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There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Christmas/Holidays
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2. Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4. Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
From: Aaron Grahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6. Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: Jefferson Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: Scotto Hlad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9. Person Marking On Nouns
From: Chris Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10. Re: Person Marking On Nouns
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: R A Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12. Re: Christmas/Holidays
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13. Re: Systematic Word Relationships (Was: Arabic and BACK and a whole
lot of other things.)
From: Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14. Re: Bell
From: Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 18:05:42 +0100
From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Christmas/Holidays
Hi!
Happy Holidays to y'all! Or better 'Merry Christmas' if you are
currently more involved in that as I am. :-) I cannot move
due to the delicious food I had to eat.
I will be regularly reading the list again by tomorrow.
Bye,
Henrik
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:25:36 -0800
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sai Emrys wrote at 2005-12-24 23:36:49 (-0800)
> > What format is .svg? I have Photoshop, and can't
> open it even in that...
> >
>
> Scalable Vector Graphics. You may be able to get a
> browser plugin
> that'll let you display it. Photoshop isn't
> primarily a vector
> graphics program, but you may be able to get a
> plugin for it too.
Paint Shop Pro reads .svg in version 9 and up for
sure. Version 5 and before didn't, but I don't know
about 6, 7, and 8 because I don't have those versions.
--gary
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Message: 3
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 09:30:54 -0800
From: Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
So what are the holiday greetings in your favorite
conlang?
Here is a posting by Yahya on the Yahoo Elomi group
that sums it up nicely:
o anxa a, aki'nonaxelo ofi!
[O everyone, day-holy happy]
(Happy Holidays, everyone! )
o amiko a, amasi'nexalisito omeli a, e atafu'nofu ofi
a!
[O friend, mass -Christ merry, and year-new happy]
(Friends, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!)
(original from Yahya on elomi group)
--gary
--- Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Happy Holidays to y'all! Or better 'Merry
> Christmas' if you are
> currently more involved in that as I am. :-) I
> cannot move
> due to the delicious food I had to eat.
>
> I will be regularly reading the list again by
> tomorrow.
>
> Bye,
> Henrik
>
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 11:55:31 -0800
From: Aaron Grahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
7 doesn't like svg.
þ
Gary Shannon wrote:
> Paint Shop Pro reads .svg in version 9 and up for
>
>sure. Version 5 and before didn't, but I don't know
>about 6, 7, and 8 because I don't have those versions.
>
>--gary
>
>
>
>
>
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 15:06:11 -0500
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:30:54 -0500, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So what are the holiday greetings in your favorite
> conlang?
Before I even embark on this for Thagojian, I'd like to find out the
native forms of the name of Jesus Christ in the relevant languages, to
whit Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew and Coptic.
Greek, I've got as ÎηÏÎ¿Ï Î§ÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï (Iesos Khristos), more or less,
and I
think his Aramaic/Hebrew name is something like Yeshua, so I'm going to go
with something like â ÎÌηϣÏ
Ï Î§ÏιÏÏ×Ï (<DINGIR>Yäshüt Khristöt /
<DINGIR>Yéshït Khristët, depending on transcription -- I may have to poll
the list at some point to the most favorable general purpose
transcription), barring any major interference, especially from Aramaic.
As for my other current projects, fuggeddaboutit. They're not even
remotely in a stable enough state.
Paul
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:16:00 +0100
From: taliesin the storyteller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Conlang flag in actual cloth
* Tim May said on 2005-12-25 05:07:54 +0100
> * Tim May wrote at 2005-12-24 23:48:14 (+0000)
> > * taliesin the storyteller wrote at 2005-12-24 15:26:49 (+0100)
> > > What we need is having the flag defined in a vector-format like
> > > svg.
> >
> > I started doing that too! I think I could have got it looking
> > pretty good, too, but actually it should be possible to do this
> > automatically. I'll see if I can accomplish anything...
>
> OK, how's this...
>
> http://www.atqz73.dsl.pipex.com/misc/conlangflag.svg
>
> Automatic tracing programs weren't quite as helpful as I'd hoped, but
> it probably took less time than it would have by hand.
Pretty good version of the hand-drawn flag, yes. Mine also started as an
auto-trace, then I tried cleaning it up and getting the various slopes
mathematically perfect :)
t., occasionally showing pedantic tendencies
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 25 Dec 2005 19:20:22 -0700
From: Jefferson Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
Gary Shannon wrote:
> So what are the holiday greetings in your favorite
> conlang?
