Hmmm...your post prompted me to respond...Not sure how much Struts experience you have, but I believe a couple of your comments don't exactly ring true...
- "Struts is for amateurs": Many very professional web sites have been built with struts...including a few that my team and I have put together. It is a powerful framework for web based applications. - "Low complexity and thus, low functionality": Not sure where this concept came from, but if you go back over the entire history of computing technology, you will no doubt discover that the overwhelming majority of significant accomplishments (take OOP for example) were simple and elegant...ie "low complexity"...and yet offered vast improvements in functionality...**Low Complexity != Low Functionality** - "High delivery and maintenance costs": Struts is open source...delivery is free. If one takes the time to learn the framework and use it properly (just as with any other framework) the maintenance costs are negligible. They only become high if you try to grab it and use it "off-the-shelf" without putting any effort into truly adopting the framework. Granted there are ramp-up costs, and they may be significant based on your team's prior experience, but Struts costs are no greater than any other framework out there. - "Frameworks like struts mix functionality with presentation": The Struts framework is *specifically* designed to separate all portions of the MVC2 design model. The presentation components, if utilized properly, receive their data from POJOs (plain old Java objects) that implement the DTO design pattern. These DTOs are passed back and forth from the business layer to the presentation layer and the separation between the layers remains complete. For more info on this separation of presentation and functionality, Chapter 3 of "Programming Jakarta Struts" by Chuck Cavaness is a pretty good resource. I just want to say that I'm a great fan of both Cocoon and Struts (hence my subscription to this list) and I have applications in production that use both of them. I find this community very helpful and supportive of issues that arise while trying to implement Cocoon...just as the Struts community is with that framework. While there is a lot of overlap between the two frameworks, they are definitely complimentary in many areas. Maybe someday someone will find the time to take the best of both worlds and combine them :-) -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 6:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: cocoon & struts together Actually I'm an EJB specialist and I don't generally work on projects conducive to web interfaces. The complexity level of the stuff I do is too high. (Pharmaceutical industry and genetic research). My customers generally require a higher range of functionality than a web interface can provide. That being said, I do, however, do some web work which is why I took up the idea of cocoon. I use the same technique that I use for GUI programming. Basically a command centric architecture. I hate to say "struts is for amateurs" but it kind of is. It has low complexity and thus low functionality. It also has high cost in terms of content delivery and maintenance costs. I personally chose to avoid all that and let Java objects do all the work and let the framework just concentrate on presentation. Enter cocoon. My programs consist of allot of specially designed generators that generate pure data. Then I use XSLT to translate that into the appropriate media. I also use XSLT to output the forms though I am experimenting with reflexive techniques that I have used in GUI applications to make generation of forms be based on reflexive command analysis. Frameworks like struts mix functionality with presentation, which IMHO is a very bad thing. Its a high maintenance cost solution with a low development cost. That is the wrong way around. To be professional you want high development cost and low maintenance cost. This causes your feature turn around, post release, to be much faster. Since you are able to react quickly to the demands of your users, your company or customers win. The guy that slapped it together with low development costs may make some sales coming out the door, but will bleed customers as they seek more stable solutions with faster turn-around time for new features and fault correction. I guess that is a long way of saying, "put all your work into the back end." Cocoon is perfect for this because you can develop custom generators to deliver data and let a web designer with a couple weeks of training worry about the XSLT translation. In the meantime your valuable programmer resources are implementing new features and stabilizing the product. Well that's my opinion on the matter. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Gallardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 11:48 PM Subject: Re: cocoon & struts together > Robert Simmons dijo: > > I dont think that using struts would be useful within an efficient > > cocoon site. Cocoon takes another approach to web development that is, > > in my opinion, superior to the jsp/struts approach. > > Thanks for the comment. I was trying to start learning about this stuff. > > As a bean specialist (a book writer) what tools you recommend to manage > all the beans stuff (creation, changes, etc.) > > Thanks for the comments. > > Antonio Gallardo > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please check that your question has not already been answered in the > FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please check that your question has not already been answered in the FAQ before posting. <http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/faq/index.html> To unsubscribe, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
