At 09:35 PM 2/28/2010, Stewart Marshall <[email protected]> wrote:
Bob I have no need to convince anyone of what I believe, but when asked I
will explain it.
Thank you for responding, Stewart. However, I didn't mention the act
of convincing others of "what [you] believe." I spoke, instead, of
attempting to convince others that what you believe (as an article of
religious faith, doctrine, or dogma) is, somehow, empirical fact or, to use
your word, "reality." Those are two very different behaviors.
Also note that I believe it to be truth, but am aware that what I believe
is truth may not be what others believe.
That really isn't what I was talking about. I was, instead, talking
about attempting to convince others, whether or not they believed what you
believe, that what you believe (again, as an article of religious faith)
is, as I said, empirical fact.
The word "truth," as you use it here, is ambiguous and, arguably,
quibbling and equivocating. "Truth" has empirical and objective
connotations, so to use it when you are referring to something out of
subjectively-held religious doctrine or dogma, without specifically stating
clearly that that's what you're doing, could easily be perceived as
misleading. That is, it could easily appear that you are holding out your
religious belief as being empirically factual, which, as I pointed out
above, simply cannot be the case. Ever. Plus, it reveals how weak your
faith is.
Any attempt even to suggest, let alone to argue, that some article of
religious faith is "reality" or "truth," such that those who don't share
your religious views are, nevertheless, bound, empirically, by such
article, is insulting to any American who values the free exercise clause
of the First Amendment. And if something like that is done by the
government, it's a violation of the establishment clause, and it is called,
in its hardball forms, theocracy. Like "under God," in the pledge of
allegiance, and "In God We Trust," on our currency.
The reality I stated is that people are dual natured.
But, you framed this duality as an article of religious faith. Within
that particular welter, it cannot be "reality," to the extent that
"reality" is what is experienced by people who reject your religious
beliefs. And if you're attempting to convince others that your article of
faith is empirically real, as opposed to imaginary or subjectively
faith-based, then you reveal, as I said previously, how weak your faith is.
However, if you want to take your observation out of your religion,
and provide some empirical, and objectively-appraisable, evidence of
duality, to place it within the welter of, let's say, sociology (I picked
that particular discipline because you and I have been here before,
Stewart, and I rely upon the definition of sociology that I proposed last
time, which was "the scientific study of human interaction"), then your
attempt to convince me, scientifically, of the duality of nature becomes,
well, scientific, and, thus, it says nothing at all about your religious
faith. Or anyone else's.
I cant remember the old axiom but I think it is keep your friends close,
but keep your enemies closer.
That was Michael Corleone (Al Pacino), in "The Godfather II," talking
to Frank Pentangeli (Michael Vincente Gazzo) about Hyman Roth (Lee Strasberg).
Maybe you're more perspicacious than I, but I don't see the
application of that saying to this discussion. But you can probably fill
entire libraries with books of stuff that I don't see or understand.
BTW, Pentangeli's salient remark in the above scene was something
like, "Your father did BUSINESS with Hyman Roth. Your father RESPECTED
Hyman Roth. But your father never TRUSTED Hyman Roth."
Bob
I'm on the case, from outer space!
OK
End
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