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There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. NATLANG: Latin prefixes with er/ra
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: CHAT National toponyms
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Conlang IRC server
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: new Unnamed Conlang
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Anti-Chomsky Insults (was: ? how would you classify this language ?)
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: NATLANG: Latin prefixes with er/ra
From: Philippe Caquant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: CHAT National toponyms
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: consport/congaming
From: Rik Roots <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Re: CHAT National toponyms
From: Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: Construct Case
From: David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Re: CHAT National toponyms
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 03:12:53 -0400
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: NATLANG: Latin prefixes with er/ra
There are a few that I can think of (knowing no Latin):
super-/supra-
ulter-/ultra-
infer-/infra-
inter-/intra-
Is there some kind of pattern, other than that the first of each pair can
prefix "-ior" in English? Or, indeed, is that itself a pattern that I'm
too dense to work out? It's not[*] equitive vs comparative, it's not
comparative vs superlative, it's not location vs direction, it's not
proximal vs distal, and it's not any of a half dozen other things that
have passed through my brain.
Whatever the pattern is, I suspect that knowing it would shed light for me
onto some greater issue with Latin, or possibly PIE.
Thanks in advance for any concrete solutions, or crackpot theories,
[*] Note throughout this sentence, the arrogantoid voice applied to the
essive: I can't understand how it is, therefore it is not.
Paul
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:13:55 +0300
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CHAT National toponyms
On Sep 17, 2004, at 10:17 PM, Douglas Koller, Latin & French wrote:
> Ray writes:
>> Indeed, there wasn't. There were originally three Angle kingdoms: The
>> West Angles, the Middle Angles and the East Angles.
> That would make them the tri-Angles, nyuk, nyuk.
> Kou
Is that another one of those strangely-spelled English clicks, like the
mythical |tsk|?
Or is it actually pronounced something like /njVk/?
-Stephen (Steg)
"i defend myself, therefore i exist."
~ herbert pagani
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:50:56 +0300
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang IRC server
On Sep 17, 2004, at 1:36 PM, Robert wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> Hey,
> I have been pretty bored lately, and I have a couple of boxes laying
> around
> the house. I was thinking of setting up an IRC server, and it dawned
> on me
> that CONLANG could talk in a channel there as well. Give me some feed
> back
> and if people are okay with it, I'll fire it up :)
> - Robert Hill
> Robir Yil
I remember people did that a while ago... they made a #conlang channel
over on... Dalnet, i think it was. As far as i know, it's been defunct
for a few years.
-Stephen (Steg)
"i defend myself, therefore i exist."
~ herbert pagani
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:01:23 +0300
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: new Unnamed Conlang
On Sep 17, 2004, at 7:39 PM, John Cowan wrote:
> All this paralinguistic stuff has very strange phonology and stranger
> orthography. I remember being quite surprised as a child to discvoer
> that written "tsk" meant a click, and that written "er" was just a
> non-rhotic spelling of [EMAIL PROTECTED], aka "uh".
I actually only learned those recently, from being on Conlang :) .
[tIsk tIsk tIsk]... ;)
-Stephen (Steg)
"i defend myself, therefore i exist."
~ herbert pagani
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:24:43 +0300
From: Steg Belsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Anti-Chomsky Insults (was: ? how would you classify this language ?)
On Sep 17, 2004, at 2:42 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
>> No. The whole reason that they proposed gaps and movement was that
> their syntax didn't match up with the extent word order. So when they
> talk about "word order", they mean surface word order--otherwise all
> languages would have the same word order (at least, according to some
> linguists). >
> Don't they???? (Signed, Noam) :-)))))))
Noam Chomsky's first name is generally pronounced /no:m/, right? (as
opposed to other "Noam"s where the /a/ is pronounced).
So i was wondering, do any of his ideological/theory-disagreeing
opponents call him "the Gnome" /no:m/ as an insult? ;-)
-Stephen (Steg)
"i defend myself, therefore i exist."
~ herbert pagani
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Message: 6
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 00:56:26 -0700
From: Philippe Caquant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: NATLANG: Latin prefixes with er/ra
My Latin dictionary gives both 'super' and 'supra',
both as adverbs and prepositions, with very closely
the same meaning. 'Super' (prep.) is said to be used
with Acc or Abl, while 'supra' (prep) with Acc only.