The Glyphica Arcana can be found at
http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/myths/BabelTarot.html#HappyHolidays
( http://makeashorterlink.com/?R12621E5C )
The most literal translation would be "be happy these most sacred
days," but the use of possible imperative mood makes it "Joyful
Holidays!"
--
Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/myths/
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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 00:34:57 -0700
From: Scotto Hlad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
Rumansa says:
Nasvita Letana et Anu Prusèdu
Christmas happy and year propsperous.
O vum vule des fèstivus bunus.
I you wish holidays good.
Scotto
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jefferson Wilson
Sent: Sun, December 25, 2005 7:20 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
Gary Shannon wrote:
> So what are the holiday greetings in your favorite
> conlang?
The Glyphica Arcana can be found at
http://www.meanspc.com/~jeff_wilson63/myths/BabelTarot.html#HappyHolidays
( http://makeashorterlink.com/?R12621E5C )
The most literal translation would be "be happy these most sacred
days," but the use of possible imperative mood makes it "Joyful
Holidays!"
--
Jefferson
http://www.picotech.net/~jeff_wilson63/myths/
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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 08:43:12 +0000
From: Chris Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Person Marking On Nouns
A while ago on the ZBB and on the conlang list we had a discussion about
person marking on nouns, since I'd incorporated it into my conlang at
the time (which I'm doing a bit of work on at the moment). At the time I
had difficulty citing a clear example of a natlang that had such
marking. But, now I have "The Papuan Languages of New Guinea" (Christmas
Present) I can now reveal that such a natlang is: Alamblak, Sepik Hill
Family:
1sing: -a
2sing: ø
3m: -r
3f: -t
1dual: -në
2dual: -fin
3dual: -f
1pl: -nëm
2pl: kë(m)
3pl: -m
These seem to be clitics which attach to the end of the complete NP. Eg:
yima-m "people" vs yima-nëm "we people". I suspect, looking at the
singular gender distinctions in the 3rd person, that as in my conlang
this system evolved primarily to classify 3rd person referents for
gender and number to help distinguish what the verb was agreeing with
(since the language also has verbal agreement)... the markers used were
3rd person pronouns, and this usage naturally extended to the use of the
other pronouns as a consequence. This is only a guess though...
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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 03:57:37 -0500
From: Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Person Marking On Nouns
On Mon, 26 Dec 2005 03:43:12 -0500, Chris Bates
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A while ago on the ZBB and on the conlang list we had a discussion about
> person marking on nouns, since I'd incorporated it into my conlang at
> the time (which I'm doing a bit of work on at the moment). At the time I
> had difficulty citing a clear example of a natlang that had such marking.
Elamite clearly had distinct, obligatory person/gender marking on nouns:
1st -k
2nd -t
3rd Anim Sg -r
3rd Anim Pl -p
3rd Inanim -me (where the basic meaning of the root is naturally animate
e.g. king > kingdom)
3rd Inanim -0 (otherwise)
These are distinct from the markers on verbs:
1 sg -h pl -hu
2 sg -t pl -ht
3 sg -S pl -hS
(where |S| is s-caron)
I know I've mentioned this in the past. I'm sorry if I missed your
particular thread. I do try to read everything on this list, but I'm not a
ZBB member.
Paul
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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 11:53:59 +0000
From: R A Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
Paul Bennett wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Dec 2005 12:30:54 -0500, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> So what are the holiday greetings in your favorite
>> conlang?
>
>
> Before I even embark on this for Thagojian, I'd like to find out the
> native forms of the name of Jesus Christ in the relevant languages, to
> whit Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew and Coptic.
>
> Greek, I've got as ÎηÏÎ¿Ï Î§ÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï (Iesos Khristos), more or less,
More, actually. It is ÎηÏοÏ
Ï Î§ÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï (Iesous Khristos)
and I
> think his Aramaic/Hebrew name is something like Yeshua,
Yep - with a long e (and IIRC the u is long also)
Merry Christmas (for the remaining 10.5 days of Christmas :)
and Happy Hannukah and, of course, a Happy New Year
--
Ray
==================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
MAKE POVERTY HISTORY
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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 15:49:43 +0100
From: Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Christmas/Holidays
On Sun, 25 Dec 2005, 18:05 CET, Henrik Theiling wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Happy Holidays to y'all! Or better 'Merry Christmas' if
> you are currently more involved in that as I am. :-) I
> cannot move due to the delicious food I had to eat.
