There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. YANPT (was: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Benct Philip Jonsson
1b. Re: YANPT (was: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Lars Finsen
2a. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Henrik Theiling
2b. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Mark J. Reed
2c. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Paul Bennett
2d. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Paul Bennett
2e. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Paul Bennett
2f. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: H. S. Teoh
2g. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Paul Bennett
2h. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Amanda Babcock Furrow
2i. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Paul Bennett
3a. 1st lesson in Gaajan (wsd: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: Lars Finsen
3b. Re: 1st lesson in Gaajan (wsd: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
From: taliesin the storyteller
4a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Christian Thalmann
4b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
From: Carsten Becker
5. Re: Vertical script
From: Henrik Theiling
6. Re: Vertical script (was: UTF-8 support in *nix terminals)
From: Christian Thalmann
7a. Hello! - introduction
From: Santiago Matías Feldman
7b. Re: Hello! - introduction
From: Eugene Oh
7c. Re: Hello! - introduction
From: Carsten Becker
7d. Re: Hello! - introduction
From: Santiago Matías Feldman
7e. Re: Hello! - introduction
From: Larry Sulky
8. Re: Gmane
From: H. S. Teoh
9. Re: Tonal Sandhi
From: Eldin Raigmore
10. OT: old games (< Weekly Vocab...)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Messages
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1a. YANPT (was: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Benct Philip Jonsson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:58 am (PDT)
taliesin the storyteller skrev:
> * Lars Finsen said on 2006-09-13 16:00:03 +0200
>> I'd like to contribute with words from my conlangs too. Maybe this is
>> last week's, but since new ones aren't posted yet...
>
> Hi and welcome! Another Norwegian, huh? Goody, that way we might be
> enough to fill the list with discussions of minute points of Norwegian
> grammar, finally a possibility for YANPTs and YANGTs :)
I'll take that as an invitation to ask about the extent, nature and
impact of /S/ > /s\/ in Norwegian, since someone asked me about it
the other day (poor Englisher who couldn't hear the difference between
[s`] and [s\] in Swedish accents that have [s`] for /x\/, and stupid
me volunteered the infoid that there actually is such merger in
Norwegian but not AFAIK in native speakers' Swedish.)
Which of the two phonemes merges into which?
Is it always the same direction?
Do all instances of one phoneme merge into the
other or is the result a complementary distribution.
How big is the functional load of the lost distinction.
How old is this merger? (AFAIU it is ongoing)
Is it geographically or socially restricted? If so how?
Is it stigmatized? I would expect it to be...
(And yes, I recommended the guy to use [S] for _sj_ etc. and
[tS] for _tj/kj/k{front vowel}_ when speaking Swedish. Would
have been cruel otherwise! :-)
--
/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
"Maybe" is a strange word. When mum or dad says it
it means "yes", but when my big brothers say it it
means "no"!
(Philip Jonsson jr, age 7)
Messages in this topic (2)
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1b. Re: YANPT (was: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:31 am (PDT)
Den 14. sep. 2006 kl. 08.54 skrev Benct Philip Jonsson:
>
> (And yes, I recommended the guy to use [S] for _sj_ etc. and
> [tS] for _tj/kj/k{front vowel}_ when speaking Swedish. Would
> have been cruel otherwise! :-)
Well, in Norwegian your proposed [tS] is actually an unvoiced version
of the fricative j, of which the closest English phoneme is the y of
yellow. Only some western dialects have an initial t, I think. So I
would prefer another symbol.
The direction is always in the direction of the loss of this phoneme
in favour of your [S]. But I don't believe it will disappear even
from southeast Norwegian (which is the only affected area as far as I
can see), because the ones who can't pronounce it are mostly kids,
and they learn it when they grow up, it's not hard to learn. And
because it sounds childish when they can't pronounce it, there is
some incentive to learn it as well.
Greetings,
LEF
Messages in this topic (2)
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2a. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:49 am (PDT)
Hi!
