RE: Counting "outside" therapy minutes

[Nathan Lake]

Title: Message

While I am not certain of the answer to this question (RAI manual not withstanding), I would like to know who paid for the Barium swallow? If the hospital billed Medicare under Part B, and you count those minutes on the MDS for Part A, that seems like a form of double dipping to me. That situation would be particularly ripe for abuse if the nursing home were hospital owned.   Did your facility pay for the test?   Nathan -----Original Message----- From: Jane Craven [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Counting "outside" therapy minutes You are correct.  The resident was in a Medicare A stay at the time of the Barium Swallow.  If the resident had received the Barium Swallow prior to coming to the SNF, the minutes would not have counted.   Jane Craven, RN, C. Sr. Consultant, Nursing Services Tendercare (Michigan) Inc.   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 3:38 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Counting "outside" therapy minutes   This is incorrect.  All therapy minutes delivered after admission to the SNF may be included as long as they were ordered by a physician, performed by a qualified therapist, and were medically necessary.  According to page 3-185 of the RAI User's Manual, "The therapy treatment may occur either inside or outside the facility." Rena Rena R. Shephard, MHA, RN, FACDONA, RAC-C Chair, American Association of Nurse Assessment Coordinators [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subj: RE: Counting "outside" therapy minutes Date: 12/17/03 12:25:18 PM Pacific Standard Time From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent from the Internet No.  No therapy minutes from the hospital stay may be used.  This is in the PPS Final Rules; look on page 41661 of the July 30, 1999 Federal Register-line 12 of the 1st column on this page begins:  "In addition to the issues discussed...".  You will note the eval of the resident's need for therapy must begin in the SNF not in the hospital.   Jane Craven, RN, C. Sr. Consultant, Nursing Services Tendercare (Michigan) Inc.   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Holly Sox, RN, RAC-C Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:15 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Counting "outside" therapy minutes   Hi Group, I have a question to relay from an email-impaired friend.   When a Med A resident is sent out to the hospital for modified barium swallow, and returns with documentation of the minutes provided by the SLP doing the study, can these minutes be counted on the MDS?   Thanks!   Holly F. Sox, RN, RAC-C Clinical Editor www.careplans.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]