Merry Christmas, or, as the average Ayeri man on the street
would say, "Sirutayternu numino!" (Happy Holynight)*! It's
already the 26th of December, but it's still Christmas :-)
Hehe, yes, all the delicious food ...
BTW, have a look here:
www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?t=14112 look at page 2!
Christmas greetings in 25+ languages!
Cheers,
Carsten
*) Though this would only refer to the Holy Night (which is
celebrated here in Germany instead of the two Christmas
holidays) --- if you really want _Christmas_, that ought to
be 'Vesanyesudan', 'Birth of Jesus'.
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Message: 13
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:22:50 -0500
From: Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Systematic Word Relationships (Was: Arabic and BACK and a whole
lot of other things.)
On 12/23/05, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 12/21/05, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > --- Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > > Method, system, way of doing action:
> > > >
> > > > to fight -> martial art, fighting style
> > > > to program -> programming methodology
> > > I added this as an enumeration since there are
> > more
> > > than one system or method.
> > OK. I intended this as a way of deriving a
> > _general_ term for all such fighting styles,
> Ah, yes. I see. I'm thinking this goes in one
> directiong as a single relationship (karate->fight)
> but in the opposite direction it seems like an
> enumaeration to me. One could also say that "[French]"
> is a "style" of "language", so I'm not sure how to
Maybe "language" could be derived from
"to speak" with the same affix or vowel pattern
or what-have-you that derives "martial art"
from "to fight", "programming methodology"
from "to code", etc. You could have a couple
of different verbs "to write" (physical)
& "to write" (literary), & derive words
for "script style" & "literary style" from them.
> > Each of these derivation patterns is of the form
> > ( specifier prefix ) + ( root ) + ( person suffix )
> > + (noun ending)
> > So:
> > land-o : country
> > land-an-o : citizen, inhabitant
> > sam-land-an-o : inhabitant of the same country
> > ali-land-an-o : inhabitant of another country
> Again, these look like compounds of multiple words
> rather than derrivations from a single word. I haven't
> started adressing those yet.
Yes; one could consider them circumfixes
in a sense, but that's probably not the most
linguistically sound way of describing them.
More aptly, they are compounding patterns
-- methods that form many useful compounds
from a certain pair of morphemes plus
a varying third morpheme.
Similarly, one could enumerate various
ways that compounding of two roots
might work:
1. a HEAD which has quality MODIFIER
(e.g. bluebird)
2. a HEAD originating from MODIFIER
3. an equal or roughly equal mixture of
HEAD and MODIFIER materials
4. mostly HEAD with a little MODIFIER mixed in
(e.g. carbon-iron => steel, salt-water => saline)
5. a HEAD made of MODIFIER material
etc...... An engelang might have a large
set of intra-word conjunctions that
disambiguate the way a compound word's
modifier-morpheme modifies its head
(and, using Tom Chappell's idea, maybe
two allomorphs each for those conjunctions,
one high-precedence and one
low-precedence, for use in compounds
of three or more morphemes).
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry
...Mind the gmail Reply-to: field
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Message: 14
Date: Mon, 26 Dec 2005 12:47:53 -0500
From: Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Bell
Roger Mills wrote:
> Charlie wrote:
>
> > My source for senjecan vocabulary does not have a word for "bell," as
> > in "ding=dong." Does anyone have a compound word for "bell" in his
> > conlang? For that matter, how do your conlangs say, "ding-dong"?
> >
> Kash is based on onomatopoeia--
Similarly in gjâ-zym-byn;
niqnx ( /nIN/ ) "ringing"
niqnx-van "to ring" (intr)
niqnx-fwa-zox "to make ring" (tr)
niqnx-cxa "bell" (calque of Esperanto "sonorilo")
niqnx-cxa-cu "system of bells"
It seems we all have consonant +
vowel + /N/.
On 12/22/05, Scotto Hlad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From my perspective, I am curious how others have handled the question of
> onomatopoeia in their conlangs in general.
I have a few other onomatopoeic words
in gzb:
hqaxnq /G&~/ "to yell, roar, bleat"
vxaxw /bv)aU/ "dog"
raxm /[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ "cat"
zum /zum/ "cricket"
I haven't really worked out consistent
principles for onomatopoeia, though.
So far it's two words for sounds
and three words for animals based
on the sounds they make (but most
animals get gzbizations of their Latin
names) -- maybe others I've forgotten
about which aren't marked as onomatopoeic
in the lexicon.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/gzb/gzb.htm
...Mind the gmail Reply-to: field
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