------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar.
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: new conlang- B�huenagwon
From: David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Help with sound changes
From: Trebor Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Hebrew spelling
From: David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
From: Jan van Steenbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Re: new conlang- B�huenagwon
From: Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: The Grammar of Hebrew
From: "Adrian Morgan (aka Flesh-eating Dragon)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: Hebrew spelling
From: "Isaac A. Penzev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: Article wierdness
From: Ray Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Conlang Flag: Voting
From: "Adrian Morgan (aka Flesh-eating Dragon)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 14:25:13 -0700
From: Arthaey Angosii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
Emaelivpeith Philippe Caquant:
> [A remark to another remark: flags haven't to be
> exactly of the same shape or size. "The most common
> proportions [for national flags] are 2:3 (this applies
> to more than half of all flags), about 20 per cent of
> flags having dimension of 1:2 and only 9 per cent 3:5
> (1). Two flags alone are square (2), and one is
> neither rectangular nor square (3)" (Flags & Coats of
> Arms, Ludvik Mucha & Stanislav Valasek, GRP Praha 1987
> - this has probably evolved since).
I was the one who suggested making the flags the same size. It's not
that I think there is the One True Ratio or anything like that. If we
all voted in favor of, say, a platypus-shaped flag, that'd be cool
with me. It's just that, for viewing all these images more easily,
it's nice if they all fit in the same table column width. The
originals range from 200-something to 600-something, so that made for
quite some size variation.
--
AA
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:29:52 -0400
From: Roger Mills <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
Shanthanu wrote:
> Do you have any reasons for wanting to remove the curves? I've put up
> a
> version without curves at
> http://home.iitk.ac.in/student/shanth/images/nocurves.png
Well now, _I_ think that's very nice, and hope someone will second the
motion. (1) It definitely looks like a flag! (2) It is nicely abstract (and
might be somewhat mysterious to the uninitiated), yet symbolically
incorporates the original colors and the original concept of two mouths and
intertwined tongues.
The version with the two characters struck me as cluttered-- esp. the
Chinese character, which would probably give the flagmaker a problem.
Neither character, I suspect, would show up well on a small version. Also,
anything from a modern, living language suggests a favoritism or bias that
is surely not intended. Lastly, as was mentioned in connection with some
other designs, words don't seem appropriate on a flag. Clearly I don't
object to the hieroglyph in the other designs--where it has a more purely
symbolic function (even though I suppose it does represent a _word_, albeit
a dead one).
The other design, with the curvy things, is marginally better, since it
stays at an abstract level, but in both designs I think the additions
detract from the otherwise very clean appearance.
Just my personal feelings, of course.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:33:00 EDT
From: David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: new conlang- B�huenagwon
Whoa... Man, how did you even *think* of this? This is really out
there. Anyway...
Rodlox wrote:
<<from part of the Babel Text: 'to shape and sunbake clay'� =� stye-�rr'eo
yols-e chak
Word order is Subject-Verb-Etc.>>
When you present thing on the list, rather than giving a wordlist
and a sentence, it's best to give an interlinear gloss. This came up not
long ago--check the archives. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't
have posted your wordlist, because it was also interesting. But when
you actually post a sentence in your language, an interlinear allows
people to understand what your sentence says without having to look
anything up. What you've got is kind of difficult to parse, but an
interlinear might look something like this:
stye-�rr'eo yols-e chak
/clay-bake-sunbake do-? "and then"/
"To shape and sunbake clay"
[Note: There's a question mark in there because you give no gloss for the
/-e/ suffix attached to /yols/.]
Anyway, even this wouldn't be much help, because, well, languages don't
usually look like this. It's not like they can't--they just don't usually.
One
thing I'm reminded of is a post that Dirk Elzinga made. He posted a text
about Coyote, and one of the verbs had the word "eye" in the interlinear
gloss. I was really confused by this, because it's not something you
usually
see. He replied that, like many Amerind languages, certain verbs can take
body part affixes, and they're understood to be the part of the body affected
by the action.
Anyway, what this reminds me of is actually, like I was saying before, Eskimo
languages. In a language like Inuvialuktun (or Siglitun, or something.