It seems you're all more confident than I am. Maybe I am indeed too
pessimistic. Thanks for the links, will try the stuff out.
My next pessimistic concern is data as such -- data on computers, and
music, and films. For years, I have been copying old hard disks to
new hard disks which works quite well due to the ever-increasing
sizes. I will have to save my video cassettes from decay, too. And
the CDs and DVDs.
Ha -- I just found my own saved games... :-)))
Ok, ok, I might indeed be too pessimistic...
Keith Gaughan writes:
>...
> Actually, a lot of the stuff works just fine under DOSBox[1]. Getting
> something like a Commodore 64 to run quickly under emulation's a lot harder
> than getting decent emulation of an old 386 box. Although I haven't been able
> to get all my old DOS games working perfectly, usually the problem comes down
> to sound card emulation.
>...
Ah -- I thought this would not work well. Such kind of progress is
good! I will try to play Goblins 3 again, I think.
And Command and Conquer, Red Alert, is supported, too.
This saves my day. Thanks! :-)
>...
> You could always check an abandonware site. Their legality it a bit dubious,
> but if you have the original discs, I see no problem.
>...
I am sure they are somewhere. :-)
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (35)
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2b. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Mark J. Reed" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:27 am (PDT)
There are also services like GameTap (http://www.gametap.com); their
whole business model is based on people being willing to pay money to
play old video games (on emulators that go all the way back to the
Atari 2600, but absolutely include old DOS and Windows 3.x games).
I don't think the old stuff is going anywhere.
--
Mark J. Reed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Messages in this topic (35)
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2c. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:42 am (PDT)
-----Original Message-----
>From: "Iain E. Davis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 13, 2006 11:56 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
>
>> But for DOS, I fear the OS and the computer hardware were
>> already too complex to be emulated well enough for all those
>> picky game engines that failed to run even on native DOS in
>> most cases. I doubt that many DOS or Windows games will
>> survive the DOS/Windows time. To save them, the game engines
>
>If you have access to one, "virtual machine" software may achieve what you
>desire.
>
>I should try it now that I have my own copy of VM-Workstation...I have some
>games I occasionally feel nostalgic for. :)
>
>Hm. I'm nto sure I can "slow" the processor in VM-Workstation. I'll have to
>look. :)
The latest version of VMware is now free (as in beer), with large chunks of
functionality Free (as in speech).
You should consider an upgrade. Coupling a virtualised DOS with a CPU
throttling program should get you what you need to play older games.
Personally, I run a Win XP physical machine, with a Fedora VM for playing with
and a Debian-based secure browsing VM for testing "suspect" sites, that reverts
its "hard drive" to a pristine install every time it reboots.
Wine and Cygwin are becoming niche tools, and dual-booting is *so* 1990s.
Paul
Messages in this topic (35)
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2d. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:50 am (PDT)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Keith Gaughan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 14, 2006 12:09 AM
>You could always check an abandonware site. Their legality it a bit dubious,
>but if you have the original discs, I see no problem.
Copyright is only legally (and IMO morally) relevant as long as the copyright
holder choses to defend it. Most abandonware has usually been explicitly
abandoned by the copyright holder, or business changes have made the copyright
holder cease to exist without the copyright being transferred.
Paul
(why, yes, I am spamming, but it's a subject dear to my heart)
Messages in this topic (35)
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2e. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:03 am (PDT)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Henrik Theiling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 13, 2006 11:15 PM
>But for DOS, I fear the OS and the computer hardware were already too
>complex to be emulated well enough for all those picky game engines
>that failed to run even on native DOS in most cases. I doubt that
>many DOS or Windows games will survive the DOS/Windows time. To save
>them, the game engines themselves will probably have to be ported,
>which is quite some work. For some block busters, yes (e.g. ScummVM
>for Day of the Tentacle etc). But Goblins III for example, can I play
>that? Not the most widespread game and thus not too many enthusiasts.
>It was one of my favorites.
Well, there are a number of promising technologies.
