------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
See what's inside the new Yahoo! Groups email.
http://us.click.yahoo.com/2pRQfA/bOaOAA/yQLSAA/GSaulB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Mark J. Reed
1b. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Michael Adams
1c. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Gary Shannon
1d. Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
From: Keith Gaughan
1e. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Aidan Grey
1f. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
From: Michael Adams
1g. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Michael Adams
1h. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Mark J. Reed
1i. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
From: Keith Gaughan
1j. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
From: Joseph B.
2a. Re: Takiyyudin phonology
From: Shreyas Sampat
2b. Re: Takiyyudin phonology
From: Eugene Oh
3. Re: Whatever
From: Jeffrey Jones
4a. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
From: Jeffrey Jones
4b. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
From: Henrik Theiling
4c. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
From: Carsten Becker
5. Re: Tenses -- any comments?
From: Jeffrey Jones
6a. Re: Anti-telic?
From: Rodlox R
6b. Re: Anti-telic?
From: Sai Emrys
7. USAGE: Other Note more on topic - Inuit jargon?
From: Michael Adams
8. Archeology on Iceland?
From: Michael Adams
9. Fw: Power of the Word
From: Michael Adams
10. Re: Adapting non-Latin scripts
From: Jim Henry
11. Jovian phonological changes (WAS: Re: Re: Translation challenge: Fia
From: Eugene Oh
12. Re: YAEPT: Enuf is Enuf: Some Peepl Thru with Dificult Spelingz
From: Carsten Becker
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:02 pm (PDT)
On 7/13/06, Ph.D. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Not so weird when you consider "go" as meaning
> "become":
Exactly. And I don't see how else one can interpret the "go" in "go
crazy". I suppose one might regard the whole phrase as an atomic
idiom, but that's clearly not the case; one can "go" all sorts of
things. "She was so mad she went red in the face." "We were talking,
and then his phone rang and he went all weird on me." Having gone
crazy, one can even go back sane....
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:32 pm (PDT)
Well yes and no. October 31 is just a codification of the older
Samhein (Savin) festival, which was Lunar, and did not always
fit well the Solar calender of the Christians..
When missionaries came to Ireland and Britain they was often
told to convert older festivals into a Christian one.. Or a
pagan place a Christian one. Such as I believe Canterbury or
Winchester became Christian sites.. or Brigit an Irish (British
as well?) became a Saint vs a Goddess/power.
Savin was I remember the new moon closest to ... not sure .. But
it was close to what we now called Holloween. All Saints Day (1
Nov) or All Hallows Eve (31 Oct)..
But heh, people today think Thanks Giving is for the pilgrims,
but in reality it was about giving thanks for the US
Constitution, but hard to fix food and theme for that.
Mike
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ph.D." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
> Michael Adams wrote:
> >
> > Trick or Treat, when your dead ancestors come back
> > from the world of the dead, around 15 October, they
> > want something, blood and food or mischief. So to keep
> > them busy, you give them treats or they take your arm
> > or cattle (trick is how they take your cattle, eat them or
> > just steal them). Also could be a methaphor for the Tax
> > Man or just local raider or like?
>
> This is on October 31, the evening of All Saints Day, which
> is November 1. This was once called All Hallows Day, so
> the evening was called All Hallows Even, now corrupted to
> Halloween.
>
> --Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:59 pm (PDT)
--- Michael Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
> But heh, people today think Thanks Giving is for the
> pilgrims,
> but in reality it was about giving thanks for the US
> Constitution, but hard to fix food and theme for
> that.
>
> Mike
Thanksgiving was celebrated more than 150 to 200 years
before the constitution existed.
>From Wikipediea: Following a nineteenth century
tradition, most Americans believe that the first
American Thanksgiving was a feast that took place on
an unremembered date, sometime in the autumn of 1621,
at Plymouth Plantation, Massachusetts.
...Thanksgiving observance until 1623 and that was a
religious observance rather than a feast. [1]
The nineteenth century reinterpretation of the 1621
festival has since become a model for the U.S. version
of Thanksgiving, but it was an established tradition
before the popularization of the Pilgrim mythology.
