Magnus, Erica does not have dynamic komi. I didn't expect to win, so I never
tested any handicaped game before. Also, I changed the komi 7.5 to 0.5 just
before the game start. I believe Zen, Many Faces, even Mogo, must do much
better in handicaped games.
Fotland teached me how to do dynamic komi (thanks a lot) but I was too tired
to do it. So, Erica was not well-prepared for this match against this little
and strong girl. But I think this game is just for fun, and I respect her
grand father very much. So, I am happy to have such a chance to play a game
face to face with her.
Aja
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2010 12:21 AM
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] Exhibition match
I watched the video and my question is if Erica uses dynamic Komi? My
impression was that it early on chose variations that simplified the game.
Then there was a huge fight with a lot of strong moves from both players,
and in the end of the fight it was an even game when the endgame started.
I had the feeling that Erica played as if it had the game under control
all the time but then in the end it crumbled. At This is something I have
seen often. Perhaps dynamic komi would be crucial in handicap games
against pros? By playing more aggressive in the opening the program may
more often enter the endgame with a clear advantage, or even win a
knockout victory.
My thinking here is that the main weakness of MCTS on 19x19 in general is
to handle multiple parallel fights. When a big life and death fight
happens the effective branching factor is small and the program can read
out the fight correctly. But as soon as the position is quiet with a lot
of large moves left the effective branching factor goes up with 4-5 local
fights of more each with several possible candidate moves.
I guess the top programs rely on some kind of pattern matching for move
selection. I would expect pattern matching be most effective early and
late in the game. Early because situations tend to be standard and an
open center make strategy similar between games so that pattern
generalize well to new position. In the late endgame patterns should be
effective because the endgame becomes more and more local and tactics
more and more simple as groups become strong.
In the early endgame however correct play depend on many stones placed in
patterns that will not match any patterns in a database because there are
simply practically an infinite amount of such patterns. Small patterns
will of course match but they will generalize very poorly to new
situation at this stage.
So a good pattern database to set priors in the search tree may become
ineffective in the late middlegame and early endgame making the problems
of multiple parallel fights even worse. And this is what the young pro
felt.
-Magnus
Quoting steve uurtamo <[email protected]>:
it'd definitely be interesting to know what move (or small region of
moves)
she's referring to.
s.
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:12 AM, Olivier Teytaud
<[email protected]>wrote:
My two cents: Li Yue told me in the past that a main weakness of
computers
was in the "big yose".
Computers are (I think) strong in small yose, but weak in big yose.
I don't know if Rina Fujisawa refers to this by "middlegame".
Olivier
who has a book that extends to the middlegame?
;)
s.
On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 8:39 AM, Hiroshi Yamashita
<[email protected]>wrote:
You can see Japanese biggest newspaper news. (In Japanese)
http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/culture/news/20101002-OYT1T00668.htm
--------------------------
Translation:
Strongest program played self-destruct. 12 year's old professional
defeated computer.
Professinal Go player FUJISAWA Rina won against Taiwan's program Erica
with 6 handicaps game.
She bacame pro this April in 11 year's and 6 months.
She played safely and won. She said "Computer played non-booked
move in middlegame, and blew up."
--------------------------
Hiroshi Yamashita
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Fotland" <
[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, October 02, 2010 1:01 PM
Subject: [Computer-go] Exhibition match
Erica is playing a 12 yr old 1 dan professional, granddaughter of
Fujisawa
Shuko, with 6 stone handicap.
Video is live now at
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/the-jaist-20th-an-ni-ver-sa-ry-events-go
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--
=========================================================
Olivier Teytaud -- [email protected]
TAO, LRI, UMR 8623(CNRS - Universite Paris-Sud),
bat 490 Universite Paris-Sud F-91405 Orsay Cedex France
http://0z.fr/EJm0g
(one of the 56.5 % of french who did not vote for Sarkozy in 2007)
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