They're
never clear on what the official names are...), you have nouns and verbs, and
they're really very much nouns and very much verbs. Then, however, you
have a huge list of suffixes. These suffixes do *everything*. There are
suffixes
that many people are used to, that do things like make something augmentative
or diminutive, etc. Then there are suffixes that do quite amazing things.
For
example:
-Adjectival: /-aluk/ = "old", so /qaya-aluk/ = "an old canoe"
-Adverbial: /-ffaaq/ = "to do again", so if /niuqqaqtuq/ = "he's having tea",
then
/niuqqaffaaqtuq/ = "he's having tea again", or "he's having some more tea"
-Stative: /-giit/ = "to have poor x", so if /iri/ = "eye", then /irigiitchuq/
= "he has poor eyesight"
-Modal: /-huk/ = "to want to", so /niriruq/ = "he's eating", and /nirihuktuq/
= "he wants to eat"
-Nominal: /-kraq/ = "material used to make x", so /tupiq/ = "tent", and
/tupikraq/ = "tent canvas"
-Inflectional: /-lait/ = "never", so /havaktuq/ = "he's working", and
/havalaitchuq/ = "he never works"
-Active Verbal: /-li/ = "to build", so /iglu/ = "house", and /igluliruq/ =
"he's building a house"
-Conjunctive: /-lu/ = "and", so /nanuq/ = "polar bear", and /amaruq/ =
"wolf", so /nanurlu amarurlu/ =
"the polar bear and the wolf"
So those are some examples. What's interesting about your language, in
comparison to the language above (I want to call it Uummarmiut...?), is
that the language above has one level of suffixation. That is, you add a
suffix, and that's the end of it. What your language seems to suggest is
that there's multiple levels of suffixation. So let's call "to bake" a
verb, which
incorporates is direct object as a prefix (or, perhaps, a verbal suffix
attached
to a noun which then becomes the object of that verb--whatever). Once
you've got your verb, however, there are further suffixes that attach only
to the verb "to bake x", and which further specify how the baking is
accomplished.
That's pretty interesting. It also means that suffixes can be recycled--in
other
words, the suffix /-'ea/ (oh: what's the apostrophe for?) can be used with
every single verb, and could mean something different each time. Or perhaps
it could have a locus of meanings, all interrelated. If you were going for
naturalness,
I'd recommend doing it that way. The way it looks now, it almost looks like
you're
creating a kind of...engelang? Is that the right word? Anyway, everything
looks
very regular--phonologically. There's no real need for that.
On the other hand, for this to work, I think there needs to be a clear
distinction
between what's a suffix and what's not. Either that, or everything's a
suffix, and
order is what determines meaning.
Anyway, back to your text:
stye-�rr'eo yols-e chak
/clay-bake-sunbake do-? "and then"/
"To shape and sunbake clay"
First of all, I think you made a mistake: /yols/ should be /yals/.
Second, the verb /yals/ seems to have inherited the direct object
of the first verb. Did /chak/ do that? If so, is there a conjunction
that can make it so that it inherits the subject and not the direct
object, or maybe both--or neither? Second, it'd be nice to know
what the /-e/ suffix does. Infinitive form? If so, an updated
interlinear might look like this:
stye-�rr'eo yals-e chak
/clay-"to sunbake x" shape-INF. "and then"/
"To shape and sunbake clay."
When I want to put lots of words into something that's monomorphemic,
so to speak, I put it in quotes. So what I did was I smashed /-�rr/ and
/-'eo/
together (no need to get *that* specific, unless that's the sole point of the
post), to make /-�rr'eo/, the verb which means "to sunbake x", and you
might explain somewhere in the post that when this suffix gets attached to
a noun, the noun becomes the direct object of that verbal suffix, and the
whole thing becomes the verbal unit, "to sunbake clay". Now all it needs to
do is combine with a subject. [Man, have you ever taken any formal
semantics?
This is starting to remind me of that.]
As for the verb /yals-e/, if that /-e/ suffix really is an infitival suffix,
I recommend
getting rid of it--no need for infinitives here. You might also explain how
/chak/ makes it so that the direct object is inherited.
