There are 13 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Baby/infant
From: Edgard Bikelis
1b. Re: Baby/infant
From: Eric Christopherson
1c. Re: Baby/infant
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
1d. Re: Baby/infant
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz
2a. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
From: Harold Ensle
2b. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2c. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
From: Chris Bates
3a. Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
From: Henrik Theiling
3b. Re: Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
From: Arthaey Angosii
3c. Re: Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
From: Henrik Theiling
4. Relay
From: Peter Bleackley
5a. Re: Weekly vocab revival?
From: Carsten Becker
5b. Re: Weekly vocab revival?
From: Henrik Theiling
Messages
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1a. Re: Baby/infant
Posted by: "Edgard Bikelis" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:00 pm (PDT)
Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues wrote:
> On 8/22/06, Edgard Bikelis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues wrote:
>> > Yes, but "criança" (a person to be created or raised) is any child,
>> > from 0 up to about 11 years old. It is not a term restricted to
>> > babies.
>> >>
>> >
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm not totally sure, but in English 'to create' is just... to make,
>> to forge something new, hm? If so, 'criança' can't be created, because
>> it already was, otherwise it would be just a wish, a plan, or something
>> on a refrigerator, waiting for the seeding season ; ). In Portuguese,
>> and I think in Spanish too, we 'create pigs' (criamos porcos), but we
>> are just growing them ; ).
>
> It depends on what you mean by "create". I know that in English the
> most suitable words for that context are "grow" or "raise". You said
> "we are just growing them", but there is no reason English would be
> right and Portuguese would be wrong, or vice versa. There is no
> absolute frame of reference in Linguistics.
Surely! I didn't mean that one language was right and the other
wrong. Just that one is truer, eh eh eh, kidding ; ). About what I said,
"we are just growing them", I imagined the meaning, and two sheets with
'empty' squares on it. Then, in Portuguese our 'criar' let the meaning
pass, as it would light, precisely where in English there are two
squares, with different meaning and ... word. As one word may have more
than one meaning, but hardly unrelated to the primitive one. Well, and
then, on that phrase, I played with this difference, saying that in
English we are just raising them, but in Portuguese we 'create' them.
Alas, me and mine logorrhea.
[cut]
> Anyway,
> the source of confusion was a flaw of mine: I forgot to put [""]
> around the word "created". I apologise for that.
>
No harm done, no need to apoligise. But accepted, nevertheless...
[cut]
>
> By the way, the word "criatura" (creature) is etymologically related
> to "criança". Maybe because a creature is a being which is generated
> or "created" (raised) by nature. I am a natural creature, and so are
> you! ;)
I hope so! But some things are created by will, others by chance, good
or bad ; ). Let us hope not to be from the last type, o dear.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues
>
It's good to see a[nother] lusophone here!
Edgard scripsit.
Messages in this topic (18)
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1b. Re: Baby/infant
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:45 pm (PDT)
On Aug 23, 2006, at 1:29 AM, Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
> - Tamazight (Semitic) has "taslmiya" or "tislmiwin" for baby; I
> cannot
> determine the etymology of either word, but both appear to have the
> triliteral root "s-l-m-" which in Arabic and Hebrew (Semitic) means
> "peace"
> or "safety".
Small nitpick - Tamazight (AKA Berber) is AFAIK classified as Afro-
Asiatic but not Semitic. Whether Berber is more closely related to
the Semitic languages than to the other AA languages seems to be an
open issue.
Messages in this topic (18)
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1c. Re: Baby/infant
Posted by: "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:45 am (PDT)
Hi Philip, Charlie and all,
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Philip Newton wrote:
[snip]
> On 8/23/06, Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
> > - Andean Spanish (IE, Romance) has "guagua" for "baby"; I
> > don't know its etymology.
>
> Sounds like onomatopoeia to me, though.
It's possible, but a knowledge of the indigenous languages
of the region might indicate a loanword with an etymology
from words with non-onomatopoeic significance. Who knows?
I sure don't.
> > - Greek (IE) has "vréfos" for "infant, baby", "nípio" for
> > "infant, baby, newborn child", and "moró" for "baby".
>
> "Moró" seems to be the neuter singular of "morós" = "foolish, stupid,
> idiotic", so this is probably the "incapable of speech" thing.
Yes.
> > "nípio" *seems* to combine the roots for "new" and "child".
>
> Well, it does share the consonant n- with "néos" and the consonant p-
> with "paidí"...
It actually shares the "né" (nu eta) with "néos", but I
thought a spelling pronunciation would be more helpful.