The Intel Itanium, though a different architecture, could provide binary
emulation in hardware of the x86 chip line. I believe there's some hardware
binary emulation of other chips in at least some PowerPC chips (though I don't
think so in the more modern POWER line).
VMware lets you run an entire OS inside a virtual machine. Coupled with
something like binary emulation on the host machine, that provides lots of
options.
With emerging -- and radically different -- CPU technologies, real speeds in
the hundreds of GHz per core range are not only probable, but virtually
guaranteed, within years, and possibly even THz cores (or technology providing
THz equivalent processing rates) are confidently predictable. Even a 100%
software emulation solution stands a chance in that environment, especially
with the trend for multi-CPU and multi-core processing slowly trickling down
from "real" computers to PC-land. Dual-CPU, dual-core is already within the
reach of consumers, and quad-CPU, dual-core is coming Real Soon Now. Once
consumer level technology reaches the stage of industrial machines with (say)
32 eight-core CPUs, with each of those cores idling near 1THz, things should
get very interesting indeed.
All is not yet lost. There are even now programs out there that throttle the
CPU to allow you to play old games dating back to the CGA era.
Paul
Messages in this topic (35)
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2f. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:47 am (PDT)
On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 09:31:28AM -0400, Paul Bennett wrote:
[...]
> Personally, I run a Win XP physical machine, with a Fedora VM for
> playing with and a Debian-based secure browsing VM for testing
> "suspect" sites, that reverts its "hard drive" to a pristine install
> every time it reboots.
[...]
Surely you jest! Having Debian revert to a pristine install every reboot
sounds like extreme overkill to me. I've been using Debian for years
without ever having to do that.
(Although, you may have a point if this thing is running under
Windows... :-P :-P OK, OK, I'm letting my anti-MS tendencies get the
better of me. ÐзвиниÑе.)
T
--
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -- Calvin & Hobbes
Messages in this topic (35)
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2g. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:28 am (PDT)
-----Original Message-----
>From: "H. S. Teoh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 14, 2006 11:36 AM
>
>Surely you jest! Having Debian revert to a pristine install every reboot
>sounds like extreme overkill to me. I've been using Debian for years
>without ever having to do that.
>
>(Although, you may have a point if this thing is running under
>Windows... :-P :-P OK, OK, I'm letting my anti-MS tendencies get the
>better of me. ????????.)
Well, VMware virtual machines are allegedly 100% isolated from the host, so the
MS thing is not a huge concern to me. However, I have the safe-browsing tool
completely wiped back for the same reason as I do a number of things (mere
mention of which may set off the No Cross, No Crown alarm), which is: I'd
rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. It's largely
analogous to the well-known "Be Prepared" motto.
Paul
Messages in this topic (35)
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2h. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Amanda Babcock Furrow" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:31 pm (PDT)
On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 09:31:28AM -0400, Paul Bennett wrote:
> The latest version of VMware is now free (as in beer), with large chunks
> of functionality Free (as in speech).
Huh. VMware's site is very confusing, and very business-oriented - quite
a surprise. Which one do I want, Server or Player? Why don't they have
a "VMware Bare Metal" machine? :)
Thanks,
Amanda
Messages in this topic (35)
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2i. Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Paul Bennett" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:47 pm (PDT)
-----Original Message-----
>From: Amanda Babcock Furrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Sent: Sep 14, 2006 3:02 PM
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Subject: Re: OT: Old Computer Games (Was: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
>
>On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 09:31:28AM -0400, Paul Bennett wrote:
>
>> The latest version of VMware is now free (as in beer), with large chunks
>> of functionality Free (as in speech).
>
>Huh. VMware's site is very confusing, and very business-oriented - quite
>a surprise. Which one do I want, Server or Player? Why don't they have
>a "VMware Bare Metal" machine? :)
Server lets you make your own virtual machines.
Player only lets you use virtual machines made by someone else.
