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There are 19 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Re: Leaving early
From: Michael Adams
2a. OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
2b. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Chris Peters
2c. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Damien Perrotin
2d. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Tristan Alexander McLeay
2e. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
3. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Christian Thalmann
4. Re: Adapting non-Latin scripts
From: Paul Bennett
5. Re: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
From: Sally Caves
6. On feeding fires: "I want crazy two years ago"
From: Sally Caves
7a. Re: New Website Feature
From: Sally Caves
7b. Re: New Website Feature
From: taliesin the storyteller
7c. Re: New Website Feature
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
7d. Re: New Website Feature
From: David J. Peterson
7e. Re: New Website Feature
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7f. Re: New Website Feature
From: Sai Emrys
8. free word-order conlangs (was: Re: OT: THEORY Fusion Grammar
From: And Rosta
9. Re: THEORY: "Finite Verbs" vs "Non-Finite Verbs" in Languages with
From: taliesin the storyteller
10. META: A CONLANG FAQ?
From: Sai Emrys
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1. Re: Leaving early
Posted by: "Michael Adams" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:57 am (PDT)
Not flaming as far as I know.
I found out a long time ago, that if someone calls your a mean
or nasty name or uses a word when talking to you in a nasty way,
that is designed to get you angry. Who is empowering things,
they for calling you the word, or you the one being called it
and getting angry?
Oddly it is you who is empowering it, so if someone calls you
something, laugh at them and grin.. And in this, you do not let
them gain power, but making you do what they want you to do.
Example, someone calls me a Mick, yes, I am 1/4 Irish, so I
might find it offensive, but I know they are using it, or likely
using the word to get me angry and to react badly, but instead,
I say, yes I am.
Okay, for an example of an Oxymoronic, or so the often comment
about the Irish place in things.
I am a Sober Irishman. Why, well, for one a recovering
alcoholic, but it took a while, why? Well, several dead friends
helped.. But just got tired of drinking.. Sorry AA makes me
depressed and want to drink..
I do have problems with the drink called an "Irish Car Bomb" but
maybe cause I find the use of cars and bombs to be
brutal/cowardly/etc, as well as the perception that the Irish
are terrorists or even connected to them offensive or that a
drink is called by that name.
But missed getting blown up in 1981, why? I passed by the El Al
(Airline of Israel) office five hours before it got BLOWN UP by
a Car Bomb.. But after some 20 years military service, I find
war to be a pain and wish people would stop waging them. But
they do..
People forget to think about all that Ireland gave to Europe,
from the Missionary activities of St. Patrick, Columba and
Augustinian as well as others, and the monasteries they and
their followers formed in placed like Cluny (France). and the
hard work on trying to get Europe back to reading and writing
again, and to relearn the laws of Rome and to push back the
darkness.
The Clunic reformation came about, why, cause of problems with
priests not knowing how to read/write/speak Latin (the bible was
in Latin at this time). Also having no real knowledge or even
understanding of their jobs as priests, and too many were
marrying and having kids and the priest hood was becoming
hereditary, with no real calling to be a priest other than the
land and power.
Holocaust happened, and it was brutal and sadly the Germans was
not the only supporters, the US Amerikan Bund Movement was proof
of that. Those in the 1930/40s who allowed it to happen are just
as guilty.. So? Hope it never happens again.. But sadly it will
happen again. Peoples memories are short and often very biased
and worse..
Wow, some of you got to get out of the class rooms and get a
life.. See the world some and I hope do better than to many in
US today, who can not find Iraq on the map.
Weird, this discussion, cause on another list, they was
commenting on how left wing many college professors are. Cause
many seem to have never served in the military, and they often
use their positions as a platform for their political views and
not as a forum for teaching, or so it seems to those on the
other list.. That their professing their views and not teaching,
they show how ignorant and illogical their views are, cause they
do not even seem to allow for free form debate, but "This is how
it must be" and if you do not believe how they say it, you will
fail?
Most of the college teachers I have had, had more problems with
my programming skills than my grammar, spelling or even subject
matter. Which is funny, cause the last time I checked, my GPA
was like 3.6 or higher.
