It would detract from the argument to not speak to the points, so I will not argue about experience. You look only for a way to minimize my argument. Your argument is similar to suggesting Nike has superior engineering because they have the coolest shoes. No doubt there is some engineering at Nike wrt shoes but it aint that special in the grand scheme of things. It's about selling a minimal product with high margins, like Apple. If we take as a simplistic metric the number of inferences and resulting complexity produced from work at the company required to go from the drawing board to the product release, then the engineering that goes into an iPhone is not really any more then most of the McWindows phones out there. A lot of design and art and marketing considerations mostly, but that is not really engineering, and what's left is for the most part just a cheap computer with off the shelf parts. Parts that minimally met the quality requirments, no doubt. Matt ________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:47 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 4:40 PM, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Clever design != feat of engineering. Matt again, unless you have "engineered" a "clever design" I don't think you have much credibility on this. Executing appealing products from an engineering perspective is incredibly hard. What experiences do you have on this front which would suggest otherwise. ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 4:26 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Crane, Matthew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There is nothing incredible about apple's electrical, software, or mechanical engineering. IMHO.. The marketing/buzz machine is incredible though. I presume that you have never worked on a team that has built a successful mainstream consumer product, because if you did, you certainly would not be able to dismiss their success in this manner. Making things that sell has very little to do with advertising. "hype" does not just come from nowhere, as if from the heavens. If crappy products could win based on good advertising, all that would be required was money and clearly that is not nearly enough (see Microsoft Vista). The bottom line is that best selling tech gadgets, software, and computers sell to primarily tech savvy people because they like them. They like them, because the designers and developers have figured out how to make broadly appealing products. That is hard. If you are suggesting otherwise without actually having a resume that suggests you have done so yourself, you really don't have much of an argument. Hank ________________________________ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of hank williams Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 1:52 PM To: List for Openmoko community discussion Subject: Re: Engineering Driven vs. Community Driven (was Re: Ugliness) If this is primarily a developer platform, why are there so many intense opinions about such superficial things as color and marketing anyways? In today's world, there is *very* little daylight between marketing and engineering. They are of a piece. The product design, the feature set, and yes even the physical form factor are all both engineering issues as well as marketing issues. Apple is a prime example of this. The beauty of the design of their products is all about marketing, but could not be achieved without incredible engineering on the electrical, software, and mechanical engineering fronts. So I don't think, particularly for a phone, you can separate these issues. Hank -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com _______________________________________________ Openmoko community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community -- blog: whydoeseverythingsuck.com
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