For example, the modern Canadian Thanksgiving was
brought to Canada by United Empire Loyalists after the
American War for Independence.
The first known thanksgiving feast or festival in
North America was celebrated by Francisco Vásquez de
Coronado and the people he called "Tejas" (members of
the Hasinai group of Caddo-speaking Native Americans)
on 23 May 1541 in Palo Duro Canyon, Texas, to
celebrate his expedition's discovery of food supplies.
In the sense of a feast in gratitude to God celebrated
by Europeans in North America, this has a claim to be
the true first north American Thanksgiving. The next
was apparently celebrated a quarter-century later on
September 8, 1565 in St. Augustine, Florida. When
Pedro Menéndez de Avilés landed, he and his men shared
a feast with the aboriginal peoples. Later, the
aboriginal people called themselves "apple-tangerines"
(which may or may not indicate those fruits were on
the menu at that "Thanksgiving"). Another candidate
for the first true Thanksgiving in territory now part
of the United States is the feast that the party of
Don Juan de Onate celebrated April 30, 1598 near the
site of San Elizario, Texas with the Manso Indians
(Adams and Kendrick).
--gary
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
Posted by: "Keith Gaughan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:58 pm (PDT)
On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 03:02:49PM -1000, Michael Adams wrote:
> Well yes and no. October 31 is just a codification of the older
> Samhein (Savin) festival, which was Lunar, and did not always
Argh! It's 'samh_a_in' or 'samhuinn', or more precisely, O[í|idh]che Shamhna.
Gaelic gets mangled enough elsewhere without it being mangled here. :-)
The <mh> is pronounced [v] if you're a Scot or (supposedly) East Ulster, [B] in
West Ulster and North Connacht, and [w] elsewhere. Samhain/Samhuinn is the day
after that, on the 1st.
K.
--
Keith Gaughan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://talideon.com/
A new supply of round tuits has arrived and are available from Mary.
Anyone who has been putting off work until they got a `round tuit'
now has no excuse for further procrastination.
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Aidan Grey" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:34 pm (PDT)
Keith already addressed the spelling...
--- Michael Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Well yes and no. October 31 is just a codification
> of the older
> Samhein (Savin) festival, which was Lunar, and did
> not always
> fit well the Solar calender of the Christians..
<snip out of place>
> Savin was I remember the new moon closest to ... not
> sure .. But
> it was close to what we now called Holloween. All
> Saints Day (1
> Nov) or All Hallows Eve (31 Oct)..
That oversimplifies the matter more than a bit. The
Gaulish Coligney calendar was lunisolar, and so there
could be a lot variation from year to year on where a
date fell, from as early as September to as late as
December (and possible more - I don't remember how
wide the variation is off the top of my head).
Samhain, which was probably derived from an originally
panCeltic observation, was a particularly Irish
version, and as best as we can tell, the one adopted
by the Catholic church in creating All Hallow's Eve /
Halloween. Since it was an Irish thing, and not a
Gaulish one, saying it was lunar is mixing a bunch of
history in a blender.
Some folklore I've heard places Samhain at the first
frost - which I doubt is truly the case. Most likely,
it was simply halfway between the solstice and equinox
(hence the name cross-quarter).
Sounds like you got some bad neopagan scholarship...
> When missionaries came to Ireland and Britain they
> was often
> told to convert older festivals into a Christian
> one.. Or a
> pagan place a Christian one. Such as I believe
> Canterbury or
> Winchester became Christian sites.. or Brigit an
> Irish (British
> as well?) became a Saint vs a Goddess/power.
My favorite example of this is August 1, in Peru,
which bears astonishing similarities to Lunasa /
Lughnasadh, which could easily be considered the
Celtic Mother's Day (or foster - or step-mother).
Lughnasadh, "Lugh's Commemoration" was help in honor
of his fostermother Tailltiu, and celebrated with
sports events.