Player used to be the only free version, but ... I'm not clear on the exact
version distinctions for WS, GSX and ESX, but they released the Beta versions
of Server for free, and continued to do so with 1.0 and 1.0.1
VMware Bare Metal is essentially something called VMware ESX, which (as I
understand it) consists of just barely enough Linux to run the VMware server,
the server itself, and not much else, which boots straight into the server.
I don't know what the functional comparison is between ESX, GSX and Server, or
what the future of the ESX and GSX products is.
Paul
Messages in this topic (35)
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3a. 1st lesson in Gaajan (wsd: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "Lars Finsen" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:31 am (PDT)
Den 14. sep. 2006 kl. 03.24 skrev Henrik Theiling:
>>> Could you give some description of your langs? I'd be very
>>> interested.
>>
>> Sure. I have an introductory course in Urianian at http://
>> groups.yahoo.com/group/urianian/.
>> ...
>
> Even if I would allow my browser to log in at Yahoo, it would probably
> not be easy to read .rtf files. But I'll read in your other there.
You are boycotting Yahoo? And why? Maybe I should set up my group
elsewhere? I think I will put it on my home pages eventually. And can
you recommend a file format that's more transportable than rtf? I
thought there weren't any.
I's like to post a first lesson in Gaajan. The clue to mastering
Gaajan is learning the auxiliaries. There are two of them, and they
both may be translated as 'be' or 'do', depending on the context. One
of them, iu, is used for intransitive verbs while the other, a, is
used for transitives. That is: they make the verbs transitive or
intransitive. An auxiliary can have a meaning on its own. For
example, iut alone means "I am" or "I do" or "yes", depending on the
context. But usually they are associated with a verb. In Gaajan, all
clauses require an auxiliary, and most often a verb. The verb is
always immediately in front of the auxiliary, which terminates the
clause. Examples:
ketk iut - I scratch
ij tiu - you eat
ej iu - he, she, it sleeps
ini giu - we say
an jun - you(pl.) walk
wini junji - they run
Note that there are no gender specification in the third person
forms. Note also that a leading i in the auxiliary will mutate to a
fricative j (again like the English y) after vowels or l, m and n.
These 6 forms of the intransitive auxiliaries are easy to learn. Not
so easy are the 36 forms of the transitive auxiliaries. Also, dative
is marked on the auxiliaries, giving in principle 252 more forms. But
there is some system to the madness, which helps a little. Here are
some examples of transitive sentences:
Epe tate - I love you.
Bee aut a - she hits the boy.
Ekoke ik ate - the fire burns me.
Ekewe usenuke ild anjinje - the wolves kill the sheep.
Here, -ke (just -e after consonants) marks the subject of a
transitive action, if it's not implicit in the auxiliary. In the last
sentence above you are free to switch ekewe and usenuke about as you
please, as long as you keep them ahead of the verb. The plural marker
is -we after vowels except a, and -u elsewhere. There is no concept
of the definite, so I'm just putting in the 'the's of the
translations as I please.
LEF
.....home pages www.ortygia.no.....
Messages in this topic (35)
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3b. Re: 1st lesson in Gaajan (wsd: Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1))
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:28 am (PDT)
* Lars Finsen said on 2006-09-14 14:22:47 +0200
> Can you recommend a file format that's more transportable than rtf? I
> thought there weren't any.
Plain text, validating html (preferably xhtml 1), your own xml-format,
pdf (not from images but from text, with newer acroread you can easily
copy the text from the pdf to plaintext), postscript, open formats like
the ones used by OpenOffice. For absolute control of layout, use pdfs.
Rtf is a slightly less processor-dependent version of MsWord .doc after
all.
t.
Messages in this topic (35)
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4a. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Christian Thalmann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:35 am (PDT)
A translation exercise! Wheee! :)
In Jovian:
> 1. doctor / healer
|doctur| ['[EMAIL PROTECTED] n.m. "doctor, physician" < DOCTOR
|meigu| [mejg] n.m. "medic, medical personnel" < MEDICUS
> 2. medicine
|reweidsun| [re'[EMAIL PROTECTED] n.n. "remedy, cure" < REMEDIUM
|meigina| [me'gi:n] n.f. "medicine" < MEDICINA
> 3. ear
|ore| [o:r] n.f. "ear" < AURIS + Gmc. infl.