But not done college in a while, was too busy working, serving
my country, keeping people alive while working as a ambulance
driver and helping raise kids, keep friends alive from killing
themselves and other fun stuff.. Let alone spreading my genes
and learning some Inupiaq (We call them Eskimos, but cause there
is several groups/dialects/sub-languages). But yes, the term
comes from the Cree for "eater of raw flesh" or something like.
But heh, I still love a poetry reading I once went to, and
hearing college students saying how evil the war Iraq is/was and
its all about oil. I can support that, but heh, Congress does
the declaring, and the Infantry does the dying! But as they
drove away in their GAS GUZZLING parent supplied SUVs, and I an
Infantry Soldier drove away in my 33MPG car.. I wondered, who is
doing more for the cause to not go to Iraq and who will likely
gain more for the service there? But heh, I wonder if Karl
Marx when he was pissed at his merchant father for cutting him
off from his majoring in beer drinking and wenching (old use of
the term, still used, but in cruder company), so he wrote the
Communist Manifestor and Das Kapital.
Myself, got out finally but ... Will be here to welcome buddies
back and see how they are doing when they get back from the Iraq
or Afghanistan/etc.. And ask them, was it worth it? On that
note, have a nice day, enjoy the freedom of speech, cause I do
enjoy it..
PS: Some of my best friends are Jewish and Muslim and even some
Christians and Wiccans.. And if you must know the priest, who
married my parents, converted to Catholicism while in the camps
(not sure which one). Auschwitz, Sorbebor, Triblinka, Dackhoi
(sp) damn I forget the others.. There was too many.
Also, for fun, last time I checked my manner of speaking and
usage of words and grammar, on a computerized test, I ranked
above average. I love playing with words and how they are used.
And I have a fun sense of humor..
My poetry, I write for more than just meter and such, but more
for content and how I was feeling when I wrote it, even if
sometimes I was thinking of a play of Shakespeare when I wrote
it and some have said I can even do things in Iambic Pentameter
or do a fun Haiku..
PSS: Any one can be made to look a fool, when taken out of
context.. Or as someone said to me, if you reply to something,
try to keep the same subject header, as well as the last post in
the thread you are replying to, hum.. Grin.. Have a nice day..
Mike Adams
Messages in this topic (29)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:37 am (PDT)
Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
should have expired in 1990.
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot
(Max Weinreich)
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Chris Peters" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:57 am (PDT)
I do agree with you that it would probably be in the public domain now. (Of
course, I'm not a lawyer -- I just play one on TV.) But methinks it's still
a good idea to cite sources out of respect.
:Chris
>From: Benct Philip Jonsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
>Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 15:28:28 +0200
>
>Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
>more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
>claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
>FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
>should have expired in 1990.
>--
>
>
>/BP 8^)>
>--
>Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
>
> a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot
>
> (Max Weinreich)
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Damien Perrotin" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:04 am (PDT)
Skrivet en doa Benct Philip Jonsson:
> Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
> more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
> claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
> FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
> should have expired in 1990.
Depends where you live and where the book was published. Here in France
( and in general in the EU) copyright expires 70 years after the author
death, so you'll have to wait until 2009. Note that if the author is
French and died in active service (and remember last time french
soldiers were killed was 2005) you'll have to wait thirty more years.
Note also that in French law the period of WWII is not taken into
account (so six more years)
The duration of copyright in the United States is also 70 years after
the author's death, but only for works published after 1978. All works
published before 1923 are public domain
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Tristan Alexander McLeay" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:09 am (PDT)
On 17/07/06, Chris Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, quoting Benct:
> >Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
> >more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
> >claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
> >FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
> >should have expired in 1990.
Given the author died in 1939 and most major jurisdictions now have
70-years-after-death copyright terms, I think it's safe to say that
actually the work is *still* under copyright. If Benct lives in one
that retains 50-year copyrights, then he may be lucky (tho as Sweden's
in the EU, I think that means that they have to eventually enact
70-year terms, so the work could be recopyrighted). If it was
published (only/first?) in America, that's a different matter; its
copyright will have expired long ago.
