Hi All,
I recently re-did my battery and switch set up in Gabriela (just this last week as a matter of fact) During the sea trials of purchasing the boat, I did something stupid (which I am prone to do), I didn t really study the electrics. I tested the lights, instruments, started the boat, looked at the meters, etc. Everything worked. So I figured it was ok I even went to the trouble to open the battery compartment (in Gabriela its under the after quarterberth) and saw there were battery boxes with wires coming and going, and it was dry. So I didnt pay attention to much else. I figured if it started and everything lit up, it was at least 50% ok. It was 50% ok. Gabriela had two batteries an inverter, a permanently mounted battery charger, and a standard C&C electrical panel that looks like it was redone (and redone very well) in the late 1990s judging by the fuses/breakers/wiring. All of that part is clean and easy to understand, well ran etc. The hassle came from the 1-both-2 switch, the charger, and the batteries (and the regulator and the ammeter for the alternator/generator). My first clue that something wasnt right was when I went out to the boat last week for a sail, and the engine wouldnt start. First time in the year and a half I have had any problem with the 650 hour Yanmar 30hp. So, first thing I did was read this forum.. thought maybe the starting switch was bad, because all the lights came on inside and all the warning buzzers for low oil pressure were working. I had power right? Wrong turns out it was maybe an amp or two So then I thought, maybe the batteries are dead so I checked all charging stuff and it was trickle charging right on plan or maybe it wasnt. So then I cleared all the crap off the quarter berth, and opened the battery boxes. Then I noticed something All those wires I had glanced at during sea trials basically ran to one battery. There are two batteries as I mentioned. Both have nice labels on the battery box one said House the other said Start. The house battery had 4 wires attached. Total. One set went to the trickle charger, and the other to the volt meter (on the B side ) on the electrical panel and nothing else. So essentially the House Battery was connected only to the charger, and the battery meter on the electrical panel. The Start battery didnt connect to the charger at all. It had 12 wires ran to it. 6 on each post of the battery. They all went to the electrical panel, ammeter, volt meter (A side), and to the back up bilge pump. except for one set that went over to the propane solenoid. :) The inverter (which I never used) was disconnected, but the cables were left dangling in the same box as the House battery so it just looked like it was connected . Essentially everything was running off the Start battery, including the house functions. The batteries themselves were BOTH Marine Deep Cycle batteries. Wet-cell batteries, that apparently had never been checked (even by me!). The starter battery had enough power in it to light the new LED lights I had put in to replace ALL the lights on the boat (including the masthead, running, anchor, and everything in the cabin) and the radio, and the GPS/CHartPlotter But it wouldnt turn over the engine. The ammeter for the alternator was directly connected to the battery and the ignition switch so that whenever you turned the key, the ammeter looked like it was charging at about 13.2v (something I hadnt noticed because on Gabriela, the ammeter is in the cabin, not where the ignition controls are ), when in fact it was just showing what the battery charge was. There was ONE SIDE of the 1-Both-2 switch wired in but it was wired to BOTH SIDES of the 1-Both-2 switch with a little jumper so that if you switched between 1 and 2 it looked like the House battery was kicked in But essentially, the whole boat was running off the Start battery. Ugh. The worst was yet to come (and all this is my stupid fault) I disconnected everything and started tracing cables/wires and left the charger on the house battery and jumpered over to the start battery to see if I could charge the batteries tested it a few hours later, and there was not enough charge to turn over the engine. So, I opened the tops of the batteries there was maybe a ¼ of electrolyte in the bottom of each cell And they were just cheapo Wal-Mart deep cycle RV batteries. Both batteries were ruined. So I got online, started looking for batteries that may be available in my area (Middle of nowhere Washington State) no Rolls batteries to be had --- they needed to be ordered if I wanted those so there was basically nothing. So I started reading about suitable alternatives Found the Optima AGM starting and deep cycle batteries locally. Bought a hefty one for the house and a mid-range one for the start I checked to make sure the charger type was set properly for AGM batteries and it was. Then, I re-ran all the house cables to the house battery, rewired the charger and invert to the house, and rewired the ammeter to the alternator instead of the battery and switch for the ignition. Then I re-wired /installed a VSR so there was an automatic switch between the