There are 5 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Next Bay Area Conlang meetup: Oct 14th
From: Sai Emrys
2a. Re: "and"
From: René Uittenbogaard
2b. Re: "and"
From: Dana Nutter
2c. Re: "and"
From: Doug Dee
3. Dolgopolsky's List
From: Eldin Raigmore
Messages
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1. Next Bay Area Conlang meetup: Oct 14th
Posted by: "Sai Emrys" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun Aug 13, 2006 11:32 pm (PDT)
[BCCed to the meetup email list; email me if you want to be on it and
aren't already]
When: 2nd Saturday every other month (next: Oct 14th '06)
Time: 2pm
Place: A park within walking distance of BART (potluck!) - probably
Berkeley BART, maybe Lake Merritt (TBD)
Bring with you:
* picnic blankets
* food and/or drink
* 5 sentences in a conlang (or toylang), translated into English
- minimally complex, but enough to show off one aspect of the language
- ... and be enough that, with those 5 sentences, others can recreate
the grammar in question (e.g. tense - I ate the dog, I will eat the
dog, I am eating the dog at the very moment, I am eating the dog but
not right this second because right this second I'm talking but
generally speaking I'm in the middle of it, ...)
This time, we had: me, Doug, Gabe, John Q, Kelly, Kode', Kirk, &
Leland. And plenty of good Indian food - yum! - and likewise tasty
conversation. If you weren't there - you missed out, so show up next
time damnit. :-)
- Sai
Messages in this topic (1)
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2a. Re: "and"
Posted by: "René Uittenbogaard" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:47 am (PDT)
On 8/13/06, H. S. Teoh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The postclitic _ei_ [ej] is used for joining nouns, and is suffixed to
> the conjoined noun, sorta like the Latin -que. For example:
>
> samat sa. - a man
> samat sa kiran sa ei. - a man and a youth.
>
> tiki sei. - a rabbit
> tiki sei misai si'ei. - a rabbit and a deer.
> (_si'ei_ = euphonic contraction of _sei_ + _ei_).
[snip]
> The nominal conjunction _ei_
> can also appear in adverbial position, in which case its meaning shifts
> to "also":
>
> huu na hamra ei misai kei aram.
> I also see a deer.
funny - I also use the same word for "also" and as nominal conjunction
in Calénnawn:
_pey_ references the part of speech immediately preceding it.
Rándoše pey sobésse. Rando laughed too (i.e. someone else laughed too).
Rándoše sobésse pey. Rando also laughed (i.e. he did something else too).
Rándoše rufóme en pey. Rando hit me too (i.e. he hit someone else too).
(BTW are the English translations correct? Is there a way to better
disabiguate between the meanings?)
_pey_ is also used as a conjunction "and" between noun phrases:
Égla gowsupé s-cétiwm s-vassi pey. I will go to the market and home.
E Rándo pey gowsupé s-vássi. I and Rando go home.
E pey Rándo pey gowsupé s-vássi. Both me and Rando go home.
E pey gowsupé s-vássi. I, too, go home.
However, for sentences, _sno_ is used:
Égowsupe s-vássi sno sónnti panaléya Anc. I go home and you see Anc.
René
Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: "and"
Posted by: "Dana Nutter" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:30 am (PDT)
li [Larry Sulky] mi tulis la
> Hi, All--
>
> When "and" is used between independent clauses we call it a
> conjunction:
>
> We went to the market and you went to the cinema.
>
> Question 1: What grammatical role is "and" playing when it separates
> items in a list:
>
> We went to the market and the cinema.
>
> Doesn't seem like a conjunction there.
>
> Question 2: And is there still a different grammatical role
> in this example:
>
> We went to the market and away from all this big-city noise.
>
> Or is this just a conjunction with some words omitted?
I've actually been wondering something similar. In English "and"
connected verbs, phrases and lists of nouns among other things without
any distinction. This allows some ambiguity. I've considered using the
preposition "with" to connect nouns in a list rather than the
conjunction "and" which would be used for connecting whole clauses.
One thing that brought up this idea was a usage I found in Russian where
"he and I" is "we with him".
Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: "and"
Posted by: "Doug Dee" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:57 pm (PDT)
In a message dated 8/13/2006 12:05:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>In all your examples "and" is a conjunction, it's just joining different
>kinds of things together. And in English can be used to join together
>clauses, NPs, PPs and various other things, as long as it's joining
>together two things with the same basic function (you can't conjoin a
>clause and a PP for instance). In other languages, there may be
>different words all translated as "and" which are more specific in what
>they can join together.
A conlang example is Klingon, which has _je_ to join NPs and _'ej_ to join
clauses.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3. Dolgopolsky's List
Posted by: "Eldin Raigmore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:57 am (PDT)
>From page 119 of Merritt Ruhlen's "The Origin of Language";
"In Dolgopolsky's attempt to discover the meanings which are most stable
over time in human language, the number 'two' ranked second in stability.
His complte list, in order of stability, was:
I/me
two
you (singular)
who/what
tongue
name
eye
heart
tooth
no/not
fingernail/toenail
louse/nit
tear(drop)
water
dead
hand
night
blood
horn (of an animal)
full
sun
ear
salt
Anyone whose conlang is diachronically related to another language (whether
a natlang or another conlang)?
How do these words in your conlang compare to the corresponding words in
its diachronic relative?
-----
eldin
Messages in this topic (1)
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