Dear CoBirders: Let's remember the list's focus on topics pertinent to Colorado birding and Colorado birds. I feel like this discussion has ranged away from that.
Anyone have any birds to report? :-) Thank you, David Suddjian CoBirds list moderator On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 1:48 PM Evan Wilder <[email protected]> wrote: > I must be missing something here. How would it be imposing colonialism on > other countries by changing the names to descriptive terms that can > actually be translated? While “Townsend’s Warbler” means next to nothing to > English speakers, “Chipe de Townsend” must mean even less to Spanish > speakers. In contrast, “Black-Throated Green Warbler” translating to “Chipe > Dorso Verde” provides a related meaning while being descriptive in its own > way. It seems to me that there is more “western baggage” attached to a > Eurocentric eponymous name than to the renaming of it. > > I’m getting these particular translations from my friend Eddy, a birding > guide in the Yucatán, who takes care to translate all the bird names in his > posts. If you look at his posts (eddy_birding_tours > <https://instagram.com/eddy_birding_tours?igshid=OGQ5ZDc2ODk2ZA==> on > Instagram), the Spanish names he prefers to use often alter the English > meaning or eponymous name in order to be more descriptive in Spanish. > > That said, I appreciate Mr. Pethiyagoda’s focus on critical taxonomic work > and his pushback against burdening “researchers from former colonies” with > the work of a renaming project that stems from an American effort. His > article is an important perspective in all of this, especially the fact > that renaming eponymous bird names is unequivocally not the most important > factor in inclusivity or conservation. If the American scientific community > holds this renaming effort up as the paragon of progressive ideals in > ornithology, we need to reevaluate our priorities. > > - Evan > > On Dec 8, 2023, at 1:15 PM, Diana Beatty <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The AOU states on their website that they are focusing only on bird names > in the U.S. and Canada right now, and do not have a plan to change Latin > American bird names without the involvement of Latin American > ornithologists and organizations. > > Diana Beatty > El Paso County > > On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 1:07 PM Rachel Hopper <[email protected]> wrote: > >> So we change the name of Swainson’s Warbler. >> >> >> Wintering Swainson’s Warblers are in the Caribbean and southern Mexico >> and also central Jamaica. >> >> >> How are we not imposing our values on other countries where these birds >> are all addressed by their ENGLISH common names? >> >> >> And to quote Jon Dunn: “The AOS will do outreach to individuals and >> organizations in Latin America to see how they feel about the changing of >> the English names and how to go about it. What happens if they say "no >> thank you?" Many of those species that are of rare to accidental occurrence >> have well-established English names. What right do we have to change those >> names? Forcing new English names seems like more examples of "American >> Imperialism," the very thing that the movement to replace English names >> decries against ("colonialism").” >> >> >> Swainson’s Warbler does not “belong” to us here in the U.S. nor does it >> “belong” to the AOS. What right does any governing body in the U.S. have to >> change the name of a bird that spends three-quarters of its life in mostly >> non-English speaking countries? How is this not imposing our “western >> baggage” on other parts of the world? >> >> >> The whole point of the article is the very idea that we can force this >> change on other countries smacks of the new colonialism. >> >> >> Rachel Kolokoff Hopper >> Follow me on iNaturalist <https://www.inaturalist.org/people/2339591> >> rkhphotography.net <https://www.rkhphotography.net/> >> [email protected] >> Ft. Collins, CO >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> On Dec 8, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Diana Beatty <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> It is an interesting article. It does not address the AOU decision per >> se, but instead is addressing some published works of scientists around the >> interest of species name revisions, which could include lots of different >> ideas about how and where those are happening, for what reasons, and >> whether they involve common names or also scientific. >> >> The geographic range of AOU is limited and the scope of discussion is not >> controlling how other organizations and parts of the world adopt or alter >> naming conventions. Further, the scope of renaming by AOU does not >> currently involve scientific names but only common. Bird name changes >> happen regularly, and the article does say there is a "duty to remove >> obviously hurtful and discriminatory words from the scientific lexicon". >> >> The logic of the AOU approach is that we do waste our time if we spend it >> all arguing over what exactly qualifies and what doesn't, and it is one of >> the points of the article that their method seems to attempt to address by >> adopting a simple rule in its own practice. >> >> I prefer to discuss what is actually being done vs. the hypotheticals of >> a larger or more encompassing act that is beyond the will, scope, or intent >> of an AOU decision. I agree with the author that the "West" should not be >> imposing its baggage all over the world, but I don't think that what the >> article is opposing is necessarily inclusive of the AOU decision due to its >> much more limited range and scope and reasoned approach. >> >> Diana Beatty >> El Paso County >> >> On Thu, Dec 7, 2023 at 9:26 AM Rachel Kolokoff Hopper < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> And I would answer in rebuttal that anyone wanting to be fully informed >>> on this topic should read “Policing the scientific lexicon: The new >>> colonialism?” by Rohan Pethiyagoda (Sri Lanka) which can be found here: >>> https://tinyurl.com/5u45569r >>> >>> A partial quote: “Here, writing from the perspective of a scientist who >>> has spent most of his career working in Sri Lanka, a biodiverse developing >>> country, I contend that undoing the perceived harm that inappropriate names >>> and terms can cause people who belong to oppressed communities in the >>> developed world (the West) may harm the greater part of the global >>> scientific community whose native language is not English. >>> >>> Cheng et al. (2023) seek to redress social problems in the >>> English-speaking world (henceforth, the Anglosphere) and especially North >>> America, by imposing terminological and nomenclatural reforms also on the >>> rest of the world. These reforms would carry the unintended consequence of >>> compelling taxonomists in biodiverse countries—especially developing >>> countries—to direct their attention away from the enormous task of >>> describing Earth’s vanishing biodiversity in order to deal with the >>> challenge of revising biological nomenclature and terminology to address >>> issues that have little meaning outside the Anglosphere—particularly the US >>> context. I contend that the US would do better to solve its social and >>> political problems rather than renaming them, and especially, rather than >>> exporting them.