Super as a prefix seems to be far more used than
supra, in Latin already (dozens of words beginning
with super- , while only 5 mentioned to begin with
supra- : supracaelestis, supradictus, suprajacio,
suprascando, suprascribo). The same dissymetry can be
found for French, see for ex:
http://www.listes.ortograf.com/index7.html
(words beginning with super- or supra- and admitted at
Scrabble. 187 words beginning with super- , only 15
with supra-)
I guess using a supra- prefix just makes you look very
erudite, while super- is common. On the other hand,
ulter- and infer- are not prefixes in French, while
ultra- and infra- are. Inter- and intra- are both used
as prefixes (international, but intraveineuse).
--- Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There are a few that I can think of (knowing no
> Latin):
>
> super-/supra-
> ulter-/ultra-
> infer-/infra-
> inter-/intra-
>
> Is there some kind of pattern, other than that the
> first of each pair can
> prefix "-ior" in English? Or, indeed, is that itself
> a pattern that I'm
> too dense to work out? It's not[*] equitive vs
> comparative, it's not
> comparative vs superlative, it's not location vs
> direction, it's not
> proximal vs distal, and it's not any of a half dozen
> other things that
> have passed through my brain.
>
> Whatever the pattern is, I suspect that knowing it
> would shed light for me
> onto some greater issue with Latin, or possibly PIE.
>
> Thanks in advance for any concrete solutions, or
> crackpot theories,
>
> [*] Note throughout this sentence, the arrogantoid
> voice applied to the
> essive: I can't understand how it is, therefore it
> is not.
>
Is this a voice ? I would have said a modality (the
IMHOive one).
=====
Philippe Caquant
Barbarus hic ego sum, quia non intellegor illis (Ovidius).
Populus me sibilat, at mihi plaudo (Horatius).
Interdum stultus opportune loquitur (Henry Fielding).
Scire leges non hoc est verba earum tenere, sed vim ac potestatem (Somebody).
Melius est ut scandalum oriatur, quam ut veritas relinquatur (Somebody else).
Ceterum censeo *vi* esse oblitterandum (Me).
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:16:22 +0100
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CHAT National toponyms
John Cowan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Why, if what I said is untrue, was it agreed at the time that the reigning
>>monarch of the UK would take the higher number out of the English & Scots
>>lines of monarchs?
>>
>>
>
>To clarify: at the time of Elizabeth's accession, that is. But if
>applied retroactively, no monarchs since 1707 would change numbers.
>The Scottish monarchs had a lot more different names, so their numbers
>tend to be lower.
>
>
>
William IV should be William III in Scotland.
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Message: 8
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:28:40 +0100
From: Rik Roots <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: consport/congaming
On Friday 17 Sep 2004 15:58, Mark J. Reed wrote:
> Is there a separate list for conculturing vs. conlanging? I was
> wondering if anyone had created new sports that are played in their
> conculture. Would seem to be a good source of specialized vocabulary
> needing no gloss. Or tabletop games (card/board), for that matter . .
> .
I pulled together a few webpages to describe one of the sports played on my
conworld Kalieda. It's called Gvekuu and can be found at:
http://www.kalieda.org/Games/index.html
> -Marcos
>
Rik
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:00:23 +1200
From: Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CHAT National toponyms
And you've forgetting:
Duchess of Normandy a.k.a. The Channel Islands
which aren't part of the United Kingdom, since Normandy isn't part of Britain.
Ditto the Isle of Man / Manx, which is also under a specific agreement with
the English Crown - precisely what IDK. ;)
Wesley Parish
On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 16:04, John Cowan wrote:
> Ray Brown scripsit:
> > Indeed, strictly she is not only Queen of the United Kingdom either; she
> > is Queen of Canada, Australia, New Zealand and one or other places IIRC.
>
> Here are Elizabeth's styles:
>
> In the U.K.: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United
> Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and Her other Realms and
> Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
>
> In Canada: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United
> Kingdom, Canada and Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the
> Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith.
