My sentiments exactly. I know these are regs and not guidelines but if that
is the worse thing that can be found..well not bad. certainly  a survey at
all to see if there are trends deems a looks. I guess the question is was
there a danger to the Rt.?

-----Original Message-----
From: Edelman-Geurtz, Nadine [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 1:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house



I would take this kind of rubbish, haggling over a reference date, as a sign
that the surveyors had NOTHING else to look at.  These surveyors aare
getting ridiculous.  How about looking at the patient outcomes,rather than
the mineuta (did I spell that right ?) of the paperwork.

Original Message-----

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McGrath, Christine 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:58 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 


Our Administrator spoke with the team leader.....we will not receive a
finding on it...but they wanted us to be aware 'for next year'. Hopefully
CMS will have this clarified before the next leap year!!!!...thanks for all
your help

-----Original Message----- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pam Campbell 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 12:37 PM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 


I've found that sometimes it helps to "reframe" those challenges.  Instead
of trying to "dis-prove" the validity of their request, why not ask them to
provide you with the regulatory requirements that support their request.
"... I always learn a lot when you visit my facility and I appreciate that
opportunity.  When we learn of a regulatory requirement that we may not have
interpreted "correctly" it is very helpful to me to have that regulatory
documentation available so that I can use it in my inservice education...."
It then puts the "burden of proof" on them instead of you.  Of course you
wouldn't want to use that verbiage, but you get the idea... Keep it
friendly, and non-confrontational. But you're right in challenging them
while in your building.  If they persist.  Then IDR.

-----Original Message----- 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michelle Witges 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 11:21 AM 
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Subject: Re: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 


I agree.  Just because they "want" something does not mean that it is a
requirement.  I would kindly explain to them that it does not state anywhere
in the regulations that the R2b has to be 2 days before the Vb2.  If they do
cite you, wait till you get the paper to write a plan of correction and if
it is still written as a tag I would IDR. Michelle

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "carol maher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:39 AM 
Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 


> I would show them pages 2-6 and 2-21 and 2-22 of the manual.  It 
> states 
that facilities have 366 days from Vb2-Vb2 and 92 days from the R2b of last
quarterly to R2b of annual.  There is no regulation that states the R2b must
be 2 days before the Vb2 so you will not be able to show them anything that
states that specifically.  I am guessing that the presenter at the
conference they attended used an example to show the R2b a different day
than the Vb2 so they believe that it is a requirement.  Can you download all
of chapter 2 of the manual for them?

> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: "McGrath, Christine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: May 7, 2004 7:48 AM 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> 
> They want to the see the R2b dates to be within 364 days of each 
> other, 
and the V2 dates to be within 366 days......we had scheduled them both (R2
and V2) for 365 days....they say that is how they were trained.......

> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
> Michelle Witges 
> Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 10:28 AM 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> 
> 
> Am I missing something here?  Your Vb2 date has to be on or after the 
> R2b, correct?  So if your Vb2 date is within the 366 days, wouldn't 
> your R2b also? Michelle 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "McGrath, Christine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 12:22 PM 
> Subject: RE: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> 
> 
> > Thanks...we have shown them stuff from the MDS manual and the pink 
> Surveyor's guide....It doesn't specifically mention the R2b dates can 
> be 
366 
> days apart, only refers to the the V2b.....so far, she's not accepting 
> it....but.....survey's not over yet.....keeping my fingers 
> crossed.....thanks for the help 
> > 
> > -----Original Message----- 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
> > Donna Mateyka 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 1:15 PM 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> > 
> > 
> > Take out the manual and point to the directions. I had to do that 
> > for a surveyor questioning coding on siderails. Be nice when you do 
> > point out something from the manual. : - ) We just had survey and 
> > the team leader said that they don't have the "updated" manuals 
> > because the department of health did not buy them! I 
> said, 
> > you can download it and all updates from the internet. She said she 
hates 
> to 
> > use the computer!!!!! 
> > They are surveying us! Good luck, keep smiling. Donna 
> > 
> > 
> > >From: "Holly Sox, RN, RAC-C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > >Subject: Re: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> > >Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:01:30 -0400 
> > > 
> > >Info needed - quick...surveyors in houseYes, but remember 2004 is a 
leap 
> > >year.  You have to figure in 2/29, which would make it one day 
> > >earlier 
> than 
> > >expected. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >Holly F. Sox, RN, RAC-C 
> > >Clinical Editor 
> > > 
> > >  <file://www.careplans.com> www.careplans.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > 
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: McGrath, Christine 
> > >   To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > >   Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 10:49 AM 
> > >   Subject: Info needed - quick...surveyors in house 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   Hi.....surveyor asked a question - annual MDS with R2b date of 
5/7/03. 
> > >When is the next R2b due, 5/6/04 or 5/7? please respond 
> > >quickly.....i 
> know 
> > >it can be 366 days between V2b dates.....does that also hold true 
> > >for 
the 
> > >R2b dates?....thanks 
> > > 
> > > 
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Be sure to visit the AANAC website. Accurate answers to your 
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 American Association of Nurse Assessment Coordinators 
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Be sure to visit the AANAC website. Accurate answers to your 
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