“ >>> >>> Please read the entire paper. Very Illuminating. >>> >>> R. >>> ----------------------- >>> Rachel Kolokoff Hopper >>> Follow me on iNaturalist <https://www.inaturalist.org/people/2339591> >>> rkhphotography.net <https://www.rkhphotography.net/> >>> [email protected] >>> Ft. Collins, CO >>> >>> On Dec 7, 2023, at 9:01 AM, Diana Beatty <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Jared Del Rosso published a good addition to this discussion on The >>> Conversation: — >>> https://theconversation.com/why-dozens-of-north-american-bird-species-are-getting-new-names-every-name-tells-a-story-217886 >>> >>> An interesting point he made: "all eponymous names imply human >>> ownership over birds....Science has greatly expanded human >>> understanding of birds in recent decades. We now recognize that birds are >>> intelligent >>> <https://theconversation.com/are-crows-really-that-clever-212914>, with >>> rich emotional lives >>> <https://theconversation.com/laughs-cries-and-deception-birds-emotional-lives-are-just-as-complicated-as-ours-69471>. >>> Radar, lightweight transmitters and satellite telemetry have helped >>> scientists map the transcontinental migrations >>> <https://theconversation.com/birds-migrate-along-ancient-routes-here-are-the-latest-high-tech-tools-scientists-are-using-to-study-their-amazing-journeys-187967> >>> that many bird species make each year. >>> >>> Trading eponymous names, which treat birds as passive objects, for >>> richer descriptive names reflects this sea change in our understanding of >>> avian lives." >>> >>> >>> Diana Beatty >>> >>> El Paso County >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 8:02 AM Greg Osland <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks to Don Jones for sharing a link from Kenn Kaufman that >>>> summarizes some of Kenn's recent research on eponymous names and the >>>> history of ornithology. The report provides objective historical facts that >>>> most birders, like me, never realized. Each of us can draw our own >>>> conclusions from his findings about the historical value of eponymous names >>>> and whether they should be retained for historical reasons. Here is one of >>>> his findings: >>>> >>>> From the 1820s to the early 1840s in North America, John James Audubon >>>> was handing out eponyms like candy. At first he was trying to court favor >>>> with British naturalists (like Bewick, Henslow, or Swainson) or with >>>> wealthy individuals who might support his work. Later he used names to >>>> honor various friends and colleagues (like Harris, Sprague, or Bell). >>>> >>>> >>>> http://www.kaufmanfieldguides.com/kenn-on-the-issues/eponymous-bird-names-and-the-history-of-ornithology?fbclid=IwAR32lesbSDgzt0MiBEG4bGBoBBnWEPPcisGmEW9z-aWljHFrMbOi08lwxaU >>>> >>>> Greg Osland >>>> Larimer County >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists >>>> https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CA%2BYKL92Vdh1MCMEOiao%2BEAXm-iLSMiJLzVAKX58kpoDJmNW9Gg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CA%2BYKL92Vdh1MCMEOiao%2BEAXm-iLSMiJLzVAKX58kpoDJmNW9Gg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ****** >>> >>> “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” >>> said *Gandalf*, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is >>> not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time >>> that is given us.” >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAM-_j9s3DBhv-Ojr9e_rbD495cQ6OWYaRo%2BNbn80RtgkxKhjUQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAM-_j9s3DBhv-Ojr9e_rbD495cQ6OWYaRo%2BNbn80RtgkxKhjUQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >>> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >>> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >>> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/2209A12F-A148-41A0-A76F-4F76E55A35A1%40gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/2209A12F-A148-41A0-A76F-4F76E55A35A1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> >> ****** >> >> “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” >> said *Gandalf*, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is >> not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time >> that is given us.” >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Colorado Birds" group. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en >> * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. >> Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate >> * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Colorado Birds" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/54E4A7CF-508C-41F6-8600-C337C5856480%40gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/54E4A7CF-508C-41F6-8600-C337C5856480%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > ****** > > “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said > *Gandalf*, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for > them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is > given us.” > > > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Colorado Birds" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en > * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include > bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate > * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Colorado Birds" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAM-_j9vUstBcCUWz7SQZtqruFpXFPcFS6SqB%3DWRfcutc3ga7dA%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAM-_j9vUstBcCUWz7SQZtqruFpXFPcFS6SqB%3DWRfcutc3ga7dA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Colorado Birds" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en > * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include > bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate > * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Colorado Birds" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/5E72498D-A3AC-4831-8E66-0E9A29EF8525%40gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/5E72498D-A3AC-4831-8E66-0E9A29EF8525%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cobirds?hl=en?hl=en * All posts should be signed with the poster's full name and city. Include bird species and location in the subject line when appropriate * Join Colorado Field Ornithologists https://cobirds.org/CFO/Membership/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Colorado Birds" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/cobirds/CAGj6Rop0dm9qk2dsKwszVVzRCfAbHzOLd7jcoduJzTB1_Kj1Bw%40mail.gmail.com.