In Peru, it's in honor of mothers as well, and various
sports events are held... Amazing! :)
Aidan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:34 am (PDT)
Well, Lunar does not match the Solar, Lunar as in the older
celtic calender..
While Solar is what we have, but such as in the Islamic world,
they often use a Lunar calender and as such, the dates do not
always match up.
Such as why the old debate on the date of Easter, some was due
to errors that came up over time, such as we did not know that
the solar year was 365.25 or close to that, but in the older
days we only knew it was 365, which meant that every 4 years the
solar year was 1 day less than it was in reality. So given
enough time, the solar year would be off by months if not
years.. So that Holy Days that are supposed to be in December or
the Winter Solstice, would say is was July..
Wintger Solstice the shortest day of the year aka 21 Dec by the
Solar Calender, but ..
Basically Samhein was defined not by a day, but by the cycle of
the moon and it likely changed over time.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Gaughan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2006 at 03:02:49PM -1000, Michael Adams wrote:
>
> > Well yes and no. October 31 is just a codification of the
older
> > Samhein (Savin) festival, which was Lunar, and did not
always
>
> Argh! It's 'samh_a_in' or 'samhuinn', or more precisely,
O[Ã|idh]che Shamhna.
> Gaelic gets mangled enough elsewhere without it being mangled
here. :-)
> The <mh> is pronounced [v] if you're a Scot or (supposedly)
East Ulster, [B] in
> West Ulster and North Connacht, and [w] elsewhere.
Samhain/Samhuinn is the day
> after that, on the 1st.
>
> K.
>
> --
> Keith Gaughan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://talideon.com/
> A new supply of round tuits has arrived and are available from
Mary.
> Anyone who has been putting off work until they got a `round
tuit'
> now has no excuse for further procrastination.
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:37 am (PDT)
Well, look at German, and see where Go comes from or could be.
Ge = verb notice or something like that.
Ich habe Gesprocken = I have spoken.
Ich Ge = I go?
Mike
Address changing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L2/ My Poetry List
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l/ My Humor List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abrigon-l2 My Friends List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargruntsooc Grunts Past/Present/Future
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abrigon-world Magic or Super High Tech
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/future-history-l Where we are going as a species
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:33 am (PDT)
On 7/13/06, Aidan Grey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Gaulish Coligney calendar was lunisolar, and so there
> could be a lot variation from year to year on where a
> date fell, from as early as September to as late as
> December (and possible more - I don't remember how
> wide the variation is off the top of my head).
That's an awfully wide variation for a lunisolar calendar. I don't
know the details of the Coligney, but it's reportedly on par,
accuracywise, with the older (pre-5th century) Hebrew calendar.
That's not as good as the modern Hebrew calendar, but even with leap
months I wouldn't expect a September-to-December range for a given
lunisolar dat. There shouldn't be more than a two-month variance.
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1i. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
Posted by: "Keith Gaughan" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:54 am (PDT)
On Fri, Jul 14, 2006 at 01:17:48AM -1000, Michael Adams wrote:
> Basically Samhein was defined not by a day, but by the cycle of
> the moon and it likely changed over time.
Again Mike, It's spelt _Samhain_. It has an 'a', not an 'e'.
--
Keith Gaughan - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://talideon.com/
The Creation of the Universe was made possible by a grant from Texas
Instruments.
-- Credits from the PBS program ``The Creation of the Universe''
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
1j. Re: Samhain (was Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago")
Posted by: "Joseph B." [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:16 am (PDT)
>> Well yes and no. October 31 is just a codification of the older
>> Samhein (Savin) festival, which was Lunar, and did not always
Or ['s&:m.heIn] as I heard in the Pagan community in the Deep South of the
USA in the 80s & 90s
Or ['saU.wIn] as I hear in the Pagan community in the Pacific Northwest
today.
>Argh! It's 'samh_a_in' or 'samhuinn', or more precisely,
>O[í|idh]che Shamhna. Gaelic gets mangled enough elsewhere
>without it being mangled here. :-) The <mh> is pronounced [v]
>if you're a Scot or (supposedly) East Ulster, [B] in West
>Ulster and North Connacht, and [w] elsewhere. Samhain/Samhuinn
>is the day after that, on the 1st.
