy to install as Windoze >>> and it still has a ways to go. >>> >>> Anyways, I see it as anything that fuels the momentum will keep us >>> pointy ears gainfully employed ;-) . >>> >>> Mitchell Brown wrote: >>> >>>> Really.... hmm. I can see this turning really bad, really quickly. >>>> >>>> How is .deb not easy? In Ubuntu, you just double click and voila. >>>> Simple as pie. >>>> >>>> On 2/8/07, * Kin C Wong* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> They are trying to swap core competencies -- this should be >>>> interesting, >>>> the popularity of Ubuntu and the easy of use of CNR (click and >>>> run) from >>>> Linspire. Here is an excerpt from the letter: >>>> "There are two main components to this partnership: 1) Linspire will >>>> immediately transition from Debian to Ubuntu as the base for their >>>> Linspire and Freespire operating systems, and 2) Canonical will >>>> utilize >>>> Linspire's CNR technology for aspects of Ubuntu's software >>>> delivery system" >>>> >>>> Here is the link ://www.linspire.com/linspire_letter.php >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> clug-talk mailing list >>>> [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca >>>> Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) >>>> **Please remove these lines when replying >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Mitchell Brown >>>> Administrator >>>> untitled1.ca <http://untitled1.ca> >>>> >>>> V: 403.466.6242 >>>> E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> W: http://www.untitled1.ca >>>> SIP: **010666242 >>>> MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>> >>>> pub 1024D/9091C422 02/05/2006 Mitchell Brown < [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>>> Primary key fingerprint: 812B 94BC EA0D 345A CC1C 2ED9 F7F6 5CCF >>>> 9091 C422 >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> clug-talk mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca >>>> Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) >>>> **Please remove these lines when replying >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> clug-talk mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca >>> Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) >>> **Please remove these lines when replying >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> clug-talk mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca >> Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) >> **Please remove these lines when replying >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > clug-talk mailing list > [email protected] > http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca > Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) > **Please remove these lines when replying -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFy5T+wRXgH3rKGfMRAoMlAJ40x6lp7cEaAsYLGfacoFIcOvzXKQCfb4iY wpG05vs5SLXPVoHVi0i88lU= =36NM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ clug-talk mailing list [email protected] http://clug.ca/mailman/listinfo/clug-talk_clug.ca Mailing List Guidelines (http://clug.ca/ml_guidelines.php) **Please remove these lines when replying