I *did* emphasise "*seems*", as this was only an
untutored guess at its etymology. The point here is
surely to give Charlie suggestions that might be useful
in forming a word in his conlang, reconstructing similar
meanings by analogy; so for this purpose it's not that
important what the actual derivation of "nípio" ("népio")
is, as that it suggested the idea that "baby" might be
conveyed by combining the two notions "new" & "child".
Regards,
Yahya
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Messages in this topic (18)
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1d. Re: Baby/infant
Posted by: "Yahya Abdal-Aziz" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:47 am (PDT)
Hi Eric,
On Wed, 23 Aug 2006, Eric Christopherson wrote:
>
> On Aug 23, 2006, at 1:29 AM, Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
>
> > - Tamazight (Semitic) has "taslmiya" or "tislmiwin" for baby; I cannot
> > determine the etymology of either word, but both appear to have the
> > triliteral root "s-l-m-" which in Arabic and Hebrew (Semitic) means
> > "peace" or "safety".
>
> Small nitpick - Tamazight (AKA Berber) is AFAIK classified as Afro-
> Asiatic but not Semitic. Whether Berber is more closely related to
> the Semitic languages than to the other AA languages seems to be an
> open issue.
I sit corrected! ;-)
But please, not "Berber", which is as insulting to the people as "barbarian"
is to non-hellenes, or, I understand, as "Eskimo" is to Inuit and their
close relatives.
Regards,
Yahya
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Messages in this topic (18)
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2a. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
Posted by: "Harold Ensle" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:40 pm (PDT)
Well......Ankanian isn't much help as grammatically
it only has one word type.
However, I do know of an excellent conlang created by
John Fisher called "Elet Anta" ( which can be found
at http://www.drummond.demon.co.uk/anta/ ).
He has a unique and well thought out
set of word types.
Harold
Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:53 am (PDT)
Chris Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My current conlang ngwaalq has additional word classes
> not found in English: noun classifiers and verb classifiers.
> These are closed classes (about 50 items in each) which
> have distinct distributional and morphological properties
> to verbs and nouns: namely, noun and verb classifiers
> are the locus of nominal and verbal inflectional morphology
> respectively, and can occur independently (nouns and verbs
> require a classifier, but noun and verb classifiers do not
> require anything explicit to classify).
I'm familiar with noun classifiers, though I can't think of any
natlangs that use them as the base for inflection vs the noun, but I've
never heard of verb classifiers - could you give a couple examples of
each to help us wrap our minds around the idea?
I'm picturing verb classifiers as generalized (or so-called 'light')
verbs that convey notions like 'motion', 'change of state', 'reflexive
action', 'transitive action', 'direct causation', 'accidental action',
'repetitive process/action', etc. Am I in the ballpark, or did you have
something different in mind?
Pfal
Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: Syntactic differences within parts of speech
Posted by: "Chris Bates" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:04 am (PDT)
>I'm picturing verb classifiers as generalized (or so-called 'light')
>verbs that convey notions like 'motion', 'change of state', 'reflexive
>action', 'transitive action', 'direct causation', 'accidental action',
>'repetitive process/action', etc. Am I in the ballpark, or did you have
>something different in mind?
>
>
>
This is indeed the basis of most verb classifier systems (see Australian
langs). The verbs used in this way have been called auxilliaries (and
indeed they may be, depending on your definition), but they do not
usually mark TAM (unlike auxilliaries in more familiar languages), but
rather classify the action in terms of its general type (causation,
telicity, how the abs argument is affected, general type of action
(motion etc)). Here is a list of my verb classifier meanings, only some
of which have forms associated with them (I'm in the process of filling
in the list... this is a recent project):
http://www.chrisdb.me.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=48
A book you may want to take a look at is "Verb Classification in
Australian Languages" by McGregor... much of the book is waffle or
supposition that I found vaguely uninteresting, but several systems that
fall under the label of "Verb Classification" (as defined by McGregor)
are described.
Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:22 am (PDT)
Hi!
I hope it does not go haywire now: I installed a cron-job for the
weekly vocab that should, in case of no problems, post weekly vocab on
Fridays, at about 3:02 AM, GMT. (So delays will indicate that the
corresponding server or something in between is crashed then...)
Let's hope it posts something automatically tomorrow then. :-)
Bye,
Henrik
PS: To enqueue new weekly vocab in that regular posting process,
please send it to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
I will give it higher priority than the old posts in order
to prefer original material.
Messages in this topic (3)
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3b. Re: Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
Posted by: "Arthaey Angosii" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:42 am (PDT)
Emaelivpeith Henrik Theiling 'sa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Let's hope it posts something automatically tomorrow then. :-)
Excellent!
> PS: To enqueue new weekly vocab in that regular posting process,
> please send it to:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Does this email need to be in any particular format? Or is it freeform?