Yes, but sadly, Paganism's having become trendy in the 80s and commercial
(thanks, Llewellyn Press) in the 90s did away with any possibility of
keeping pronunciations even remotely accurate.
Messages in this topic (30)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Takiyyudin phonology
Posted by: "Shreyas Sampat" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:32 pm (PDT)
David J. Peterson wrote:
> Perhaps commonly, but not generally. Here's a link to a paper
> by Larry Hyman which shows some examples of what I was talking
> about in my first reply:
This is a fascinating paper, thanks!
It's interesting to see how Kalong treats its /I U/; maybe I'll mess
around with my vowel specifications so that Takiyyudin does something
similar. I'm having fun right now building a word generator.
Unfortunately I'm not clever enough to make it cough up matching forms
in both colours. (This might matter if I'm going to start making a more
opaque alternation...)
Here's a trial sentence...
Temulun te'mo'rshe'tso'l.
T. temur-shE(G)-tsul <-- shE carries obligatory greenness.
T. relentless-BE-contradictive mood
"No, Temulun is relentless."
Btw, Tristan - <u> isn't transparent! Blue [u] alternates with green
[O]; green [u] alternates with blue [U].
--
Shreyas
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Takiyyudin phonology
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 7:24 am (PDT)
How interesting-- I hadn't thought that there actually existed a
language with vowel height harmony! Although I suppose given the
number of people on the planet anything I can think of would've likely
been thought of long ago.
My two cents' worth (from Classical Arithide) of vowel height and
roundedness harmony, using the concept of underspecified vowels:
In order of full-quality, high-variant, round-variant and
reduced-variant, they are--
/A/: [a, e, o, @]
/E/: [e, i, 2, @]
/I/: [i, i, y, M]
/O/: [o, u, o, @]
/U/: [u, u, u, M]
In addition certain consonants exerted a raising influence or rounding
influence on either side of them, though more progressively than
regressively, such that an unstressed /EhE/ sequence is more likely to
be pronounced [ihi] than [EMAIL PROTECTED]@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (depending on its
position in the
word).
Eugene
On 7/14/06, Shreyas Sampat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David J. Peterson wrote:
>
> > Perhaps commonly, but not generally. Here's a link to a paper
> > by Larry Hyman which shows some examples of what I was talking
> > about in my first reply:
>
> This is a fascinating paper, thanks!
>
> It's interesting to see how Kalong treats its /I U/; maybe I'll mess
> around with my vowel specifications so that Takiyyudin does something
> similar. I'm having fun right now building a word generator.
> Unfortunately I'm not clever enough to make it cough up matching forms
> in both colours. (This might matter if I'm going to start making a more
> opaque alternation...)
>
> Here's a trial sentence...
>
> Temulun te'mo'rshe'tso'l.
> T. temur-shE(G)-tsul <-- shE carries obligatory greenness.
> T. relentless-BE-contradictive mood
> "No, Temulun is relentless."
>
> Btw, Tristan - <u> isn't transparent! Blue [u] alternates with green
> [O]; green [u] alternates with blue [U].
>
> --
> Shreyas
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3. Re: Whatever
Posted by: "Jeffrey Jones" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 4:50 pm (PDT)
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 13:42:11 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hallo!
>
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 20:25:00 -0400, Jeffrey Jones wrote:
>
>> Almost nobody is actually reading this kind of thing these days, so I can
>> put any link I want to here.
>>
>> http://qiihoskeh.livejournal.com/69535.html
>
>I at least have read it and found it quite nice and interesting.
>
>... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
>=========================================================================
Thanks for the reply.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4a. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
Posted by: "Jeffrey Jones" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:17 pm (PDT)
On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:18:27 +0200, Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>Hi!
