There are 11 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
From: Padraic Brown
1b. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
From: Jim Henry
1c. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
From: Jim Henry
2a. Re: Merry Yule and Happy New Year all!
From: Jim Henry
3a. Re: Help in constructing new language
From: Logan Kearsley
4a. Verbs as locative verbnouns
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
4b. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
From: Brian Woodward
4c. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
From: Nikolay Ivankov
4d. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
5a. Barsoomian units of length (was: Barsoomian Project)
From: Fredrik Ekman
6a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part IV
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
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1a. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 6:33 am ((PST))
--- On Sat, 12/31/11, Sylvia Sotomayor <[email protected]> wrote:
> [Fascinating stuff snipped]
>
> You would probably enjoy this book:
> The Healing Hand: Man and Wound in the Ancient World
> by Guido Majno, MD (and possibly also PhD)
>
> I haven't gotten very far in it myself, but he discusses
> what
> different ancient civilizations knew about wounds and
> medicine, the
> various treatments (often religious), and what actually
> works. He also
> discusses issues of translation and naming and such. He
> covers
> Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Arabia, China, India, and
> Rome.
Interesting indeed! I'll definitely look into it. In the World's medicine,
wounds are generally the province of the leechmen -- these are the healers
that will apply the Sacred Leeches of Yng, the Feast of the Happy Wigglers
or, for lesser wounds, various plasters and poultices. Leechcraft is
probably the most sensible branch of medicine available to Men in either
East or West.
Padraic
> -S
>
> --
> Sylvia Sotomayor
>
> The sooner I fall behind the more time I have to catch up.
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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1b. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:47 pm ((PST))
On 12/31/11, Brian <[email protected]> wrote:
> Who here has delved into the medical field of sickness with his conlang? If
> you have, how have you classified and categorized the various types of
> abnormalities?
gjâ-zym-byn has a number of words for specific illnesses, as well as
general vocabulary for types of medical treatment and medical
professionals.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (18)
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1c. Re: Illness, Disease, and Disorder
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 2:49 pm ((PST))
On 1/1/12, Jim Henry <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 12/31/11, Brian <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Who here has delved into the medical field of sickness with his conlang?
>> If
>> you have, how have you classified and categorized the various types of
>> abnormalities?
>
> gjâ-zym-byn has a number of words for specific illnesses, as well as
> general vocabulary for types of medical treatment and medical
> professionals.
Sorry, sent that before I was finished with it...
f,k,
fÄm-cô-kyw-cjaj; cystic fibrosis ( < designed to match Fr. 'FK' <
fibrose kystique)
fÄm-cô ÅwÄm-dal
transplant rejection sickness
flâÅ-ca
to do respiratory treatment via some vibratory equipment, e.g. the
Air Vest; xref {flâÅ-fwa-Äa, Ä·Äm-kyw})
hî'rÄ-Ä§Ä plÄ-tôn-za
drug study (also more specific variant with {θÄw-za})
ħÄ'nâw
allergy
ĥâ fÄm-hôw
surgery
ĥâ-ga fÄm-cô-cjaj-Äa
quarantine, isolation against spread of infection
ĥâ-zô fÄm-hôw
to perform surgery
Ä¥Ä'fâÅ
cancer
Ä¥Än'vu
arthropathy, arthritis
ÅwÄm-kyw
lung transplant
plÄ Ä§Ä'nâw-Äa
allergy medicine
ΦÄn'lÄ
lupus
sru-â£yw-ta-fwa-ha
antilibidinal drug
θÄrm
immune response to infection
θÄw sî'dum-Äa
IV antibiotic active against P. argeuinosa
θÄw Årum-tôn-Äa
antifungal IV drug
fÄm-hôw-tla
physician, medical doctor
fÄm-hôw-tla ĥâ-tla
surgeon
fÄm-hôw-tla Φyln-za
urologist
fÄm-hôw-tla-zwa
medical student
Å¡u-fÄm-hôw-tla
nurse
Å¡u-kyw-tla
respiratory therapist
θÄ-Ä·Äm-tla
physical therapist
θÄ-Å¡u-tla
nurse tech
θÄw
liquid drug, medicine (xref {plÄ, plÄ-tôn})
θÄw Ä¥Ä'fâÅ-Äa
chemotherapy drug
θÄw θÄrm-ðwa
immune-system boosting drug
θÄw-sâl
hypertonic saline
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (18)
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2a. Re: Merry Yule and Happy New Year all!
