Hi, Am 15.09.2015 um 22:32 schrieb Neil Jerram <[email protected]>:
> Hi Nikolaus! > > I've been wondering about writing something along these lines, and your > enquiry has provided the required activation energy! > > On 15/09/15 17:10, H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: >> So what is your opinion? > > As a potential purchaser, who has already been around for two cycles of this > journey (i.e. GTA02 and GTA04), my current feeling is that for real > (eventual) success there needs to be a solid plan that goes beyond just > hardware. In addition to all the hardware work, which I assume Goldelico > would propose to do, someone needs to undertake to provide and guarantee a > minimal level of working software, well we also try to do that in addition to hardware (see our projects list [1]): * we support boot loader * we work and maintain the Letux kernel * we adapt and maintain the Replicant for GTA04 [1]: http://projects.goldelico.com/projects/ We haven’t been talking about that for a while (except Replicant) because the kernel was unusable due to an X11 crash bug (which has been fixed in the kerner just 2 weeks ago). > which I think should mean: > > - complete and upstreamed Linux kernel support, for all hardware > - demonstration of an acceptably low battery current in suspend > - demonstration of stable modem usage, for calls and data (at least 3G) > - demonstration of reliably acceptable audio quality in voice calls > - demonstration of stable wifi that reaches spec’d bandwidth and still uses > acceptable current. Yes, this is definitively what we all want to see. A problem is how to demonstrate thais with the limited number of people really working on it. And demonstrate it before building hardware. Basically someone must pay for building these demonstrators (which might fail). I.e. take the risk of such a failure. But most of your questions can already be answered: * Upstreaming is tough (you have to convince maintainers and accept that they try to enforce different - and sometimes conflicting - goals). * low battery current had been shown quite a while ago with the 3.7 kernel - but we did not yet get it down to the same low level with any more recent kernel (so it is a kernel issue and not hardware) * stable modem is IMHO already shown with Replicant (there are some tricks to stabilize the modem) * audio quality as well (hardware voice routing in GTA04A4 and A5) * Neil has reported some fixes foe the SDIO kernel drivers to get high WiFi bandwidth > > Whoever takes that on, the plan also needs to include an understanding that > they and Goldelico will work together as needed to achieve those things, > through a combination of whatever SW and HW work is needed. I am convinced that it does not work if two separate entities are working on hardware and software. We had that for the QtMoko project. QtMoko did a wonderful job to support more and more features - up to a point where Radek lost interest. I tried to revitalize it under the Goldelico/OpenPhoenux umbrella but failed to get it compiled. Therefore I think it must be a single entity being responsible for hard- and software. This does of course not exclude subcontractors working on parts of the whole picture. We already have that in both HW and SW. Production is done by a subcontractor. Lukas is working as a subcontractor on Replicant. Marek for the kernel. But speed is limited by the budget that is available. The software work is something which is financed from the gta04 project donations we collect. And HW subcontractors will be paid as soon as they build the GTA04A5 boards. > > That would be a plan that I could support again. I don’t think I would > support a new hardware-only plan - even if I do still have fun playing with > my GTA04 from time to time. There is no hardware only plan. The GTA04A5 is just happening now, because we can build it now. It is intended to support all the software that has been built up since the last production run. But software work will continue in parallel. A problem we really have (don’t laugh) is that if someone wants to help to improve the software needs a piece of hardware to do testing. We even don’t have such a spare a device to give to potential developers. Therefore waiting for software to be finished first and then provide new hardware with rock-solid and well tested software doesn’t even work. For us. Non-free ecosystems have collected a lot of money at the stock exchanges to be able to finance alpha and beta tests and to publish new releases only if the most critical bugs have been fixed. > > >> >> Should our projects be “profitable” or more be a “charity” based on >> volunteer work? > > If the plan is right - i.e. as above - I am absolutely happy for you to plan > for it to be profitable for you. Well, what would we need to charge that really hiring more software developer is profitable? A rule of thumb estimate is approx. 100EUR for each GTA04A5. With that budget it could be possible to hire 2-3 more full-time software developers to iron out all known issues (maybe except upstreaming because it depends on the speed maintainers do their work). But only after the GTA04A5 come out of production. What do you think - would adding such a “software development” price-increase be acceptable? Basically we face a hen- and egg situation. Without software there is limited use&demand for hardware. Without hardware there are limited options to develop software. So how can we break that? BR, Nikolaus _______________________________________________ Community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.openphoenux.org