Finally, this statement you made...
<<Word order is Subject-Verb-Etc.>>
...is clearly not true. The linear order you have is this: (1) clay; (2)
sunbake; (3) shape;
(4) and. There is no subject, but there is no place in this sentence that
you can stick a
subject that would cause it to occur directly before the verb. (Well,
unless it was a suffix
to the direct object, giving you OSV order.) It looks to me like the word
order will be
SOV (subject-object-verb), unless you don't think of the object as an actual
argument, but
a suffix, in which case you could make an argument for SV word order--if
that's where
the subject goes. But there is no subject in this sentence. Can you give
us a sentence with
a subject? But don't start off with something complex like "to sunbake and
shape clay".
Start with something simple. How about:
The man sees the dog.
That should answer a lot of questions. But when you give us that sentence,
try doing
an interlinear like in the example I gave. Leipzig also made some rules for
this, but they
might be too hard to understand, for now, so just try to emulate the example
above.
Then, there are other questions, like "Why is 'volcano' a suffix and not
'clay'?", but those
can be saved for another time.
Oh, and one more thing: Don't use letters like /�/ and /�/ and /�/. Many
people can't
read them (i.e., they're changed into strange characters). Instead, it
might behoove you
to learn X-SAMPA, the explanation of which can be found here:
http://coral.lili.uni-bielefeld.de/langdoc/EGA/Formats/Sampa/sampa.html
Anyway, man, you've got some really wild ideas. How did you think this
stuff up?
-David
*******************************************************************
"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:44:14 -0400
From: Trebor Jung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Help with sound changes
Could anyone check these sound changes for realisticness? Any other feedback
is welcome...
Thanks,
Trebor
Grand Master Plan (GMP)
This is the Grand Master Plan (GMP) which I am using to derive a new
language from English. This project aims not only to derive a phonologically
different language from Modern English (namely the Southern Ontario dialect
of Canada), but also a grammatically and lexically different one. Below are
listed all the sound changes I employed, using X-Sampa.
Consonants
p_h, p>p
p_h, p>? (when not starting a stressed syllable)
b>p
b>p>? (syllable-finally)
m>m
m=>m@
f>f
f>p>? (syllable-finally)
v>f
v>f>p>? (when not starting a stressed syllable)
T>t
D>d>t
t_h, t>t
d>t
n=n
n=>n@
tS)>k
tS)>k>? (syllable-finally)
dZ)>g>k
dZ)>g>k>? (syllable-finally)
s>s
z>s
r\>4 (syllable-initially; see the vowels section below)
r\=>3
l>l
l=??
S>C
Z>j\>C
k_h, k>k
k>? (syllable-finally)
g>k
h>?
Consonant Clusters
pr\>P
pl>tK)
br\>P
bl>pl>tK)
pt>t:>t
bd>*d:>d
fl>K
tr\>ts)
dr\>dz)>ts)
sp_h>p:>p
sp_hr\>P
sm>m:>m
st>s:>s
st_hr\>ts)
sn>n:>n
sl>K
sk>S>C
sk_hr\>h4>4
kt>t:>t
ks>s:>s
kr\>h4>4
kl>*hl>K
gz>z:>*z>s
gr\>h4>4
gl>K
kw>k
Vowels
i>i:
ir\>i:
I>i
E>e
er\>e:
&>A
A>A
Ar\>a:
V>@
word-final A>@ in polysyllabic words
Diphthongs
@U)r\>o:
@U)>o
U>3
u>u
AI)>A:
EI)>e:
OI)>o:
&U)>A:
m, n>0, nasalizing the previous vowel
wi>u:j>u:
wI>Uj>u
wE>ew>ju>y
wA>Aw>A:
[EMAIL PROTECTED])>o:
wAI)>A:w>A:
wEI)>e:w>ju:>y:
jA>A:
jE>e:
[EMAIL PROTECTED])>o:
ju>y
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 17:45:22 -0400
From: David H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hebrew spelling
I also have a few problems regarding the spelling of vav...for example,
when vocalised the word "me'od" (very) does not contain a vav, but I have
seen it written with and without in unpointed text, the same for "hodu"
(India).
