I am certainly not on the list for political discussions. But I will say one thing and one thing only. Please do not call the United States "evil." (From a previous post)
Back to appropriate topic, personally I wish bird names would stay the same as named by the people who discovered them. It is not fair to judge others from other times, in a general sense. I'm pretty neutral about it, though, I can understand the point, either way. As a VERY NEW birder, it's hard enough to remember names without the names changing continually. Carla On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 12:44 PM David Suddjian <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi CoBirders, > > *List moderator note*. > This has been an interesting (and polite) discussion, and certainly > appropriate to CoBirds on the whole. As it proceeds I remind list members > that CoBirds is about reporting on *birding in Colorado*, *Colorado birds* > and things pertinent to these topics. For this issue, where there are > strong opinions and deep feelings, I encourage the discussion to steer away > from the lives of historic figures in contexts outside of Colorado birding. > We can look those things up. Discussion of bird names and the plan and > process to change them is fine. You know what I'm trying to say. > > Thank you, > > David Suddjian > CoBirds moderator > Littleton, CO > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 10:13 AM Susan Rosine <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm not quite sure why we're still bringing up McCown, since "his" bird >> already has a new moniker. >> >> Interesting that you note "the Confederacy and the evils that it stood >> for". >> >> Ten of the first twelve presidents owned slaves, and twelve presidents >> altogether had slaves at some point. Yet, we have Washington, Jefferson, >> Jackson and Grant on our money, stamps, etc. >> >> We also still honor men who pushed the Native American Indians from their >> land. >> >> Evil Confederacy? How about evil United States of America? >> >> If at one point, it was simply decided that birds named after humans was >> stupid in general, and therefore would all be renamed, that would be fine. >> Annoying, because it's a lot of name changes all at once, but fine. >> However, this all started because it was discovered a few of these men were >> not perfect, wonderful human beings. Then there had to be intense study >> into "just how evil" they really were. People started taking sides. These >> men were sort of on trial posthumously. Good or bad, cool dude or evil dude? >> >> AOS finally decided, well let's just changed them all, so we don't have >> to dig into each person's life. That's what I find to be ridiculous. They >> should have just changed them all in the first place and we wouldn't be >> having this discussion. >> >> Susan Rosine >> Brighton >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 6, 2023, 9:20 AM [email protected] <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Whether the mischaracterization of John McCown in this message as a >>> "brave hero who took the deadly risk to speaking against the Confederacy?" >>> is deliberately provocative or just ignorant I can't begin to diagnose, but >>> it is certainly "fact-free." McCown is indeed credited with calling the >>> Confederacy a "damned stinking cotton oligarchy," but this was not some >>> repudiation of the Confederacy and all it stood for. No, it was made in the >>> heat of a political squabble he was involved in with Jefferson Davis and >>> some of the other generals he had a disagreement with. The fact is that >>> John McCown resigned his United States Army commission at the beginning of >>> the war to take up arms against his country in defense of the Confederacy >>> and the evils it stood for, and he remained a commissioned general in that >>> force until the very end of the war. >>> >>> In any case, this example alone I think neatly illustrates *precisely* >>> why Bird Names for Birds originally formed, and why it has resulted in this >>> decision by the AOS. If this is the quality of the supposed "history >>> lessons" we can expect to receive from an eponym, all diversity and >>> inclusion questions aside, we should have consigned these to the dustbin >>> decades ago. >>> >>> vr/ >>> Max Miller >>> Lakewood, CO >>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 4:06:13 PM UTC-6 Robert Righter wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> What a fascinating discussion we are all having on Cobirds about the >>>> implication of changing the names of birds. >>>> >>>> >>>> Birds named after historical individuals offer important links to the >>>> rich history, good and bad, about how our country was formed but also how >>>> the history of birds evolved from hunting to the trill of bird watching, to >>>> the impressive transformation from birding into an important scientific >>>> organization, American Ornithological Union AOU. >>>> >>>> >>>> Here are some brief examples of some: >>>> >>>> >>>> Lewis’s Woodpecker, named after Meriwether Lewis, the co-leader of the >>>> stupendously successful Lewis and Clark Expedition in the early 1800s which >>>> explored all the new land west to the Pacific Ocean. >>>> >>>> >>>> John Cassin (Cassin’s Finch, Cassin’s Kingbird and many more) from the >>>> Philadelphia Academy of Natural Science was one of the foremost >>>> ornithologist of the ninetieth century describing numerous new bird >>>> species. He fought form the Union Army during the Civil War, captured by >>>> the Confederate Army, and spent the rest of the war in the sadistic Libby >>>> Prison, not many survived, he was lucky, but died shortly afterwards >>>> >>>> >>>> John McCowen, (McCown’s Longspur), now the Thick-billed Longspur. was >>>> a Major General in the Confederate Army, He was a brilliant tactician with >>>> just a few hundred men and one piece of artillery, he defeated an entire >>>> division of Union cavalry. McCown became disillusioned with the purpose of >>>> Confederacy and argued against it’s goals and is is quoted as saying about >>>> the Confederacy, *“…a damned stinking cotton oligarchy.* >>>> >>>> Was McCown a villain or a brave hero who took the deadly risk to >>>> speaking against the Confederacy? >>>> >>>> >>>> Steller’s Jay named after Georg Steller a brilliant German scientist >>>> who was asked by Peter the Great to explore Russia, which he did during the >>>> winter by dog sled. Hooked up with Captain Bering and set sail to the east >>>> and where they discovered Alaska, then spent years ship wrecked on Bering >>>> Island in the middle of the Aleutian Islands. He survived most others >>>> didn’t. >>>> >>>> >>>> This is just a taste of the intriguing history that underlies each of >>>> the bird species named after historic naturalist and ornithologist. More >>>> involved biographies of each can be found in the *Colorado >>>> Field Ornithologist* Journals or just tap into Google & Wikipedia >>>> >>>> Do you think this level of information enhance bird watching or not. >>>> >>>> Bob Righter >>>> Denver CO >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/adcc07e6-24ad-498d-817c-3a1f8d6d36d0n%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/adcc07e6-24ad-498d-817c-3a1f8d6d36d0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Colorado Birds" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CACPnx8WxHW_pb3uL-C5BY6Nc8cdJ1g8dT3GEdzURdsu6ocm5NA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CACPnx8WxHW_pb3uL-C5BY6Nc8cdJ1g8dT3GEdzURdsu6ocm5NA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Colorado Birds" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en > * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include > bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate > * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Colorado Birds" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAGj6RoqddDq6MUf--vWG54yymuDgW77gE%2Bw7cwo53HV4Xqx1ow%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAGj6RoqddDq6MUf--vWG54yymuDgW77gE%2Bw7cwo53HV4Xqx1ow%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAB2cnJrfgoL9P1DU0XA0CX0FYF2-HSOfmOz7L6wPyL9%2B-HDWog%40mail.gmail.com.