As for the relationship between recent reprints and the original, I'm
pretty sure the typesetting/formatting will still have copyright, so
you can't just scan the pages and post the images. But so long as the
text's the same, the reprint doesn't cause copyright to be extended
AIUI, so you could probably scan the text & OCR it.
> I do agree with you that it would probably be in the public domain now. (Of
> course, I'm not a lawyer -- I just play one on TV.) But methinks it's still
> a good idea to cite sources out of respect.
Citing sources and copyright are completely different matters. Failure
to cite sources results in plagiarism which is not (I think) illegal
in itself, tho it can cause your career to end, or be considered
fraud, or the like, depending on context. You can cite your source and
still be liable for copyright infringement. For instance, if I
included here the entire content of a book I have handy, but noted
that it who it was by, its title etc. and made it clear *I* hadn't
written it, I would still be guilty of copyright infringement. On the
other hand, citing sources is the difference between "Bananas grow on
trees." and "Jonsson (2006) discovered that bananas grow on trees"
(with a references list describing what "Jonsson (2006)" refers to).
Similarly, in the fields in which citing sources is relevant, a text
is never so old it can cease to be cited, unlike most copyrighted
texts (I think "Peter Pan" has a perpetual copyright in the UK). Even
if it is not under copyright and you quote from it, you must reference
where it came from. And largely, being under copyright cannot stop you
from quoting from it: So long as you're only quoting from it, and not
including more than a reasonable portion.
(PS Chris: It's better to post replies underneath/intermixed with the
original message. It means they're more likely to get snipped once
they're no longer relevant, and makes it easier to see exactly what
you're replying to.)
--
Tristan.
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:13 pm (PDT)
Tristan Alexander McLeay skrev:
> On 17/07/06, Chris Peters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote, quoting Benct:
>
>> >Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
>> >more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
>> >claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
>> >FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
>> >should have expired in 1990.
>
>
> Given the author died in 1939 and most major jurisdictions now have
> 70-years-after-death copyright terms, I think it's safe to say that
> actually the work is *still* under copyright. If Benct lives in one
> that retains 50-year copyrights, then he may be lucky (tho as Sweden's
> in the EU, I think that means that they have to eventually enact
> 70-year terms, so the work could be recopyrighted). If it was
> published (only/first?) in America, that's a different matter; its
> copyright will have expired long ago.
Yes, I found that Sweden now has a 70-year limit, but the
book was published in Boston (I know there is at least one
Boston in the U.K., but I think that's irrelevant here...)
The question is which country's law applies: the country
where the work was published, the country where reproduction
is made/stored, or both. As it happens the servers where
my 'reproduction'(1) is going to be stored are located in
the US.
> As for the relationship between recent reprints and the original, I'm
> pretty sure the typesetting/formatting will still have copyright, so
I didn't think of the typesetting/formatting aspect, but it
is not relevant here, since those things will change.
BTW how do things stand when the whole work in question
actually is a compilation of citations from earlier
works, which themselves are actually citations from
ancient sources? It is a scholarly work, but hardly
original research, but a textbook citing various
articles, monographies, text editions, grammars etc.,
most of which was 'common knowledge' at least among
scholars even then, since as in most textbooks care
is taken not to be controversial.
(1) actually very extensive quoting, since it is a scholarly
work, but it's style and mode of presentation are somewhat
outdated, especially for online presentation. Thus I'm also
not going to scan/OCR, except for some portions (paradigms
and lists of affixes).
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot
(Max Weinreich)
Messages in this topic (5)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3. Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Christian Thalmann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:35 am (PDT)
--- In [email protected], Sai Emrys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ... am I crazy, or has this thread gotten waaaaaaaaaaay off the
original topic?
>
> It's sorta fun to watch though, in a "wait, how did that happen?" way.
The actual way it happened is much less fun than that. It's
simply one of Mike's ubiquitous posts of random off-topic
brainstorming. This one is very special insofar as it got some
attention, mainly due to the fact that it feels vaguely offensive
to German-speakers.
-- Christian Thalmann
Messages in this topic (42)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. Re: Adapting non-Latin scripts
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:14 am (PDT)
On Sun, 16 Jul 2006 04:54:28 -0400, Tristan Alexander McLeay
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 16/07/06, Paul Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 20:38:01 -0400, Abrigon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> > [The IPA] was designed to signify sounds but not to be hand written,
>> > with any speed..