> 4. eye
|ougul, ougli| ['[EMAIL PROTECTED] 'owgli] n.m. "eye" < OCULUS
> 5. friend
|wigu| [vi:g] n.m. "friend" < AMICUS
> 6. itch and/or scratch
|xaver, xafte| ['Sa:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Saft] v. "scratch" < SCABERE
> 7. hurt / pain (the verb ... or not)
|dolire| [dA'li:r] v. "hurt, afflict pain" < DOLERE
|dollur| ['[EMAIL PROTECTED] n.n. "pain" < DOLOR
|laezer, laese| ['[EMAIL PROTECTED] lajz] v. "injure, wound, hurt"
|noexare| [na'Sa:r] v. "damage, compromise, hurt"
> 8. diagnosis
|diagnose| [dia'gno:z] n.f. "diagnosis" < DIAGNOSIS
--- Note: This is a modern formation; had it gone through the
whole process of "Jovianization", it would have been
|dsangoese| [dzaN'gAjz].
> 9. cure / heal
|curare| [ku'ra:r] v. "care for, worry about; cure, treat"
< CURARE
|sanare| [sa'na:r] v. "heal" < SANARE
> 10. ill
|grodu| [gro:d] adj. "ill, sick, unwell" < AEGROTUS
|moerdu| [mard] adj. "ill, diseased" < MORBIDUS
--- Note: Interestingly enough, the Jovian words |mordu| [mArd]
and |moerdu| [mard] form a minimal pair just as their
English translations "deceased" and "diseased" do...
|undsanu| [un'dza:n] adj. "not healthy" < IN, Gmc. infl. + SANUS
I'm only doing the easy context sentences, since I'm
technically at work now. ;o)
> 1. She is my doctor.
|(Ja) ix mih doctur.|
[(ja) iS mi '[EMAIL PROTECTED]
---- Note: |doctur| is masculine even though it refers to a
woman here. If the noun were treated as feminine, it
would have to be |mi doctur| [mi '[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 2. _That_ is _my_ medicine, and _this_ is yours.
|Id-ic ix mi meigina, ed id-iste ix ja tu.|
[i'diC iS mi ve'gi:n e di'diSt iS j@ du:]
> 3. She looked in their ears.
|(Ja) hae pfictade in sus ores.|
[(ja) he pfiC'ta:d in suz o:rz]
> 5. Our friends are ill.
|Nor wigi son grode.|
[nAr 'vi:gi sAN gro:d]
> 7. Do y'all's heads hurt? / Do you guys have headaches?
|¿Vos doelen ja caefta?|
[vAs 'dAjl@ j@ gEft]
> 9a. She will cure my friends.
|(Ja) i curare mis wigi.|
[(ja) i gu'na:r mis 'vi:gi]
> 10. I am not ill anymore.
|Noene sou grode.|
[nAjn sow gro:d]
Vae,
-- Christian Thalmann
Messages in this topic (35)
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4b. Re: Weekly Vocab #1.1.3 (repost #1)
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:31 am (PDT)
Hi,
From: "Henrik Theiling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 3:24 AM
> It is sad that the old computer games are unavailable and
> will never become available again. That's a lot of
> cultural information that is lost after only ten years.
> It will probably be the same with video cassettes and
> DVDs.
Our history teacher told us in 10th grade "Print your stuff
OUT!" for the very same reason. ;-)
Carsten
--
"Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
Siruena, Talbang 5, 2316 ya 29:16:04 pd
Messages in this topic (35)
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5. Re: Vertical script
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 6:11 am (PDT)
Hi!