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 9:55 am ((PST))
On 12/30/11, taliesin the storyteller <[email protected]> wrote:
> Conlanging-wise, Taruven has hardly any new words, which is "the same
> procedure as every year". I've been doing a lot of research on
> subordinating clauses though, and have started writing a chapter about
> it. Unfortunately I got side-tracked by WOLD,
gjâ-zym-byn's lexicon has 227 new entries in 2011, the last few of
which aren't on the website yet. Nearly all those were derived
words, only a handful of new roots. I didn't do any major development
of the grammar in 2011, but I did document some aspects of it much
better, putting in writing and on the web certain things that were
only in my head, or implicit in the corpus, until this year -- a lot
of stuff about verb argument structures, for instance.
I just noticed this morning that 2012 is a syllabic palindrome in gzb,
"Äu-gâr-tïm-gâr-Äu": two-ten-hundred-ten-two.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Re: Help in constructing new language
Posted by: "Logan Kearsley" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 1:20 pm ((PST))
On 1 January 2012 01:53, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> All of Europe uses one basic writing system, yet nobody considers all the
> various languages of Europe as mere dialects of some one language.
Yes, but that has little to do with how a non-European culture might
classify things.
> the languages [of India] are still too distinct and different to be
> considered just
> one language, except especially Hindi and Urdu, which are rather close.
>From an objective, linguistics-oriented, point of view, that's true.
But if the linguistically-naive speakers of those languages are of the
opinion that a language "doesn't count" unless it does have it's own
script, stating that that it does is not going to change that
sociological reality.
So, it is entirely plausible that using a different script may give a
language sufficient prestige to promote its adoption to overcome the
slight additional difficulty of learning a new writing system.
Apart from the realm of auxlanging, that's kind of a neat idea to keep
in mind for doing language-contact stuff in diachronic conlanging.
-l.
Messages in this topic (7)
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4a. Verbs as locative verbnouns
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 3:47 pm ((PST))
Hallo conlangers,
I'm creating my first conlang and I wanted it to have no stopwords/closed
word classes (adpositions, conjunctions, particles, measure words, pronouns
of any kind and so on).
And due to the lack of reference (anaphora) words like subordinating
conjunctions or pronouns, the verbs in my conlang turned into verbnouns, so
that subordination would still be able to be performed and my conlang would
not look like a childish speech, e.g. I eat cake. The cake is good. The
cake flavor was chocolate. The cake ... or I saw the girl, the girl was
playing a guitar, one of the guitar strings was broken. And so on...
But yesterday, when I was reading Rick Morneau's essay (
http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html), I saw that he divided
the verbs into static and dynamic verbs.
Today I was thinking that the static verbs could be interpreted as a
locative/inessive case, e.g. I am free. > My state in freedom. In my
conlang state-1SG.POSS freedom-LOC.
And the dynamic verbs could be interpreted as an allative case, e.g. I
escaped. > I set(made) myself free. > My making of my (own) freedom, or My
making towards (my) freedom. In my conlang make-1SG.POSS freedom-ALL.
Maybe these verbs can be interpreted as places where one can be at this
moment, be moving to, be coming from and so on.
In dynamic verbs people say the state to which one thing turns.
E.g. He set himself free. This means he managed to move from nonFree state
to free state.
Maybe using other motion cases, like ablative or vialis one can create more
complex statements with only a few words. As can be seen in the nest two
examples.
Example 1 (Ablative): make-3SG.POSS freedom-ABL > his making (to some other
state) from my freedom (state) > his making of removing me from my freedom
state > he removed me from my freedom.