>
> In New Zealand: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of New
> Zealand and Her other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth,
> Defender of the Faith.
>
> In Jamaica: Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of Jamaica and
> of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth.
>
> In Australia, Barbados, the Bahamas, Grenada, Papua New Guinea, the
> Solomon Islands, Tuvalu, St. Lucia, St. Vincent and the Grenadines,
> Belize, Antigua and Barbuda, and St. Christopher and Nevis: Elizabeth
> the Second, by the Grace of God, Queen of <name of country> and Her
> other Realms and Territories, Head of the Commonwealth.
>
> In the U.S.: Mrs. Mountbatten-Windsor. :-)
>
> > Why, if what I said is untrue, was it agreed at the time that the
> > reigning monarch of the UK would take the higher number out of the
> > English & Scots lines of monarchs?
>
> To clarify: at the time of Elizabeth's accession, that is. But if
> applied retroactively, no monarchs since 1707 would change numbers.
> The Scottish monarchs had a lot more different names, so their numbers
> tend to be lower.
>
> > Nah - the UK is a unique institution, with much of its
> > constitution unwritten, designed to mystify all furriners ;)
>
> Not just foreigners, but natives too, I think.
>
> > So presumably he would be the third Charlie both north &
> >
> > >What is he worried about? That if he is crowned as Charles III, he will
> > >offend the large and powerful :-) Jacobite faction which applies that
> > >title to Charles II's son?
> >
> > I doubt it very much - in any case Charles II had no legitimate sons (or
> > daughters, for that matter), and was succeeded by his brother.
>
> I doubt it too. I was of course thinking of the Young Pretender,
> Charles II's great-nephew.
>
> > But 'George' is one of the Prince of Wales's names!
>
> So it is: Charles Philip Arthur George, no less.
>
> > Many people had been hoping he would choose one of his other names,
> > 'Arthur' (which BTW, unlike either Charles or George, is spelled the
> > same in Welsh as in English).
>
> Perhaps he didn't feel he could live up to being King Arthur.
>
> --
> Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
--
Wesley Parish
* * *
Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. RIP James Blish
* * *
Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?"
You ask, "What is the most important thing?"
Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata."
I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people."
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Message: 10
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 05:09:19 EDT
From: David Peterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Construct Case
Jeffrey Henning wrote:
<<For Dublex II though I've been thinking of a locative postposition that
makes a noun phrase adjectival.� Something like "woman AGENT child FOCUS house
LOCATIVE-ADJ food PATIENT gave." This would be in addition to a locative case
that described the location of the verb.>>
This is actually what Zhyler does, only it's slightly more fun, because
there's no marker for adjectives if the adjective modifies something in
the nominative, or in something in a nonnominative case *and* it ends
in a vowel. Anyway, an example of the first would be something like
this:
ezdZe-z ZijkM SMNkM-s gaban-ar el-ler.
/house-INE.-ADJ. woman-NOM. child-DAT. food-ACC. give-PAST/
"The woman in the house gave food to the child."
[Note: INE. stands for "inessive".]
What would be even more interesting is if Zhyler allowed PP fronting--
but it doesn't. At least not like that. So if it's the action that's
meant to
be taking place in the house, the PP must come directly before the verb:
ZijkM SMNkM-s gaban-ar ezdZe-z el-ler.
/woman-NOM. child-DAT. food-ACC. house-INE. give-PAST/
"The woman gave the child food (and this happened) in the house."
Hmm... You know, I've been trying to think up an ambiguous one, but
I think it's air-tight. Oh well. Ambiguity arises elsewhere in Zhyler.
;)
-David
*******************************************************************
"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
[This message contained attachments]
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Message: 11
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:23:49 +0100
From: Joe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CHAT National toponyms
Wesley Parish wrote:
>And you've forgetting:
>Duchess of Normandy a.k.a. The Channel Islands
>
>
Duke, actually.
>which aren't part of the United Kingdom, since Normandy isn't part of Britain.
>
>Ditto the Isle of Man / Manx, which is also under a specific agreement with
>the English Crown - precisely what IDK. ;)
>
>
She's Lord of Man. This occured after the UK bought it in 1765.
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