>>
>> The 1849 version of the IPA had a cursive form. In the morning, I may
>> well
>> scan and post a copy. It's relatively straightforward, given an
>> understanding of 19th century cursive, which is at least easier on the
>> eye
>> than anything much older.
>
> The Wikipedia article on the history of the IPA says the first version
> was 1887? (is it a predecessor phonetic alphabet?). I would be
> interested in seeing it nevertheless.
I'm sorry. Minor misfire. It wsa the 1949 version, not the 1849. My
scanner isn't healthy right now, though. I'll post it later.
Paul
Messages in this topic (29)
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________________________________________________________________________
5. Re: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:24 am (PDT)
In the USA, anything before 1920 becomes "public domain." I have been up to
my ears in this recently. Anything in copyright presently is "fair use" if
you quote minimally from it, except in the case of short poetry, certain
translations, etc. It's maddening.
Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: "Benct Philip Jonsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 9:28 AM
Subject: OT: Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright?
> Can a book published in 1908 still be under copyright, or
> more precisely, can those who have made a recent reprint
> claim copyright, except for any material they may have added?
> FYI the author died in 1939, so by my calculations copyright
> should have expired in 1990.
> --
>
>
> /BP 8^)>
> --
> Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
>
> a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot
>
> (Max Weinreich)
>
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6. On feeding fires: "I want crazy two years ago"
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:40 am (PDT)
Why do people take it so seriously? I don't get this. Getting your
underpants tied so tightly around your neck over something someone says that
is "incorrect," or inappropriate. Just ignore it. I agree that one of the
remarks by the person in question was childish and offensive, but for crying
out loud. We're told on ZBB that the best strategy is not to feed these
things. That should be a rule here. None of us can educate anyone, or
silence those who won't be silenced, EXCEPT by silence. Don't we all have
better and more creative ways of interacting with each other? Surely we can
limit our remarks to those posts that we have a *positive* interest in,
instead of opening the fire-door for the conflagration on the other side.
Unless that's what interests one. In which case, one deserves getting
burned.
Sally
"Answer a man, and you are playing his game, dancing to his tune." By I
forgot who: a commentary on Jesus.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christian Thalmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: USAGE: "I want crazy two years ago"
> --- In [email protected], Sai Emrys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> ... am I crazy, or has this thread gotten waaaaaaaaaaay off the
> original topic?
>>
>> It's sorta fun to watch though, in a "wait, how did that happen?" way.
>
> The actual way it happened is much less fun than that. It's
> simply one of Mike's ubiquitous posts of random off-topic
> brainstorming. This one is very special insofar as it got some
> attention, mainly due to the fact that it feels vaguely offensive
> to German-speakers.
>
>
> -- Christian Thalmann
>
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
7a. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "Sally Caves" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:44 am (PDT)
Hi, David... actually, not for me. I get a headache looking at stark bold
black on glowing hot white. But that is the subjective response of a
migraineuse. ;) The colored scheme is actually easier on me. What might
make it even easier is for you to diminish the size of your letters a bit,
and put black on cream. The left hand bar is just fine. You (or I) should
get this post tomorrow. ;D
Sally
----- Original Message -----
From: "David J. Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 7:12 AM
Subject: New Website Feature
>I wasn't sure if this should have had a "TECH" label, so if should
> have, I apologize.
>
> The only major complaint I've ever had about the format of my
> website has been the color schemes. It seems that at least one
> person finds every single color scheme to be hard on the eyes.
> To try to address this problem, I've fixed it so that the stylesheet
> on my site can be switched between the ordinary stylesheet, and
> a new black and white scheme that's black text on a white
> background (for pages that work with a light background), or
> white text on a black background (for pages that work with a
> dark background). You can switch it once, and it'll remain the
> same for every page that's clicked on.
>
> Anyway, for those on list who have found any of the color
> schemes kind of irksome, I was wondering if you could poke
> around my site and see if the new black and white scheme
> makes things better:
>
> http://dedalvs.free.fr/
>
> I've tested the script on Safari and Firefox for the Mac, and IE
> and Firefox for Windows, and it seems to work okay. If anyone
> has problems, let me know.