Is it more common to write vav's in unpointed text, even when they are not
used in vocalised? Also, The word "rosh" (as in rosh chodesh) is
spelled "resh alef shin", but I've never seen this with a vav.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 23:43:53 +0100
From: Jan van Steenbergen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang Flag: Voting
--- Arthaey Angosii skrzypszy:
> > It was originally a vertical list - no table - but, as I'm sure
> > you'll remember, Jan van Steenbergen wrote: [...]
> >
> > I changed it because of that feedback, and only for that reason.
> > Personally, I'm happy either way.
>
> I agree with Jan, a table is a good idea. I just don't agree that a
> *single-row* table is great. :)
>
> For an example of what I mean, go here:
>
> http://arthaey.mine.nu:8080/~arthaey/flagvote.html
Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind, too!
> While I understand your concern over resizing images and getting
> ugly, not-as-originally-intended-to-be-viewed results, I disagree
> that in this particular case it causes substantial harm.
Fully agreed. Especially since many flags (especially my own) were
rough sketches anyway. Making them a bit smaller wouldn't do any
harm; making them substantially bigger would, though.
> So, I think that the table layout with the standardized flags is
> much easier to read, especially for comparing variations of one
> design.
Yeah, I think your sample page is excellent!
Jan
=====
"If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping in a closed room
with a mosquito."
Relay 10/R - schedule: <http://steen.free.fr/relay10/schedule.html>
- rules: <http://steen.free.fr/relay10/intro.html>
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger -
all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 7
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 02:15:19 +0200
From: Rodlox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Re: new conlang- B�huenagwon
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: new conlang- B�huenagwon
Whoa... Man, how did you even *think* of this?
The Babel text, actually...that and thinking about Ancient Egypt, where they *did*
make bricks by hand.
That's pretty interesting. It also means that suffixes can be recycled--in other
words, the suffix /-'ea/ (oh: what's the apostrophe for?)
mostly for the benefit of the person reading or writing...distinguishing between,
say, "the Faroe Islands" and "Far'oe", for example.
do is combine with a subject. [Man, have you ever taken any formal semantics?
I took English classes in Elementary School; does that count?
:)
Then, there are other questions, like "Why is 'volcano' a suffix and not 'clay'?",
but those
can be saved for another time.
because you can erupt, but you can't clay. :)
read them (i.e., they're changed into strange characters). Instead, it might
behoove you
to learn X-SAMPA, the explanation of which can be found here:
http://coral.lili.uni-bielefeld.de/langdoc/EGA/Formats/Sampa/sampa.html
oi vey...that again.
Anyway, man, you've got some really wild ideas. How did you think this stuff up?
boredom, in part.
[This message contained attachments]
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 8
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:03:18 +0930
From: "Adrian Morgan (aka Flesh-eating Dragon)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Grammar of Hebrew
Steg Belsky wrote:
> Okay, for some reason i haven't gotten Adrian's message, but i've
> gotten Philip's response to it. Weird.
In the Conlang archives:
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0409b&L=conlang&P=8644
Adrian.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 9
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 09:46:21 +0300
From: "Isaac A. Penzev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Hebrew spelling
Katav David H:
> I also have a few problems regarding the spelling of vav...for example,
> when vocalised the word "me'od" (very) does not contain a vav, but I have
> seen it written with and without in unpointed text, the same for "hodu"
> (India).
> Is it more common to write vav's in unpointed text, even when they are not
> used in vocalised?
There are two types of spelling: "incomplete" - as written in the Bible -
that uses additional consonant characters to denote vowels (called "matres
lectionis" - mothers of reading) inconsistently, and "complete" (the modern
one since 1968), where *all* [o] and [u] are spelt as vavs, and all [e] and
[i] (except that originates from two schwas in line) are spelt as yods.
> Also, The word "rosh" (as in rosh chodesh) is
> spelled "resh alef shin", but I've never seen this with a vav.