--
AA
http://conlang.arthaey.com
Messages in this topic (3)
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3c. Re: Weekly Vocab: it is triggered!
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:07 pm (PDT)
Hi!
Arthaey Angosii writes:
> Emaelivpeith Henrik Theiling 'sa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Let's hope it posts something automatically tomorrow then. :-)
>
> Excellent!
:-) We'll see tomorrow whether it really works...
> > PS: To enqueue new weekly vocab in that regular posting process,
> > please send it to:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Does this email need to be in any particular format? Or is it freeform?
Freeform, and it should be written as if addressing the list itself,
since I will insert the mail into the data base as is and forward it
to the list unmodified. I'm doing that with the old vocab, too, so
you will see the original posts (ok, in a quoted form).
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (3)
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4. Relay
Posted by: "Peter Bleackley" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:19 am (PDT)
I'm NOMAIL at the moment, but I check the archives from time to time. For
the sake of anybody who's not subscribed to the Relay list yet, but who
might be interested in participating in a translation relay, I thought it
would be worth announcing that there is likely to be a translation relay in
the near future. If you haven't participated in a relay before, but would
like to give it a go, follow these simple instructions.
Go to http://www.valdyas.org/mailman/listinfo/relay and sign up to the
relay mailing list
Introduce yourself on the list - you'll find it's mainly made up of
familiar characters.
Go to http://www.theiling.de/cgi/relay.cgi and sign up. This gives you
access to the scheduling webform, where you can enter your availability to
participate on various dates, and other preferences.
Have fun!
Pete
Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Weekly vocab revival?
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:44 pm (PDT)
Yay, Weekly Vocab again :-) Sorry for being so lazy not to
include proper morphologic breakdowns.
From: "Roger Mills" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 9:58 PM
> 1. committee
kadang < kadao, to gather
> 2. bell-tower (or just _tower_)
enon
> The committee has(have) decided to erect a (bell-)tower.
Maberataiya kadangang tuhisayam menondangaris.
They-decided committee for-errect a-tower.
> 3. exactly
haling
> It will be exactly 73 metres [or suitable equivalent]
> tall.
Irayenoreng araena 203:my haling. (1 menyila 'foot' ~ 0.36
metres)
Height its 203-feet exactly.
> 4. crane/derrick
rimay
> 5. bell(s)
big ~: dang(ye)
small ~: ting(ye)
> They will need a crane to lift the bell(s) into place.
Le seiltaiyanang merimayon ringyam dangyeley yanoea aratena.
They-will-need a-crane for-lifting bells at-place their.
> 6. net (for fishing)
benung
> The fishermen have lost their nets.
Ang masundalaiyan ayinunyein benungyeley iyatena.
Lost-they fishermen nets their.
> 7. napkin
(I assume you do not mean 'diaper' but the cloth for not
making dirty one's clothes while eating)
during
> The [ethnic slur of your choice] people eat with their
> fingers and do not
> use napkins.
Eri kondiyan NOT_YET_DEFINEDyeang mapangyein iyatena nay le
eryoyiyatang duringyeon.
Eat-they NOT_YET_DEFINEDs using-fingers their and
use-not-they napkins.
> 8. rummage around/poke around in with the finger
prikatao mapangyeri
> They just rummage around in the pot with their fingers
Ang prikataiyatang-nama kong biratayea mapangyeri iyatena.
Poke-around-they-just inside-of pot fingers-with their.
> 9. bankrupt
dakay
> 10. toothpaste/toothpowder/dentifrice (or appropriate
> material)
(Viva la Zahnpasta! How could people live so long without
toothpaste and a toothbrush?!)
??? baloysapey, lit. 'tooth leaf' -> maybe the very rough
leaves of some plant could be used to "brush" one's teeth
with ??? I have absolutely no idea.
> The king is bankrupt. He can't even afford to buy
> toothpaste.
Lanyang nudakay. Le ming ruginoyiyang-nyama intyam
baloysapeyley.
King bankrupt. Can not-afford-he-even for-buy
'tooth-leaves'.
13 new words. Thank you.
Yours,
Carsten
--
"Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
Palayena, Ravikan 4, 2315 ya 25:47:37 pd
Messages in this topic (13)
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5b. Re: Weekly vocab revival?
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:16 pm (PDT)
Hi!
Carsten Becker writes:
>...
> > 10. toothpaste/toothpowder/dentifrice (or appropriate
> > material)
> (Viva la Zahnpasta! How could people live so long without
> toothpaste and a toothbrush?!)
>
> ??? baloysapey, lit. 'tooth leaf' -> maybe the very rough
> leaves of some plant could be used to "brush" one's teeth
> with ??? I have absolutely no idea.
>...
Haha, fascinating! :-)
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (13)
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