Example 2 (Vialis) ring telephone-GEN bath-VIA-1SG.POSS > the ringing of
the telephone through my bathing state > the phone rang while I was taking
a shower.
I still have another problem with my conlang that I simply cannot find the
answer. I separate my verbs into sensory/emotional/non-volitional verbs
(where the subject is the patient of the action) and other/intentional
verbs (where the subject is the agent).
The agent of the verb is represented by the possessive case as it is the
owner of the action, and the patient by the genitive as it is a mere
complement of that action.
So, Mary eats the cake is eat Mary-POSS cake-GEN (Mary's eating of the
cake), and Peter cried is cry Peter-GEN (The crying of Peter).
But there are sensory verbs which have both subject and object. In Mary
sees John, Mary is the patient, what is John? How could it be written in my
conlang? see Mary-GEN John-??? (The seeing of Mary ...?). Towards, maybe?
(Allative?)
Messages in this topic (4)
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4b. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
Posted by: "Brian Woodward" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 9:11 pm ((PST))
On 2012 Jan 1, at 5:46 PM, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro wrote:
> Hallo conlangers,
>
> I'm creating my first conlang and I wanted it to have no stopwords/closed
> word classes (adpositions, conjunctions, particles, measure words, pronouns
> of any kind and so on).
>
> And due to the lack of reference (anaphora) words like subordinating
> conjunctions or pronouns, the verbs in my conlang turned into verbnouns, so
> that subordination would still be able to be performed and my conlang would
> not look like a childish speech, e.g. I eat cake. The cake is good. The
> cake flavor was chocolate. The cake ... or I saw the girl, the girl was
> playing a guitar, one of the guitar strings was broken. And so on...
>
>
> But yesterday, when I was reading Rick Morneau's essay (
> http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html), I saw that he divided
> the verbs into static and dynamic verbs.
>
> Today I was thinking that the static verbs could be interpreted as a
> locative/inessive case, e.g. I am free. > My state in freedom. In my
> conlang state-1SG.POSS freedom-LOC.
> And the dynamic verbs could be interpreted as an allative case, e.g. I
> escaped. > I set(made) myself free. > My making of my (own) freedom, or My
> making towards (my) freedom. In my conlang make-1SG.POSS freedom-ALL.
>
> Maybe these verbs can be interpreted as places where one can be at this
> moment, be moving to, be coming from and so on.
>
>
> In dynamic verbs people say the state to which one thing turns.
> E.g. He set himself free. This means he managed to move from nonFree state
> to free state.
>
> Maybe using other motion cases, like ablative or vialis one can create more
> complex statements with only a few words. As can be seen in the nest two
> examples.
>
> Example 1 (Ablative): make-3SG.POSS freedom-ABL > his making (to some other
> state) from my freedom (state) > his making of removing me from my freedom
> state > he removed me from my freedom.
> Example 2 (Vialis) ring telephone-GEN bath-VIA-1SG.POSS > the ringing of
> the telephone through my bathing state > the phone rang while I was taking
> a shower.
>
>
>
>
> I still have another problem with my conlang that I simply cannot find the
> answer. I separate my verbs into sensory/emotional/non-volitional verbs
> (where the subject is the patient of the action) and other/intentional
> verbs (where the subject is the agent).
> The agent of the verb is represented by the possessive case as it is the
> owner of the action, and the patient by the genitive as it is a mere
> complement of that action.
>
> So, Mary eats the cake is eat Mary-POSS cake-GEN (Mary's eating of the
> cake), and Peter cried is cry Peter-GEN (The crying of Peter).
> But there are sensory verbs which have both subject and object. In Mary
> sees John, Mary is the patient, what is John? How could it be written in my
> conlang? see Mary-GEN John-??? (The seeing of Mary ...?). Towards, maybe?
> (Allative?)
Towards (as you said), to, on, at, into (depending on meaning). I like the idea
you have going there. It's definitely unique!