>
> Anyway, I thought this was the best solution, since I can keep
> my kooky color schemes, but offer viewers an option that
> should work out for anyone. Thanks in advance, and feel free
> to reply off-list.
>
> -David
> *******************************************************************
> "sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
> "No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
>
> -Jim Morrison
>
> http://dedalvs.free.fr/
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
7b. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:50 am (PDT)
* David J. Peterson said on 2006-07-16 13:12:37 +0200
> Anyway, for those on list who have found any of the color
> schemes kind of irksome, I was wondering if you could poke
> around my site and see if the new black and white scheme
> makes things better:
>
> http://dedalvs.free.fr/
Seems to work fine. Opera comes with a menu-choice that can force b/w
though so it's quite redundant for Opera-users :) I still use Firefox
though as I'm addicted to some of its extensions.
And now a tip to all and everyone presenting their conlangs on the web:
To select colors that'll work even for colorblind people, test your
pages here: http://colorfilter.wickline.org/
Then learn how to improve them here:
http://jfly.iam.u-tokyo.ac.jp/html/color_blind/
t., who is fully aware that the index-page of taliesin.nvg.org
absolutely sucks for the colorblind...
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
7c. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:22 pm (PDT)
taliesin the storyteller skrev:
> * David J. Peterson said on 2006-07-16 13:12:37 +0200
>
>>Anyway, for those on list who have found any of the color
>>schemes kind of irksome, I was wondering if you could poke
>>around my site and see if the new black and white scheme
>>makes things better:
>>
>>http://dedalvs.free.fr/
>
>
> Seems to work fine. Opera comes with a menu-choice that can force b/w
> though so it's quite redundant for Opera-users :) I still use Firefox
> though as I'm addicted to some of its extensions.
Firefox also has something similar now. In the Swedish
version it's "Visa - Sidstil", so probably "View - Page style"
in English -- and something entirely else in Norwegian?
I'm also addicted to some Firefox extensions in spite of the
fact that at least the version I'm running misaligns inline
images in the pages I'm preparing just now.
> And now a tip to all and everyone presenting their conlangs on the web:
> To select colors that'll work even for colorblind people, test your
> pages here: http://colorfilter.wickline.org/
> Then learn how to improve them here:
> http://jfly.iam.u-tokyo.ac.jp/html/color_blind/
Hm, interesting. It seems that my pages who are in the
earth-colors register fare reasonably well.
> t., who is fully aware that the index-page of taliesin.nvg.org
> absolutely sucks for the colorblind...
Hah! There are a lot of pages out there that suck for
the dyscalculic! Why is it that all introductions to
scripting language X must contain some to me totally
arcane mathematical example when all I want to do is
text mangling? ;-)
Believe me, the worst thing is not knowing you can't
do a calculation, but to swap around the digits in
phone numbers, page/paragraph/chapter numbers, prices
etc. I guess the worst thing when being color blind
is to unwittingly miss distinctions based on colors
that others are making.
BTW could someone knowledgable in Perl explain to
me (offlist) how cookies work in CGI::Lite?
(I don't need/like CGI.pm HTML templating, so I
try to avoid loading that elephant of a module...
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot
(Max Weinreich)
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
7d. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "David J. Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:47 pm (PDT)
Henrik:
<<
First of all, I find your colour schemes funny, but indeed hard to
read. B/W is better for mealthough switching requires Javascript
(after switching it on, it worked for me (Galeon (w/ Mozilla engine),
Linux Debian 3.1)).
>>
This is useful to know. I'm not very web savvy at all, so if I hear
of JavaScript that does something I want to do, I use it. However,
if X can be done with or without JavaScript, I think it's useful to
know that it should be done without, for maximum compatibility.
Henrik:
<<
If you want to improve the B/W stylesheet to even more match my
personal taste, try switching off the all-bold font.
>>
I *believe* all my bold is on the stylesheet... (I could test this by
turning it off on the black and white side.) If so, others could turn
it off by providing their own stylesheet, as Mark suggested. I
but everything in bold on my site because I find the *non-bold*
hard to read. ;p Bold looks great on Safari for the Mac. I have
noticed it doesn't look as great on other browsers, though...