Although, if there is already a m.l. in the word (as alef here), you need no
vav any more ;)
-- Yitzik
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 10
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 07:54:46 +0100
From: Ray Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Article wierdness
On Saturday, September 11, 2004, at 06:01 , Muke Tever wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 11:01:17 -0400, John Cowan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Mark J. Reed scripsit:
>>
>>> > This is why I keep arguing that the French
>>>
>>> /Spanish/Italian/etc
>>
>> No, I think French is really different here.
>
> In general certainly, but probably not in the case of body parts; the
> Spanish construction "levanta la mano" is equal to the French "levez la
> main".
Yes, the uses do coincide here where we're talking about body parts (and
other things) belonging to the subject. This merely harks back to Latin
usage of not expressing 'my', 'your' etc if the context is obvious.
But John is right. In many important respects, the use of the so-called
definite article is different in modern French from its counterpart in
other Romancelangs and certainly from the English definite article.
==========================================================================
On Saturday, September 11, 2004, at 05:57 , John Cowan wrote:
Philippe Caquant scripsit:
>> Suppose the incipit of a novel is: [...]
>
> Well, narration is not interlocution. It's a special case:
Quite so. If we used narration as the norm we would conclude that the
'past historic' is still widely used in modern French. In fact, it's not
used in the spoken language.
> I don't think you can draw general conclusions based on this usage.
Indeed not.
>> So the choice between "a" or "the", at least in an
>> incipit, is something very important; and "the" is
>> much more marked, and expressive, that "a", in English
>> like in French, I guess.
>
> Indeed, there are places where the definite article most certainly
> is contrastive, but there are also many places where it isn't, and is
> just a submission to the Modern French rule that (all but a very few)
> noun phrases must start with a determiner
That's correct. In Old French, the definite article was far more
restrictive; in general it was used whenever a particular noun was to be
singled out or individualized. Abstract nouns, proper names, names of
nationalities in the lural (Franceis, Sarrazins), nouns that denotes
unique objects (ciel, terre), seasons and points of time (printemps, matin,
dimanche) did _not_ take the definite article. Nor was the article uaed,
as it is in modern French, when the noun is used in a generic sense.
The extension of the use of the definite article took place during the
Middle french period in parallel with the break down of the Old French
declensions and the dropping of final [s] in speech. The article came to
be used, like other determinatives, to mark difference between singular &
plural. So by the Modern French period, the omission of any article
implies that the noun is no longer purely sunstantival but has combined
with the verb to form what is practically a compound verb (e.g. _avoir
peur_ "to be afraid") or with a preposition to form what is in effect an
adverbial expression (e.g. _avec courage_ "courageously", _� tort_
"wrongly").
>> ??? To me, "mange du pain" just expresses a partitive.
>>
>> If you say "mange du pain" to a child sitting at a
>> table, it just means that some bread is supposed to be
>> around, and that the child is not supposed to eat the
>> whole of it. No need that bread has be mentioned
>> before.
>
> True for Modern French, but in Old French things were different (sorry
> if it wasn't clear what contrast I was drawing before). Old French used
> "mange pain" for this meaning, and "mange du pain" only when "the bread"
> was clearly definite.
That's exactly it.
>>> in particular, masculine nouns take -s in the
>>> singular and drop it
>>> in the plural.
>>
>> ??? I suppose it depends of what noun, and probably
>> what function inside the sentence (subject, direct or
>> indirect object).
>
> Yes. I omitted to add the qualifier "in the nominative case".
Yep.
SINGULAR PLURAL
NOMINATIVE murs mur
OBLIQUE mur murs
To this declension belonged all nouns from Latin second declension ending
in -us (including those that were incorporated in Vulgar Latin), Latin 3rd
declension masculine parisyllabic nouns with nom. ending in -(i)s (e.g.
panis --> pains) and Latin neuters in -um and -r (e.g. chastels, cuers).
[snip]
> Sire/seigneur is one of the few survivals of the old two-case system.
Yep.
> For the most part the nominative forms perished, but a few (e.g.
