Am 20.09.2015 um 17:16 schrieb H. Nikolaus Schaller <[email protected]>:
> Hi, > > Am 15.09.2015 um 22:32 schrieb Neil Jerram <[email protected]>: > >> Hi Nikolaus! >> >> I've been wondering about writing something along these lines, and your >> enquiry has provided the required activation energy! >> >> On 15/09/15 17:10, H. Nikolaus Schaller wrote: >>> So what is your opinion? >> >> As a potential purchaser, who has already been around for two cycles of this >> journey (i.e. GTA02 and GTA04), my current feeling is that for real >> (eventual) success there needs to be a solid plan that goes beyond just >> hardware. In addition to all the hardware work, which I assume Goldelico >> would propose to do, someone needs to undertake to provide and guarantee a >> minimal level of working software, > > well we also try to do that in addition to hardware (see our projects list > [1]): > * we support boot loader > * we work and maintain the Letux kernel > * we adapt and maintain the Replicant for GTA04 > > [1]: http://projects.goldelico.com/projects/ > > We haven’t been talking about that for a while (except Replicant) because the > kernel was unusable due to an X11 crash bug (which has been fixed in the > kerner just 2 weeks ago). > >> which I think should mean: >> >> - complete and upstreamed Linux kernel support, for all hardware >> - demonstration of an acceptably low battery current in suspend >> - demonstration of stable modem usage, for calls and data (at least 3G) >> - demonstration of reliably acceptable audio quality in voice calls >> - demonstration of stable wifi that reaches spec’d bandwidth and still uses >> acceptable current. > > Yes, this is definitively what we all want to see. > > A problem is how to demonstrate thais with the limited number of people > really working on it. And demonstrate it before building hardware. Basically > someone must pay for building these demonstrators (which might fail). I.e. > take the risk of such a failure. > > But most of your questions can already be answered: > > * Upstreaming is tough (you have to convince maintainers and accept that they > try to enforce different - and sometimes conflicting - goals). > * low battery current had been shown quite a while ago with the 3.7 kernel - > but we did not yet get it down to the same low level with any more recent > kernel (so it is a kernel issue and not hardware) I should add: not only a hardware issue. The GTA04A5 has some improvements to get standby power consumption further down (e.g. separately turn off IrDA receiver and RS232 console; turn off the CPU clock in deep sleep state) > * stable modem is IMHO already shown with Replicant (there are some tricks to > stabilize the modem) > * audio quality as well (hardware voice routing in GTA04A4 and A5) > * Neil has reported some fixes foe the SDIO kernel drivers to get high WiFi > bandwidth > >> >> Whoever takes that on, the plan also needs to include an understanding that >> they and Goldelico will work together as needed to achieve those things, >> through a combination of whatever SW and HW work is needed. > > I am convinced that it does not work if two separate entities are working on > hardware and software. > > We had that for the QtMoko project. QtMoko did a wonderful job to support > more and more features - up to a point where Radek lost interest. > I tried to revitalize it under the Goldelico/OpenPhoenux umbrella but failed > to get it compiled. > > Therefore I think it must be a single entity being responsible for hard- and > software. > > This does of course not exclude subcontractors working on parts of the whole > picture. > > We already have that in both HW and SW. Production is done by a > subcontractor. Lukas is working as a subcontractor on Replicant. Marek for > the kernel. But speed is limited by the budget that is available. > > The software work is something which is financed from the gta04 project > donations we collect. And HW subcontractors will be paid as soon as they > build the GTA04A5 boards. > >> >> That would be a plan that I could support again. I don’t think I would >> support a new hardware-only plan - even if I do still have fun playing with >> my GTA04 from time to time. > > There is no hardware only plan. The GTA04A5 is just happening now, because we > can build it now. It is intended to support all the software that has been > built up since the last production run. But software work will continue in > parallel. > > A problem we really have (don’t laugh) is that if someone wants to help to > improve the software needs a piece of hardware to do testing. We even don’t > have such a spare a device to give to potential developers. Therefore waiting > for software to be finished first and then provide new hardware with > rock-solid and well tested software doesn’t even work. For us. Non-free > ecosystems have collected a lot of money at the stock exchanges to be able to > finance alpha and beta tests and to publish new releases only if the most > critical bugs have been fixed. > >> >> >>> >>> Should our projects be “profitable” or more be a “charity” based on >>> volunteer work? >> >> If the plan is right - i.e. as above - I am absolutely happy for you to plan >> for it to be profitable for you. > > Well, what would we need to charge that really hiring more software developer > is profitable? > > A rule of thumb estimate is approx. 100EUR for each GTA04A5. > > With that budget it could be possible to hire 2-3 more full-time software > developers to iron out all known issues (maybe except upstreaming because it > depends on the speed maintainers do their work). But only after the GTA04A5 > come out of production. > > What do you think - would adding such a “software development” price-increase > be acceptable? > > Basically we face a hen- and egg situation. Without software there is limited > use&demand for hardware. Without hardware there are limited options to > develop software. > > So how can we break that? > > BR, > Nikolaus > > > _______________________________________________ > Community mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community > http://www.openphoenux.org _______________________________________________ Community mailing list [email protected] http://lists.goldelico.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/community http://www.openphoenux.org