Philip Newton writes:
> On 9/5/06, Remi Villatel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > (I estimated your pronunciation of "Carsten" not too far from [EMAIL
> > PROTECTED]
> > since you used to have a german email.)
>
> I'd pronounce it roughly [ka:.stn=]; German /ar/ for me is [a:],
Exactly the same here (an aspirated [k_h] that is, I assume).
> and |st| here is [st] for me, though I couldn't say what rule it is
> that makes it [st] rather than [St]. (I also have [sp] in |Respekt|,
> though I had a German teacher in primary school who had [Sp]
> there...)
Hehe! :-)
I think the rule for Standard High German is that [St] and [Sp] occur
for initial |st| in stems only. Medial and final |st| is [st].
Many dialects have a much broader usage of [St] and [Sp], sometimes
even universal, and it often spreads to the variety of High German in
such areas.
[x] or more likely [X] for /r/ is not too common, especially after
vowels, but it does occur. In Aachen this happens, but it may be
constrained by the vowel quantity, i.e., only after short vowels.
Since I have a very hard time knowing what quantity vowels have in
Standard High German in front of /r/, I don't know whether |Carsten|
has a long or short vowel, but my wife says it's short. :-)
I don't know any dialect that has both medial [St] and [X] for /r/
after vowel. Also, -|en| is almost universally -[n=] or in the worst
case, [EMAIL PROTECTED] in case the dialect drops n.
HTH
**Henrik
Messages in this topic (33)
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6. Re: Vertical script (was: UTF-8 support in *nix terminals)
Posted by: "Christian Thalmann" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:45 am (PDT)
--- In [email protected], Remi Villatel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In action, it looks like this:
> http://home.tele2.fr/mxls/images/bli/story.png
::boggle::
::drool::
I'm envious.
-- Christian Thalmann
Messages in this topic (33)
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7a. Hello! - introduction
Posted by: "Santiago Matías Feldman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:47 am (PDT)
Hello, conlangers.
I'm new to the list. Well, in fact, I was a member of
the list in 2002 through 2003. But then, for a number
of reasons I unsubscribed from it.
I'm from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I'm 29 (about to
turn 30).
>From my conlangs, the one that I have developed most
is Moesteskin. It started as a by-product of a
conworld I devised when I was a teenager. At that
time, I didn't know much about languages other than
Spanish and English, so Moesteskin looked very much
like English and Spanish. As time went by and I
started learning other languages (Russian, German and
Turkish), I began to incorporate some of these
languages' features into my conlang. So, today it
looks a bit less Indo European, but it is still so to
a certain degree.
I started developing some other Moesteskin-related
conlangs, based on my conworld, but I haven't reached
very far yet.
Today, I'm working in two new conlangs set on this
Earth, more precisely in Western Europe. One is
Laturslav, basically a Romance language as regards
vocabulary, but Turkic as regards morphology and
syntax (agglutinating).
The other conlang still doesn't have a name, but the
idea is a non-Indo European language, absolutely
unrelated to the rest of languages of the world, but
with some specialized lexis taken from Latin, Ancient
Greek and English, as most Europeans languages have
it.
Well, I'll be reading your posts.
BTW, I don't have my conlangs on the net. I don't seem
to find the time and the expertise to upload them yet.
But I'm looking forward to doing it soon.
So, it's a pleasure to be in the list.
Best regards,
Santiago Feldman
__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
Messages in this topic (5)
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7b. Re: Hello! - introduction
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:33 am (PDT)
welcome, santiago! (: to our cosy little nest on the web.
eugene
2006/9/14, Santiago Matías Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Hello, conlangers.
>
> I'm new to the list. Well, in fact, I was a member of
> the list in 2002 through 2003. But then, for a number
> of reasons I unsubscribed from it.
>
> I'm from Buenos Aires, Argentina. I'm 29 (about to
> turn 30).