>
>During the week-end, I thought about that musical mode = linguistical
>mood conlang. It's not much yet, but the main idea of using Lydian,
>Mixolydian, Dorian and Phrygian is documented here. It is a tonal
>language that is spoken, not a word-less lang:
>
> http://www.kunstsprachen.de/s21/
>
>(Will sing the sentences later. Perhaps... :-))
>
>Note that the language uses a dotless i for what is usually a normal
>i. The point is that it uses so many diacritics that a normal i would
>not look nice.
>
> **Henrik
>=========================================================================
I see some boxes in the examples in the SVC section. I'm not sure what you
can do about it.
Using "mode" for "mood" is clever. It applies to the whole clause?
The constituents section could use some examples.
Note that in my VOS sketch I also use verbs for adverbs (I'm not sure where
that's documented though).
Jeff
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
4b. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:48 am (PDT)
Hi!
Jeffrey Jones writes:
> Henrik Theiling wrote:
> >Mixolydian, Dorian and Phrygian is documented here. It is a tonal
> >language that is spoken, not a word-less lang:
> >
> > http://www.kunstsprachen.de/s21/
> >
> >(Will sing the sentences later. Perhaps... :-))
>...
> >=========================================================================
>
> I see some boxes in the examples in the SVC section. I'm not sure what you
> can do about it.
I suppose I use too many strange diacritics on the vowels. For that
page, you probably need quite good Latin Unicode support. Can you see
the tone marks in the first table that lists them? Maybe a dotless i
+ strange diacritic is a bad idea, but the dot on an ordinary i
interferes and I strongly wanted to use the graphemes _a_, _i_, _u_.
> Using "mode" for "mood" is clever. It applies to the whole clause?
Reading the musical conlang thread here let the idea come up. :-)
The mood marking applies to the whole clause, yes. You need at least
the verb and the subject to know the mode the clause is in.
> The constituents section could use some examples.
Ok, I will add some. (There are too few examples in general...)
> Note that in my VOS sketch I also use verbs for adverbs (I'm not
> sure where that's documented though).
Ah. I stole the basic idea from Chinese and combined it with my
beloved one-open-lexical-class conlang structure that most of my
engelangs use.
If you find the documentation of your adverbs, please share.
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
4c. Re: New Musical/Tonal Language: Nibuzigu
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:54 am (PDT)
From: "Jeffrey Jones" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 1:46 AM
> Using "mode" for "mood" is clever. It applies to the whole
> clause?
It may be witty in English, but in German, it's both just
"Modus", that's why I also sometimes write 'mode' when what
I mean is 'mood' -- but this goes only for linguistic
terminology.
C.
--
"Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
Venena, Tyemuyang 3, 2315 ya 07:25:21 pd
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5. Re: Tenses -- any comments?
Posted by: "Jeffrey Jones" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:06 pm (PDT)
On Thu, 13 Jul 2006 21:20:39 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Hallo!
>
>On Sat, 8 Jul 2006 15:43:23 -0400, Jeffrey Jones wrote:
>
>> I have a simple tense system here:
>>
>> http://qiihoskeh.livejournal.com/68802.html
>>
>> I'm posting here because I feel it needs corrections.
>
> I think it makes perfect sense the way it is. Perhaps a bit more logical
> and regular than what one would expect in a natlang, but well, there
> *are* a few highly regular natlangs around.
>
>... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
>=========================================================================
I modified that page after the original posting; possibly you didn't see
the original (which BTW was more regular, but less logical in my view). I
_do_ have some irregular verbs: the locational "demonstratives" saa, saha,
sane, and sabi along with the corresponding motion verbs, and the
existenial soo. Perhaps I should put these on the same page as the regular
conjugations?
Jeff
Messages in this topic (3)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6a. Re: Anti-telic?
Posted by: "Rodlox R" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:32 pm (PDT)
If I may ask, would it be a form of "telic" or "gnomic" apply to events such
as monsoons {which repeat on an annual basis} ?
And would it be the same whether a monsoon was presently taking place, vs if
the monsoon ended a month ago?
Just wondering, and thought to enter conversations once more.
have nice days.