<<
What might make it even easier is for you to diminish the size of
your letters a bit, and put black on cream.
>>
Sally wrote:
Don't know about the black on cream, but I think pretty much
every browser will let you change the size of the letters to
anything you want (as well as the font). I view everything in
14pt Palatino.
Taliesin wrote:
<<
Opera comes with a menu-choice that can force b/w
though so it's quite redundant for Opera-users :)
>>
That's cool!
Taliesin continues:
<<
And now a tip to all and everyone presenting their conlangs on the web:
To select colors that'll work even for colorblind people, test your
pages here: http://colorfilter.wickline.org/
Then learn how to improve them here:
http://jfly.iam.u-tokyo.ac.jp/html/color_blind/
>>
Ah, this is what I was hoping to find! Thanks for the link!
-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
-Jim Morrison
http://dedalvs.free.fr/
Messages in this topic (10)
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7e. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:58 pm (PDT)
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Hash: SHA1
On Sunday 16 July 2006 15:33, David J. Peterson ("David J. Peterson"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> I *believe* all my bold is on the stylesheet... (I could test this by
> turning it off on the black and white side.) If so, others could turn
> it off by providing their own stylesheet, as Mark suggested. I
> but everything in bold on my site because I find the *non-bold*
> hard to read. ;p Bold looks great on Safari for the Mac. I have
> noticed it doesn't look as great on other browsers, though...
a better solution than making everything bold would be to change the settings
in your browser to make non-bold text readable.
- --
"We are the grassroots that bring change. We are the U-bend under the sink of
society. You can try to clean us up, but we collect again. We are those who
think that site mods went the way of Silicon Graphics. You can assert
authority and we will circumvent it. You can impose rules and we will break
them. You can delete us and we will return. We are 4chan, iichan, 420chan,
OnionChan, wtfux, and 0chan. We are /b/, /a/, /m/, /k/, and letters not yet
used. We are nameless gatherers - and we have power beyond a deletion option.
In the open fields of the Internet, we are nowhere and everywhere - there is
no stopping, controlling, coercing, or intruding upon us. We are limitless.
You can join us and it will end the troubles you have faced, or you can stand
against us and never truly win. [...] We will make the truth known and it
will either be ruin or nothing at all. The censorship will end, or we will
end the censorship."
-Anonymous
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Messages in this topic (10)
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7f. Re: New Website Feature
Posted by: "Sai Emrys" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 1:04 pm (PDT)
David: *chuckle* I saw that a week or two ago. I feel speshul. :-)
I actually prefer your color scheme because it's softer. The B&W
scheme is very... harsh for some reason.
Re JavaScript: There's a good Firefox plugin called NoScript; lets you
enable/disable scripting on a per-server basis, including
discriminating amongst scripts *used* (but not hosted) on the same
page, so eg you can enable the page's JS functionality while still
blacklisting the ad server and 3rd-party tracking they use.
That plus AdBlock (IIRC) makes for nicely improved browsing.
- Sai
Messages in this topic (10)
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________________________________________________________________________
8. free word-order conlangs (was: Re: OT: THEORY Fusion Grammar
Posted by: "And Rosta" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:49 am (PDT)
The discussion of Warlpiri prompts me to solicit information about conlangs in
which word-order is in some sense very free but without ambiguity resulting
from the freedom.
1. How free is free? Is freedom limited to within some subsentential domain
such as the clause? Within the domain of freedom are all orders permissible, or
just very many/most?
2. What mechanism allows the freedom (without ambiguity)? Rampant concord? Or
something else?
3. Is the freedom structural or just 'informational'? By 'structural freedom' I
mean that linear precedence is of little importance to syntax. By
'informational freedom', I mean that even if syntax is highly sensitive to
linear precedence, the grammar nevertheless has resources such that for any
combination of a meaning and an order of content words, some syntactic
structure is available to express that combination. (An example of
'informational freedom' would be "The farmer killed the duckling" vs "The
duckling was killed by the farmer", allowing both F-K-D and D-K-F orders, but
with structural changes.)