Messages in this topic (4)
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4c. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 2, 2012 4:11 am ((PST))
I've had similar ideas in my conlang, where I actually had a two-case
system for a word: the one dealing with the "verb class" and another with
the "direction". Every word was in effect a verbnoun, but clearly there are
still lots of complications because of that, and I still can't get rid of
"childspeech".
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:11 AM, Brian Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2012 Jan 1, at 5:46 PM, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro wrote:
>
> > Hallo conlangers,
> >
> > I'm creating my first conlang and I wanted it to have no stopwords/closed
> > word classes (adpositions, conjunctions, particles, measure words,
> pronouns
> > of any kind and so on).
> >
> > And due to the lack of reference (anaphora) words like subordinating
> > conjunctions or pronouns, the verbs in my conlang turned into verbnouns,
> so
> > that subordination would still be able to be performed and my conlang
> would
> > not look like a childish speech, e.g. I eat cake. The cake is good. The
> > cake flavor was chocolate. The cake ... or I saw the girl, the girl was
> > playing a guitar, one of the guitar strings was broken. And so on...
> >
> >
> > But yesterday, when I was reading Rick Morneau's essay (
> > http://www.eskimo.com/~ram/lexical_semantics.html), I saw that he
> divided
> > the verbs into static and dynamic verbs.
> >
> > Today I was thinking that the static verbs could be interpreted as a
> > locative/inessive case, e.g. I am free. > My state in freedom. In my
> > conlang state-1SG.POSS freedom-LOC.
> > And the dynamic verbs could be interpreted as an allative case, e.g. I
> > escaped. > I set(made) myself free. > My making of my (own) freedom, or
> My
> > making towards (my) freedom. In my conlang make-1SG.POSS freedom-ALL.
> >
> > Maybe these verbs can be interpreted as places where one can be at this
> > moment, be moving to, be coming from and so on.
> >
> >
> > In dynamic verbs people say the state to which one thing turns.
> > E.g. He set himself free. This means he managed to move from nonFree
> state
> > to free state.
> >
> > Maybe using other motion cases, like ablative or vialis one can create
> more
> > complex statements with only a few words. As can be seen in the nest two
> > examples.
> >
> > Example 1 (Ablative): make-3SG.POSS freedom-ABL > his making (to some
> other
> > state) from my freedom (state) > his making of removing me from my
> freedom
> > state > he removed me from my freedom.
> > Example 2 (Vialis) ring telephone-GEN bath-VIA-1SG.POSS > the ringing of
> > the telephone through my bathing state > the phone rang while I was
> taking
> > a shower.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I still have another problem with my conlang that I simply cannot find
> the
> > answer. I separate my verbs into sensory/emotional/non-volitional verbs
> > (where the subject is the patient of the action) and other/intentional
> > verbs (where the subject is the agent).
> > The agent of the verb is represented by the possessive case as it is the
> > owner of the action, and the patient by the genitive as it is a mere
> > complement of that action.
> >
> > So, Mary eats the cake is eat Mary-POSS cake-GEN (Mary's eating of the
> > cake), and Peter cried is cry Peter-GEN (The crying of Peter).
> > But there are sensory verbs which have both subject and object. In Mary
> > sees John, Mary is the patient, what is John? How could it be written in
> my
> > conlang? see Mary-GEN John-??? (The seeing of Mary ...?). Towards, maybe?
> > (Allative?)
>
>
>
> Towards (as you said), to, on, at, into (depending on meaning). I like the
> idea you have going there. It's definitely unique!
>
Messages in this topic (4)
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4d. Re: Verbs as locative verbnouns
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 2, 2012 5:30 am ((PST))
On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 10:10 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>wrote:
> I've had similar ideas in my conlang, where I actually had a two-case
> system for a word: the one dealing with the "verb class" and another with
> the "direction". Every word was in effect a verbnoun, but clearly there are
> still lots of complications because of that, and I still can't get rid of
> "childspeech".
>
>
In my conlang there are no pronouns, only determiners (represented as
affixes attached to the words they modify).
