Message: 1
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 14:33:39 +0200
From: Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de>
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers
Message-ID: <56fd1923.4080...@snafu.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 31.03.2016 13:43, Bill Whig wrote:
Joseki learning requires much more than move suggestions.
Prove it.
Read my four joseki books and my two books on positional judgement for a
proof. Hints: global context, evaluation, strategic choices, tactical
reading, many strategic concepts etc. All these are required for good
human joseki play and (far) beyond move suggestions.
--
robert jasiek
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 08:43:22 -0500
From: "Jim O'Flaherty" <jim.oflaherty...@gmail.com>
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] new challenge for Go programmers
Message-ID:
<CAKX5GkhH6q7bjWDSZtQP6RLggXVd11=jqafb9gxhmu_+b58...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Robert,
This is exactly why I think the "explanation of the suggested moves"
requires a much deeper baking into the participating ANN's (bottom up
approach). And given what I have read thus far, I am still seeing the risk
extraordinarily high and the payoff exceedingly low, outside an academic
context.
However, if someone was to do all the dirty work setting up all the
infrastructure, hunt down the training data and then financially facilitate
the thousands of hours of human work and the tens to hundreds of thousands
of hours of automated learning work, I would become substantially more
interested...and think a high quality desired outcome remains a low
probability.
Jim
On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:33 AM, Robert Jasiek <jas...@snafu.de> wrote:
On 31.03.2016 13:43, Bill Whig wrote:
Joseki learning requires much more than move suggestions.
Prove it.
Read my four joseki books and my two books on positional judgement for a
proof. Hints: global context, evaluation, strategic choices, tactical
reading, many strategic concepts etc. All these are required for good human
joseki play and (far) beyond move suggestions.
--
robert jasiek
Wouldn't you agree that a lot of people (most?) might might advance more
swiftly with move suggestions rather than text that they have to work through
like a textbook? It would be more like tutoring. Except a little more falls in
the arms of the student--which is as it should be I think. I haven't ready any
of your books, but I've read a few Go books and most of them do not do justice
to the complexity of the game. "Move suggestions" would invite the student to
think in more creative, and effective, ways than I have seen put forth in any
book thus far. Of course, a few handfuls of life and death problems belong to
the student's responsibility before getting to this point. Most say that the
first thing that one should do after learning joseki is to forget it... .
Bill
_______________________________________________
Computer-go mailing list
Computer-go@computer-go.org
http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