>>1. Gnomic AFAIU would require it to be universally true, i.e. have no
>>finite start point before which it may not have been true (e.g 2+2=4)
>
>True.
>
>>2. Gnomic seems exclusively a state-of-the-world or
>>truths-about-the-world sort of thing, whereas antitelic would be a
>>type of (forever-continuing) action, of which existence or state is a
>>subset
>
>Yes, gnomic is to do with _states_ whereas, I am discovering, telic &
>atelic are to do with processes.
>
>>3. Antitelic
>
>I do not understand what point 3 is.
>
>>4. They're different grammatical categories
>
>Semantic as well, surely. Any explicit grammaticalization of these
>categories seem to be be related to syntax.
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
6b. Re: Anti-telic?
Posted by: "Sai Emrys" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:27 am (PDT)
Monsoons seem clearly telic; the have to end (for climate reasons) at
some point. Worst you could have is a couple months of 'em.
Repetition isn't the issue, it's when the event ends.
If you were creating some other verb meaning to-have-a-monsoon-anually.... :-P
- Sai
On 7/13/06, Rodlox R <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I may ask, would it be a form of "telic" or "gnomic" apply to events such
> as monsoons {which repeat on an annual basis} ?
>
> And would it be the same whether a monsoon was presently taking place, vs if
> the monsoon ended a month ago?
>
> Just wondering, and thought to enter conversations once more.
>
> have nice days.
>
>
> >>1. Gnomic AFAIU would require it to be universally true, i.e. have no
> >>finite start point before which it may not have been true (e.g 2+2=4)
> >
> >True.
> >
> >>2. Gnomic seems exclusively a state-of-the-world or
> >>truths-about-the-world sort of thing, whereas antitelic would be a
> >>type of (forever-continuing) action, of which existence or state is a
> >>subset
> >
> >Yes, gnomic is to do with _states_ whereas, I am discovering, telic &
> >atelic are to do with processes.
> >
> >>3. Antitelic
> >
> >I do not understand what point 3 is.
> >
> >>4. They're different grammatical categories
> >
> >Semantic as well, surely. Any explicit grammaticalization of these
> >categories seem to be be related to syntax.
>
Messages in this topic (18)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
7. USAGE: Other Note more on topic - Inuit jargon?
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:33 am (PDT)
Just that the Inuit of Siberia, moved all the way across the northern part of
North America, then to Greenland but stopped at Greenland when Iceland was not
that far away..
We do know of Irish monastics who say Iceland as home until forced out, Irish
myth has :"Tir Na Og" (sort of Heaven, land of ever young) to the west.
Anyone ever worked on a Jargon or Creole before? For this idea, Inuit and Irish
or Inuit and Norse?
Sort of a what if, the Inuit did make it to Iceland and maybe even beyond, like
to Scotland/Orkneys. I can see it, after visiting both the Orkneys and Teller
Alaska, they look ALOT alike..
Picts, pre-Celtic, Celtic, or maybe even something else? Inuit or ..
Mike
Alaska
Address changing to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Poetry-L2/ My Poetry List
http://groups.google.com/group/adulthumor-l/ My Humor List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abrigon-l2 My Friends List
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stargruntsooc Grunts Past/Present/Future
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/abrigon-world Magic or Super High Tech
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/future-history-l Where we are going as a species
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
8. Archeology on Iceland?
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:36 am (PDT)
Anyone know of any Archeological digs on Iceland?
And if so, what did the find there?
Just working on a hyposesis that Iceland was visited by not only the Vikings
but also Celtic (Irish), but also Inuit Eskimos and maybe others as well..
Basque or .
Mike
(going thru rejected posts that was rejected cause of over 5)
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
9. Fw: Power of the Word
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 2:36 am (PDT)
Watching "Luther" on how the use of words can lead to many things.
Mike Adams
Alaska
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
10. Re: Adapting non-Latin scripts
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:56 am (PDT)
On 5/25/06, Gary Shannon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> IMHO: Phonetic alphabets are excellent tools for
> writing down dialects and accents but are entirely the
> wrong tool for writing down a language. They are far
> more precise than they need to be for common usage,
....