>
> From my conlangs, the one that I have developed most
> is Moesteskin. It started as a by-product of a
> conworld I devised when I was a teenager. At that
> time, I didn't know much about languages other than
> Spanish and English, so Moesteskin looked very much
> like English and Spanish. As time went by and I
> started learning other languages (Russian, German and
> Turkish), I began to incorporate some of these
> languages' features into my conlang. So, today it
> looks a bit less Indo European, but it is still so to
> a certain degree.
>
> I started developing some other Moesteskin-related
> conlangs, based on my conworld, but I haven't reached
> very far yet.
>
> Today, I'm working in two new conlangs set on this
> Earth, more precisely in Western Europe. One is
> Laturslav, basically a Romance language as regards
> vocabulary, but Turkic as regards morphology and
> syntax (agglutinating).
> The other conlang still doesn't have a name, but the
> idea is a non-Indo European language, absolutely
> unrelated to the rest of languages of the world, but
> with some specialized lexis taken from Latin, Ancient
> Greek and English, as most Europeans languages have
> it.
>
> Well, I'll be reading your posts.
> BTW, I don't have my conlangs on the net. I don't seem
> to find the time and the expertise to upload them yet.
> But I'm looking forward to doing it soon.
>
> So, it's a pleasure to be in the list.
>
> Best regards,
> Santiago Feldman
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
> Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
> está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
> ¡Probalo ya!
> http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
>
Messages in this topic (5)
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7c. Re: Hello! - introduction
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:25 am (PDT)
Hello,
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:16:21 -0300, Santiago Matías Feldman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm new to the list. Well, in fact, I was a member of
>the list in 2002 through 2003. But then, for a number
>of reasons I unsubscribed from it.
Welcome to the List!
>As time went by and I
>started learning other languages (Russian, German and
>Turkish), I began to incorporate some of these
>languages' features into my conlang. So, today it
>looks a bit less Indo European, but it is still so to
>a certain degree.
Um ... but German and Russian *are* in fact IE languages. :-P
Regards,
Carsten Becker
--
"Miranayam kepauarà naranoaris." (Kalvin nay Hobbes)
Siruena, Talbang 5, 2316 ya 29:53:12 pd
Messages in this topic (5)
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7d. Re: Hello! - introduction
Posted by: "Santiago Matías Feldman" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:31 pm (PDT)
--- Carsten Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> escribió:
> Welcome to the List!
>
> >As time went by and I
> >started learning other languages (Russian, German
> and
> >Turkish), I began to incorporate some of these
> >languages' features into my conlang. So, today it
> >looks a bit less Indo European, but it is still so
> to
> >a certain degree.
>
> Um ... but German and Russian *are* in fact IE
> languages. :-P
>
Santiago:
Yes, you're right. I mixed things up when I was
writing. I typed Indo European but what I meant was
Western European.
And I said that my new conlangs are meant to be set in
Western Europe but what I meant was Eastern Europe!
This last slip of the pen (of the keyboard?) is
because I always associate East with oceans and West
with land and mountains (which is the pattern from my
point of view on the Southwestern coast of South
America).
Thanks for your welcoming, Carsten and Eugene
Saludos,
Santiago
__________________________________________________
Preguntá. Respondé. Descubrí.
Todo lo que querías saber, y lo que ni imaginabas,
está en Yahoo! Respuestas (Beta).
¡Probalo ya!
http://www.yahoo.com.ar/respuestas
Messages in this topic (5)
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7e. Re: Hello! - introduction
Posted by: "Larry Sulky" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:22 pm (PDT)
On 9/14/06, Santiago Matías Feldman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
---SNIP---
> And I said that my new conlangs are meant to be set in
> Western Europe but what I meant was Eastern Europe!
> This last slip of the pen (of the keyboard?) is
> because I always associate East with oceans and West
> with land and mountains (which is the pattern from my
> point of view on the Southwestern coast of South
> America).
LOL! I did the same thing after moving to the east coast of North
America after having grown up on the west coast. I was always
following and giving directions the wrong way around. It took me years
to adjust! ---larry
Messages in this topic (5)
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8. Re: Gmane
Posted by: "H. S. Teoh" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:08 am (PDT)
On Thu, Sep 14, 2006 at 08:13:48AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
> On 9/10/06, Iain E. Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Are there mail programs out there that _don't_ do threading?