So one can say "my book is blue" as "state book-GEN-1SG.POSS blue-ASS" (ASS
representing the associative case, equivalent to English preposition "as").
This can roughly be translated as "The state of my book as blue".
One can even say "this book is blue, it is mine and it is old", simplifying
this sentence into "this my book is blue and old" and can write it this
way: "state book-GEN-1SG.POSS blue-ASS old-COM" (COM representing the
comitative case, which is used instead of an additive conjunction). This
can roughly be translated as "The state of my book as blue and (together
with) old".
Even sentences that usually require a special word from some pronouns, e.g.
sentences in which pronouns are used as its indirect object (Latin mihi,
German dir and so on), can be written without using specific words for
these pronouns, and only the possessive determiner affix can be used, as
can eb seen below:
"He gave the book to me" can be written as "making-3SG.POSS
possess-GEN-1SG.POSS book-GEN" (His making of my possess(ing) of the book).
But as any other nominal, pronouns can use any case a noun can use. So
there are still some sentences that are still impossible to write in my
conlang, for instance the ones in which there is a pronoun in comitative
case. I simply can't write words like "I went to the restaurant with her".
As I understood your conlang also lacks some word classes. Does it lack
pronouns? If it lacks it, how have you solved this problem?
Messages in this topic (4)
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5a. Barsoomian units of length (was: Barsoomian Project)
Posted by: "Fredrik Ekman" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 1, 2012 5:52 pm ((PST))
This is a comment on Donald Boozer's fifth blog post on the Barsoomian
language, titled "Adventures in Barsoomian Continued..." and published at
http://library.conlang.org/blog/?p=630. At this time, there are no further
post, so this is going to be the last comment for the time being.
Don,
Not much for me to comment on this time. Your suggestions are not
impossible, but many other possibilities remain open. For instance, since
karad is 1/360th of the planet's circumference at the equator, I like to
think that kar could mean 'degree (or segment) of a circle'. It is silly,
of course, that the Barsoomians should have the same division of the
circle as we do, but as I (half in jest) suggested in Barsoomian 101, Part
4: Numbers (ERB-APA #99), this could be an indication of contact between
the Barsoomians and the Sumerians. As I hinted in an earlier post, Okar
(which is a nation, not a city) could just as well be analyzed Ok+ar as
O+kar.
You call the morphemes sof, ha and kar prefixes, but we do not know that
they are such. The units of length could just as well be compounds. My own
analysis of Barsoomian word beginnings and endings in Barsoomian 101, Part
8: Morphology (ERB-APA #107) revealed no probable prefixes in the known
vocabulary, but several probable or possible suffixes, so I remain
somewhat skeptical towards all suggestions of prefixes is Barsoomian.
There may exist some, certainly, but I always look for an alternative
explanation first.
There is one unit of length which you missed, namely the sof, which is
1/10th of a sofad. This complicates matters somewhat, since it gives the
units sof - sofad - ad; each 1/10th of the next. Thus, according to your
interpretation, we have one 'small ad' and another which is just 'small'.
That is not to say that I have a better suggestion.
Fredrik
Messages in this topic (10)
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6a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part IV
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 2, 2012 12:32 am ((PST))
On 27 December 2011 20:40, neo gu <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I have no comments on it
Apparently nobody else either :/ .
> except that the peculiar use of the cases of
> the infinitive and participle in the verbal constructions is consistent
> with
> the case polysemy in general.
>
>
Thanks. I'm glad somebody else agrees. When I came up with the idea of
using the noun morphology in the verb morphology (fuelled by a combination
of laziness and interest in Basque periphrastic forms ;) ), the most
difficult part was choosing the meaning of each combination of case,
non-finite form and auxiliary, in a way that wasn't too semantically weird.
I didn't want something too idiosyncratic: Moten is not a personal language
(well, for all intents and purposes it is, but it isn't *designed* to be).
So I was wondering whether other people found the meaning assignment to the
various forms to be too random for comfort or not... I'm happy at one other
person doesn't find it so :) .
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (14)
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