The Latin & Warlpiri natlang examples of freedom strike me as comparatively
uninteresting, because they can be analysed in terms of flat clause structures
without internal ordering -- nothing that looks like thoroughgoing scrambling.
But conlangs very possibly have more of interest to offer here...
(To start the ball rolling: my Livagian has no structural freedom but lots of
informational freedom, using a mechanism other than rampant concord, and no
limitation to certain subsentential domains.)
--And.
Messages in this topic (17)
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9. Re: THEORY: "Finite Verbs" vs "Non-Finite Verbs" in Languages with
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 11:54 am (PDT)
* Eldin Raigmore said on 2006-07-15 23:24:44 +0200
> (I _think_ this is a "THEORY:" post; maybe it's a "USAGE:" post.)
> (Which tag belongs on questions about linguistic terminology?)
I think it sorts under THEORY. USAGE is for YAE?Ts and the like, IIRC.
> Question 1: In languages in which no verb is ever required to agree with
> anything, are _all_ the verbs "non-finite"? Or, in such languages, does
> the "finite" vs "non-finite" distinction not exist?
In Norwegian, verbs do not agree. Period. Non-finite verb-forms are then
things like the infinitive and the participles, basically *verbforms
that are not marked for tense* or *need an auxiliary to show tense*.
> Question 2: In a language in which most bivalent or higher-valency verbs
> usually must agree with more than one participant (i.e. a language with
> polypersonal agreement); if a form of such a verb occurs which agrees with
> one participant only, is that a "finite" form of that verb, or a "non-
> finite" form of the verb?
I can't remember ever having seen that finite-ness has anything to do
with agreement so I'm at a loss to answer these... Somebody with a good
knowledge of Basque would be the ideal person to ask though.
> So why the heck am I asking?
>
> I am conning a clause-chaining lang.
^^^^^^^
Ooh, widening of meaning or more likely backformation. Yummy. Dangerous
word to use outside of our circle though.
A: "What, are you a con-man?" <grabs for phone to call police>
B: "Yessir, I love conventions! I'm off to a rock-collector's next month..."
A: "Uh..." <looks for dictionary>
/snip interesting overview of clause chaining/
> I want my lang to have a switch-reference system, too.
>
> In a switch-reference system, some verbs are obligatorily marked to show
> whether some referent is the same as, or different from, a similar referent
> of a reference clause.
AFMCL, it does switch-reference, or basically has a prefix to show same
subject as previous clause in a clause chain. If the subject is
different, it needs its own NP. Also, it's the only time the verb agrees
with anything... if we disregard type 4 object-incorporation as
agreement.
> In order to be called "a switch-reference system", the switch-reference
> marking must be _obligatory_; certain clauses _must_ be marked as same
> referent or different referent, _even_ _if_ that question is obviously
> answered by other markings.
>
> /ka-snip details/
>
> In my lang I hope to use non-finite verbs for Consecutive Clauses when the
> switch-reference system makes it clear what the referent is even if the
> verb doesn't agree with the referent. Of course I'll do the same for
> Subordinate Clauses, as well.
>
/more snippage/
>
> If the "different referent"-marked verbs are then going to have to agree
> with the new referents, while the "same referent"-marked verbs don't,
> the "DR" verbs will be longer -- contain more phonological material -- than
> the corresponding "SR" verbs, even though the "Same Referent" marks are
> longer than the "Different Refent" marks.
Was this the end of your mail or was it cut somewhere for being too
long? There was no sig(nature) in the mail I received.
Thanks for the switch-reference overview as well!
t.
Messages in this topic (2)
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10. META: A CONLANG FAQ?
Posted by: "Sai Emrys" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:57 pm (PDT)
Wow, all caps subject line with default caps protocol. Heh.
Basically, I'd like to suggestion that every month or so the list
owner should post a CONLANG FAQ - what the group is about, relevant
policies, group lingo (eg YAEPT, ANADEW, etc), suggestions for
formatting, CXS vs Unicode intro, etc.
Does such a thing already exist? If so, I've not seen it being posted.
- Sai
Messages in this topic (1)
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