>
> Heck yes.
>
> MS Outlook, for starters.
Eww. I wouldn't touch Outlook with a 20-foot sterilized pole. I don't
even consider it as a viable mailer.
> Pegasus Mail.
Never heard of this one.
> Fastmail.FM (a webmail client). Hotmail. Gmail (though it groups
> messages into "conversations", that's still not the same as proper
> threading). I'd be a bit surprised if Yahoo! webmail did.
I doubt *any* webmail does any (proper) threading. Even on *nix, Pine
didn't (still doesn't?) have threading. Grouping into "conversations" is
a crippled form of threading that isn't what I was referring to.
> >I thought that tended to be a given in a mail client...
>
> Not in my experience.
[...]
Not in mine, either. It seems that threaded mailers nowadays are the
exception rather than the norm, unfortunately. Which is why I'm not
surprised that people find mailing lists difficult to manage.
High-volume mailing list + no (or improper) threading = inbox disaster.
(In fact, the first time I switched to a threading mailer was
immediately after I subscribed to my first high-volume mailing list.
After about 3 days, I had 600 messages in my mailbox, and realized that
there was absolutely NO way I was gonna keep up with my mail unless my
mailer had proper threading. That was when I learned to be good friends
with the Thread-delete command. Deleting individual messages was totally
out of the question. ... And people here think CONLANG was bad. If they
only knew...)
T
--
Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us many useful
objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets. Imagination without skill
gives us modern art. -- Tom Stoppard
Messages in this topic (10)
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9. Re: Tonal Sandhi
Posted by: "Eldin Raigmore" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:29 am (PDT)
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 00:20:59 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There is a LOAD of info on contour tones, but very little info on register
>tones.
>The main paper I know of deals with Vietnamese tonal history and sound
>change, the other deals with Old Chinese -> Middle Chinese sound changes
>and the birth of tones.
>So my question would be, which style of tones are ya looking for? Countour
>or Register...
Thank you for answering my question.
I'm not sure whether a Rising Tone or a Falling Tone should count as a
Contour Tone. I thought Contour Tones meant Rise-Fall or Fall-Rise or Rise-
Fall-Rise or Fall-Rise-Fall.
In any case the conlang I'm talking about contemplates three registers --
High, Low, and Middle -- and two "moving" tones -- Rise from Low to High
and Fall from High to Low -- as the "stand-alone" tones. I am not sure yet
whether or not there will actually be level Low tones or level High tones
in "stand-alone" monosyllables; if not, however, they may nevertheless
arise as a result of tonal sandhi. Perhaps, instead, all three
level "register" tones will occur in stand-alone monosyllables, and the
Rising and Falling tones will arise as, and only as, a result of sandhi.
As a result of tonal sandhi, the other two Rises -- Low to Mid or Mid to
High -- and the other two Falls -- High to Mid and Mid to Low -- may arise.
I am wondering whether such a system is natural at all; what else could
naturally influence the sandhi (whether the syllables are open or closed
and the nature of their consonants, for instance); and whether more
complicated contour tones such as Rise-Fall (say MHL or LHM) and Fall-Rise
(say MLH or HLM) could naturally come up.
Thank you for any information or opinion you can give. (As for the
opinions, of course, the more-informed the better; but few would be less-
informed than mine.)
-----
eldin
Messages in this topic (4)
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10. OT: old games (< Weekly Vocab...)
Posted by: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:29 am (PDT)
li [H. S. Teoh] mi tulis la
> ftp.apple.asimov.net? I just looked, and my childhood
> favorite Apple II
> games are still there.
Yes, they are there. My first computer was an Apple II so I remember a
lot of these. They may not be as fancy as the newer games but they can
still be fun to play with once in a while.
Messages in this topic (35)
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