batteries no more worry about the switch getting turned wrong. That all took about 9 hours of actual work time. The electrics seem to work better (or that is what I have convinced myself of ) why? Because we dont have brown outs during starting (I wondered why that was!), and the LED changeover I did a few months ago draws far less off the house battery than all the other conventional bulbs .Plus I know where ALL the circuits are on the boat now. The only new working piece that was added was to rewire the inverter, but it seems to have a normal draw (its a 700 watt and can power the LCD TV I have in the cabin), without a terrible drain (but yes there is a drain) on the House battery Now to hook up the solar panel :) JP S/V Gabriela Clarkston Wa. From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 6:02 AM To: Rick Brass; C&C List Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Batteries I found my reference and provided a link. It also shows the "better way" for a 1-ALL-2 arrangement. I guess the risk of switching the batteries is the possibility of overshooting to OFF or simply turning the wrong way to OFF. As I recall Edd just recently had a problem where his switch terminals were crumbling. So switching to a degraded terminal could have the same effect as going to OFF. Rick, What about external regulators? Are they just as subject to being ruined? Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sep 29, 2014 8:48 AM, "Rick Brass via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: When I started cruising in the early 90s, the commonly recommended battery configuration was to have equal size batteries and designate the banks 1 and 2. You either started the engine and charged batteries using ALL, then switched to 1 or 2 after the engine was turned off, or you used 1 exclusively on odd number days and 2 on even number days. But small battery size in comparison to increasing loads from things like refrigeration and radar has caused a lot of dead batteries. So there has been a shift to the modern convention of having a small dedicated starting battery and a much larger house bank. There are much better ways to configure and charge a small start large house arrangement, but the 1-ALL-2 switch is still pretty common and effective if you pay attention. And new switches are "make before break" designs so you don't need to worry about killing the diodes in the regulator if you have the proper switch. Rick Brass Sent from my iPad On Sep 28, 2014, at 18:26, dwight via CnC-List <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: Jonathan >From your statement Rememberwas to have equal sized batteries and designate them as bank 1 & 2 not to switch the 1-ALL-2 when running the engine If position 1 is for start and position 2 is for house, considering the statement above how does one switch from position 1 to position 2 for charging the house bank with the alternator while steaming. Dwight Veinot C&C 35MKII, Alianna Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS _____ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Josh Muckley via CnC-List Sent: September 28, 2014 5:10 PM To: C&C List; Indigo Subject: Re: Stus-List Boat Batteries +1 to Rick's comments. IMO you should get 2 of the largest and highest Amp-hour (heaviest) "deep-cycle" batteries that will fit in your compartment. Use them interchangeably to start and run house loads. Others have suggested switching the 1-ALL-2 selector based on the odd/even day of the week to equalize run time. There are things you can do to improve your setup but if the exsisting setup has worked without issue for 12 years then I say stick with it. Remember not to switch the 1-ALL-2 when running the engine. Doing so can momentarily break the charging circuit and blow the diodes/regulator in the alternator. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 C&C 37+ Solomons, MD On Sep 28, 2014 10:47 AM, "Indigo via CnC-List" <cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com> > wrote: Looks like I need new batteries! I have lived for 12 years with two batteries - one used for house and the other kept in reserve via off-1-all -2 switch. Would like to have a dedicated starting battery in addition to two deep-cells but do not see how I can fit the three in the locker under the quarter berth - and am reluctant to give up any other locker space. - so it looks like I will stick to the two. I googling marine batteries I see that there are dual purpose ones available. Anyone know if this is just a marketing "hoax". In particular Batteries Plus have a Group 27 dual purpose Duracell battery for $95 - seems like a steal - or am I going to be disappointed with how long I can expect it to last (I presume all group. 27 give out the same amp/hours - or do I have to watch out there? -- Jonathan Indigo C&C 35III SOUTHPORT CT _______________________________________________ This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com <mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com> To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com _____ No virus found in this message. 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