When Olivier said that "the job would be completely done", his criterion (
winning 4 of 7 games against top pros ) suggests that "the job" which he had in
mind was simply to beat top pros at 9x9 Go.
Solving a game, however, is a much higher standard. It means to play as well as
an omniscient God would. The game of tic-tac-toe is solved; just about everyone
knows the best lines of play. The game of checkers was recently solved; not
even
an omniscient Checkers God would play better. The perfect game ends in a draw.
http://spectrum.ieee.org/computing/software/checkers-solved
Solving the game of Go should take quite a few more years yet. ;)
I have to note that, contrary to the opening theme of this article, people are
still playing Checkers, 4 years after it has been solved.
Terry McIntyre <[email protected]>
Unix/Linux Systems Administration
Taking time to do it right saves having to do it twice.
________________________________
From: Aja <[email protected]>
To: Álvaro Begué <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Wed, July 13, 2011 8:37:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] 19x19 opening books
Sorry it might be my misunderstanding. Maybe what Olivier meant is "defeat
human champion" like DeepBlue but not "solve", such as what he said here:
http://teytaud.over-blog.com/article-mogotw-wins-the-first-ever-9x9-game-against-a-top-pro-as-black-38407487.html
We now should win on a complete game like 4 out of 7 games and the job would
be completly done for 9x9 Go :-)
Mogo is clearly on the way to solve 9x9 even 7x7. It is worth mentioning
that Mogo defeated all the pros in 7x7 games in FUZZ-IEEE 2011.
Aja
----- Original Message -----
From: "Álvaro Begué" <[email protected]>
To: "Aja" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Computer-go] 19x19 opening books
On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Aja <[email protected]> wrote:
> For Zen and CrazyStone, they might not be interested on 9x9, because 19x19
> is their arena. Mogo is maybe the best candidate. In the TAAI
> conference last year in Taiwan, Olivier stated that Mogo will solve (or
> weakly solve?) 9x9 by winning 4 out of 7 games against some top
> professional
> player.
>
> Aja
Ein? That's not what solving a game means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solved_game
Ąlvaro.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Brian Sheppard
> To: [email protected] ; 'Aja'
> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 12:01 AM
> Subject: RE: [Computer-go] 19x19 opening books
>
>>I think 9x9 go, even though compared to chess in complexity, is still more
>> complex than chess and that the book will have a little less impact,
>> although still a lot.
>
>
>
>
>
> My projection is the opposite: I think that 9x9 will be "played out"
> within
> 5 years. Not weakly solved, exactly, but close to it. Zen and CrazyStone
> have the ability to start on that project already.
>
>
>
> My impression is that the opening books are routinely worth a few hundred
> rating points in 9x9 CGOS.
>
>
>
> I would cite Valkyria, which has a version that is playing near the top of
> the CGOS ladder most of the time. A comparable version was playing ~200
> rating points within the last year, and I suspect that the opening book
> knowledge that comes from its long-term memory is the dominant
> contributor.
>
>
>
> I also cite the Little Golem server, which is dominated by programs that
> have opening books.
>
>
>
> Based on the work of Mogo and Valkyria, I suspect that if you take a
> pretty
> good player and create a feedback system then you get a great opening
> book.
> With an effective branching factor of maybe 2 to 3, you can get pretty far
> into the game.
>
>
>
> Brian
>
>
>
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>
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