Hi,
I agree, Doug ( Burtner ) is a nice guy to deal with, he knows his stuff.. I
recently ( 1 week ago ) asked for a quote, a 150% genoa for my 27 :
We also have a new FLEX Technora Cruising Laminate that we can now build
as a Cross Cut Sail. Many racing customers are using this with great
results. First Overall at Levels IRC Regatta in Youngstown. Also 1st
overall in PHRF and IRC at the LYRA Regatta in Oswego this year.
A 180% is a rare request for a
Genoa. I have heard of 170%'s before that sheet to the stern, but when
talking about a 180% that is usually in reference to a spinnaker? For
now I have quoted the 150 below:
150% Furling Genoa's for C&C 27-III with 15% off discount applied (ends
Mid-November)
Cross Cut Dacron $1840
Cross Cut FLEX Laminate $2338
Triradial Pentex $2870
with UV Covers, reefing Patches and foam luff.
They don't really build from Pentex anymore ( they would order it if I insist
), they have been testing FLEX in the field fome several years and are going
this route. They also don't need to build tri-radial with FLEX, the tension
points are already adressed with this multi fiber-oriented material so you get
the savings that comes with a cross-cut.
Sylvain
C&C27 MkIII
Lake Champlain
________________________________
From: Sébastien Lemieux <s.lemi...@umontreal.ca>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2012 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: Stus-List New sail purchase
Hello Bev,
I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've
obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some
less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size to
go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially weekend
cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our boat is a
C&C 30-mk2 of 1987.
I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my decision
yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each:
1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft.
Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there are
differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather thin 5
oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor using the
spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more durable and more
forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so far, first boat).
Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the cloth, usually with a
price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the conclusion that this
upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape for longer in higher
winds).
2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or
North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the
cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be as
(if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we
received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or
adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut.
3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a
laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are
aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant:
http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It
is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a weaved
taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail to be made
using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a quote from
Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the classic
dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it seems that
with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the durability
increases.
The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in
verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been
with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has
provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I
could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite
disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very
verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't
have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut).
Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail
cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) and
Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to be
fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about 2x the
price of a classic dacron sail from other
sailmakers). Although I haven't investigated them much because of budget
constraints, it seems like the type of sails I'd consider if I was to leave for
a multi-year cruise.
In my case, although I've been putting emphasize on durability, I've realized
that we put fairly little hours of use on our sails per year (short sailing
season, family+work schedule, etc.). I'm currently leaning toward going with
the cruising laminate cross-cut proposed by Haarstick. The fact that the
high-tech fabric allows a less labor intensive construction (cross-cut) means
less incentive to export labor offshore, I put some "morale" value into that!
For the local lofts, they proposed to come to our boat and take measurements.
In all other case, they propose to send all necessary info so I can take the
measurements myself. Some mentioned that I should complement the measurements
with large amounts of digital photos to fully document the rig and make sure
that there is no misunderstanding of which measures are which. I'm fairly
confident that this is the way to go.
Feel free to contact me off the list if you would like to discuss the specific
details of the quotes I've received, I'd be happy to share them if it can help
you with your decision!
Sébastien Lemieux
Merlot X - C&C 30 mk2 1987
Mooney Bay - Lake Champlain
On Oct 11, 2012, at 12:53, broo...@aol.com wrote:
> Hello listers,
> Bob Morgan and I have been mostly lurking on the list for the last few
> months, although we have had a few postings. We bought a C&C 37 (Bob's 5th
> C&C) one year ago and just discovered the list a few months ago. After
> following all the conversations for the last few months we now want to take
> advantage of all the knowledge that is out there. We had thought maybe we
> could get away with having our sails inspected and some repairs done this
> winter but now that we have taken them down and had a closer look we realized
> that was overly optimistic. I would like to ask what recommendations you can
> make for new sail purchases. We would appreciate your thoughts about
> everything - sailmakers, type of fabric, battens, measuring. We are
> currently weekend cruisers with no thoughts of racing. At this point we are
> planning on a new main and a furling genoa - 130%. What sailmakers do you
> recommend? What are the important questions to ask the
sailmakers? What are your preferences for main sail reefing? (Not mast or
boom furling.)I think we currently have one line slab reefing. Are there
standard measurements for a C&C 37? Do we really need to be measured. Is
this a subject that has been covered recently? If so, is there a way I can
find it in the archives?
> Thanks everyone.
> By the way, I still have pictures from the Mystic Rendevous that I would like
> to post. I just haven't had time to figure out how to get them on Photo
> Bucket or Picasa or ?. It's a bummer when your working life interferes with
> your sailing life. And you are too old to remember how you posted them the
> last time.
> Bev Genader
> Quicksea - C&C 37 - Little Sodus Bay Lake Ontario.
> _______________________________________________
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