Thanks for your comment Ron, I've investigated a bit more the proposed dacron. Here's what I got.
The cloth quoted by Haarstick as VF dacron is High Aspect Fiber 104 from Challenge Sailcloth. Challenge website indicates: "They use the highest count of the finest yarns. Such fine weaves have more yarn crossings than coarser fabrics, resulting in better bias strength and durability." Regarding the finish, they say: "The fabric is heat-set several times, methodically shrunk at high temperature to again tighten the weave, prefatigued, and calendered at high tonnage to further stabilize the bias." Specs for this cloth can be found here: http://www.challengesailcloth.com/ha104/ha104.htm From this description, it doesn't seem that extra resin is used for increasing smoothness and stiffness. Sébastien Lemieux Merlot X - C&C 30 mk2 1987 Mooney Bay - Lake Champlain On Oct 18, 2012, at 11:44, Ronald B. Frerker wrote: > Before the newer materials came out, the racing sails used to be impregnated > with a resin filler to make the surface smoother and less stretchy. Of > course this resin degraded and the sail became soft and didn't hold shape > upwind well. > For cruisers who wanted a more durable sail, but not quite as good for > racing, they made a cruising cloth with a tighter weave. It was more > expensive, but it would last quite a bit longer. > I mention this because your number one item listed sounds like this type of > design, with resin as a stiffener. I don't believe it will make it last > longer if it's that old style, just faster while the resin is still working. > Ron > Wild Cheri > C&C 30 > STL > > > --- On Wed, 10/17/12, Sébastien Lemieux <s.lemi...@umontreal.ca> wrote: > > From: Sébastien Lemieux <s.lemi...@umontreal.ca> > Subject: Re: Stus-List New sail purchase > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com > Date: Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 8:00 AM > > Hello Bev, > > I am currently going through the same process for my furling genoa. I've > obtained quotes and been discussing with quite a few lofts (some local, some > less locals). I've come to the conclusion that a 135% would be a good size > to go with (we have a 100% jib and an asym spi). We also do essentially > weekend cruising with quite a few day sails, no racing on the horizon. Our > boat is a C&C 30-mk2 of 1987. > > I have been considering three sail types and I haven't finalized my > decision yet, so I'll throw in the arguments I have for each: > > 1) A classic cross-cut dacron sail. The least expensive option at each loft. > Prices can vary from loft to loft but if more than 5% variation, then there > are differences in the construction. Some lofts would suggest using rather > thin 5 oz. cloths, most preferred to go with 7-7.3 oz since we would favor > using the spi when going with the wind and a heavier cloth would be more > durable and more forgiving for the beginners we are (3 years with the boat so > far, first boat). Some lofts offer different levels of "firmness" of the > cloth, usually with a price premium (around 10% extra) and I've come to the > conclusion that this upgrade makes sense (the sail should hold better shape > for longer in higher winds). > > 2) A tri-radial design using fill-oriented dacron (UK Halsey warp drive or > North Radian). From the quotes we have, price is about 30% more than for the > cross cut dacron. The sail should hold its shape much better and should be > as (if not more) durable than the classic cross-cut. The sails for which we > received quotes where all made in Asia. North said that any repairs or > adjustments need to be done at their headquarter in Connecticut. > > 3) A cross-cut sail using cruising oriented laminates. Here the cloth is a > laminate that includes fibers supporting the loads in directions that are > aligned with tensions applied on a sail (see pdf brochure from Polyant: > http://www.dimension-polyant.com/en/pdf/DP_Flex_Polyester_Cruise_E.pdf ). It > is called a cruising laminate because it is protected on both side by a > weaved taffeta that protects the laminate from chafe. This allows the sail > to be made using the less labor intensive cross cut construction. I have a > quote from Haarstick (Rochester, NY) that comes up to about 25% more than the > classic dacron cross-cut. The sail should hold much better shape and it > seems that with each new generation of laminates designed for cruising, the > durability increases. > > The level of discussion I had with each sailmaker varies a lot (both in > verbosity and quality). The most informative discussions I've had has been > with Haarstick ( http://www.haarsticksailmakers.com ) where Doug Burtner has > provided a lot of great info, was prompt to reply and everything he wrote I > could confirm with further research. Two local lofts I contacted were quite > disappointing (Evolution sails never sent back a quote, North rep. was very > verbose [on the phone] but not so informative and I've found that they don't > have any loft and would do all repairs and modifications in Connecticut). > Among the various sailmakers I've contacted, two have confirmed that the sail > cut and construction would not be sent off shore: Haarstick (Rochester, NY) > and Port Townsend sails (near Seattle, WA). The sails from PT sails seem to > be fantastic classic cruising sails but they are extremely expensive (about > 2x the price of a classic dacron sail from other sailmakers). Although I > haven't investigated them much because of budget constraints, it seems like > the type of sails I'd consider if I was to leave for a multi-year cruise. > > In my case, although I've been putting emphasize on durability, I've realized > that we put fairly little hours of use on our sails per year (short sailing > season, family+work schedule, etc.). I'm currently leaning toward going with > the cruising laminate cross-cut proposed by Haarstick. The fact that the > high-tech fabric allows a less labor intensive construction (cross-cut) means > less incentive to export labor offshore, I put some "morale" value into that! > > For the local lofts, they proposed to come to our boat and take measurements. > In all other case, they propose to send all necessary info so I can take the > measurements myself. Some mentioned that I should complement the > measurements with large amounts of digital photos to fully document the rig > and make sure that there is no misunderstanding of which measures are which. > I'm fairly confident that this is the way to go. > > Feel free to contact me off the list if you would like to discuss the > specific details of the quotes I've received, I'd be happy to share them if > it can help you with your decision! > > > _______________________________________________ > This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album > http://www.cncphotoalbum.com > CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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