> coeur < COR) out-competed the accusative counterparts (cf. It. corde),
..as did _soeur_ (O.F. nom. _suer_, obl. _soror_
> or as in this case survived as separate words. The most striking
> such case is Old French om, the nominative of homme, which became
> the pronoun on.
Old French
SINGULAR PLURAL
NOMINATIVE (h)om (h)ome
OBLIQUE (h)ome (h)omes
>> Anyway, I guess that the language was far from
>> strictly codified then, and that there were lots of
>> concurrent dialects.
Of course - the Academy didn't exist :)
> It definitely was not strictly codified, and can be best described
> as basically Francien (a term not used at the time) with Picard
> influences, and occasional leakage from other dialects. Furthermore
> most of the surviving manuscripts were written in England, and so
> use Anglo-Norman spelling conventions: these are often rationalized
> away by modern editors.
Yep - and down south another language called Proven�al is well attested
and, for a time, had a flourishing literature. It also originally had the
nominative ~ oblique declension system, but in many ways was quite
distinct from Francien.
Ray
===============================================
http://home.freeuk.com/ray.brown
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
===============================================
"They are evidently confusing science with technology."
UMBERTO ECO September, 2004
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
Message: 11
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 18:55:02 +0930
From: "Adrian Morgan (aka Flesh-eating Dragon)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Conlang Flag: Voting
Arthaey Angosii wrote:
> I'm not sure if I sounded argumentative in my original post,
A little bit (pedantic is a better word) especially when you were
commenting on such trivial things as the fact that errors are reported
in reverse order.
For my part, I was replying after midnight. It's possible that if I
had been less tired, there would have been sentences that I'd have
noticed a better way of phrasing.
> While I understand your concern over resizing images and getting ugly,
> not-as-originally-intended-to-be-viewed results, I disagree that in
> this particular case it causes substantial harm.
I've thought about it some more and here's what I've decided.
On the voting form, the images are there for only one reason - to show
the voter which code corresponds to which image. Everyone who votes
will have already viewed the images and descriptions on the
conlangflags.htm page. So it's OK to have re-sized images (basically
thumbnails) on the voting form, even if some information is lost,
because the full images are on display elsewhere anyway. So I'll use
re-sized images.
However, I would like the voter to be able to view the full-sized
images as conveniently as possible. What is the HTML code to make the
target of a link (in this case an image) appear in a new window?
The revision I'm working on involves a table of three columns,
containing images of width 240 in cells of width 250. I think that
this format will work well, provided I can let the user view a
full-size version of each image in a new window by clicking on it.
Shanth wrote:
> One more suggestion about the php page wouldn't it be better if similar
> flags (ie. the ones with the same theme) were put in as a single category so
> that we can maybe have a second round of voting to decide upon the final
> form of the flag.
No, it's best for each flag to have a seperate code. Because it's a
preferential voting system, no flag is under any disadvantage or
advantage on account of being similar to another flag. However, once a
winner has been identified, we can always decide afterwards whether we
want to propose variations and have a second round of voting.
Philippe Caquant wrote:
> I don't remember if it has
> been noticed that you can mark, for ex, "equal in
> preference to number 11" without giving any letter as
> number 12. It seems that the program doesn't really
> care, but to me the error should be mentioned to the
> voter.
Sure you can - but this is not an error. The code automatically sets
the "equal in preference" variables to "true" between blank entries,
which is the way it should be.
> Also, I submitted several times as "Tarzan" without
> being rejected. I suppose there will be a human
> intervention at that level ? In case the pseudo is
> perfectly free, let's hope that there won't be two
> people using the same one, otherwise both votes will
> be considered null (?)
If more than one votes is received with the same name, I'll find out
who possesses that name and email them to ask which vote should be
counted. If you use an untraceable pseudonym, you do so at your own
risk.
> Of course, what
> will happen of the votes, and will the result be fair,
> is quite another question.
The author of the condorcet voting calculator I plan to use writes,
"I cannot guarantee the accuracy of these results and recommend they
be computed by hand". Nevertheless, I see no reason not to trust that
it will be accurate.
I'm perfectly willing to publish all the votes (with the voters' names
deleted, of course) if there is an interest in this.
Adrian.
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