> Leave IPA to the people who study language. The people
> who simply use it have no use for IPA and, in fact,
> are far better off without phonetic spelling.
Because of dialect variation, e.g.? For a group of
mutually comprehensible dialects or languages,
it is advantageous to have one common written
language - thus a writing system that
is approximately phonemic, but glosses over
the differences between dialects, and thus
is not perfectly phonemic for any one dialect.
I reckon the same principle could be applied
to a syllabary; and the Chinese writing system
glosses over dialect (or language) differences at
an even higher level.
Of course this commonalty goes beyond just
the sound-symbol correspondences in the
writing system -- part of it is how we learn
in school to avoid the grammatical and lexical
peculiarities of our native dialect when doing
formal writing, and probably learn to use some
words or grammatical structures that aren't
part of our native dialect, in writing.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
11. Jovian phonological changes (WAS: Re: Re: Translation challenge: Fia
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 5:27 am (PDT)
On 7/11/06, Christian Thalmann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jovian:
>
> Oud dsix a lionga. [od dziS @ liNg] "That there be a language!"
> Oud dsix lionga. [od dziS liNg] "That there be language!"
> Oud fi facte a lionga. [o pfi vaXt @ liNg] "That a language be made!"
>
Christian,
I'm curious about the phonological changes and the orthographic
fossilisation that occurred to give the above correspondence! Care to
share?
Eugene
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
12. Re: YAEPT: Enuf is Enuf: Some Peepl Thru with Dificult Spelingz
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:31 am (PDT)
From: "Tristan Alexander McLeay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2006 4:18 PM
> You forgot ɨ (i\), ɯ (M), ø (2), oe (9) and æ (&)! Also, i
> is not
> kosher IPA: lax i is ɪ; ɷ is an old-fashioned variant of
> Ê and so
> isn't distinct from it in IPA; and Ê is just a mistake for
> É.
My bad. But I would nevertheless use rather i than ɪ for
aesthetic reasons. In IPA of course, I *would* use ɪ!
> Personally, I vote we go for the ramshorns ɤ (7). My
> favorite IPA
> character. Don't care what vowel we use it for [no /7/ in
> English :(],
> but surely *something* deserves to be spelt with it!
Yeah, I also wanted to use them, but then I didn't find any
place where this would fit. Also, there isn't a capital
version of it as far as I know.
>> p - p i - i
>> b - b i: - i
>> t - t I - i
>> d - d E - e
>> k - k æ - ë
>> tS - c A - a
>> dZ - j A: - á
>> f - f Q - o
>> v - v Q: - ó
>
> For dialects with that contrast, it is by more than just
> length e.g.
> GAmE /A/ vs /O/, RP /Q/ vs /O:/, AusE /O/ vs /o:/.
I am not a native speaker, mind you!
>> T - th (þ? t?) U - u
>> D - dh (ð? d?) u - ú
>> s - s u: - ú (some have [u\:] here)
>> z - z V - a
>
> No dialect tmk distinguishes all three of /A A: V/; in
> fact, I have no
> idea what contrast you're trying to draw. On the other
> hand, you
> rather sensibly spell /A/ and /V/ the same, so I assume
> this is just
> typo-based confusion?
Yeah, most probably. AFM ideolect, I think I even merge /A/
and /V/.
Vowels are always a peculiar topic, anyway. I took the list
of sounds from my German-English dictionary, assuming that
they've got the sounds right regarding phonemicity.
> No. It would be an abuse of Unicode; things like automatic
> recapitisation and sorting would fail. We could just
> finally do away
> with caps...
Of course it would be. Ah well ... As for the caps, they are
a nice feature of our script I think. Heh, in an uncial
font, there are only capital letters ;-) Oh, and then,
there's also alphabet 26 or how it's called. Search Omniglot
for that. It looks like the font they used for McD's
"Deluxe" campaign.
Carsten
--
"Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
Venena, Tyemuyang 3, 2315 ya 06:03:33 pd
Messages in this topic (27)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
