There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Numeral Systems
From: Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik
1b. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Koppa Dasao
1c. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Jim Henry
1d. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1e. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Charles W Brickner
1f. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Sam Stutter
1g. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Peter Cyrus
1h. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Roger Mills
1i. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Koppa Dasao
1j. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Koppa Dasao
1k. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Koppa Dasao
1l. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Brian A. Woodward
1m. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Adam Walker
1n. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Herman Miller
1o. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik
1p. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Padraic Brown
1q. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Padraic Brown
1r. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Alex Fink
1s. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Brian
2.1. "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
From: taliesin the storyteller
2.2. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
From: Gary Shannon
2.3. Re: "Discourse and Function"
From: Ph. D.
2.4. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
From: MorphemeAddict
2.5. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
From: Gary Shannon
3.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: Michael Everson
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:29 am ((PST))
Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your own
numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal system? (I use
8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Koppa Dasao" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:48 am ((PST))
Octals are easy.
262144-32768-4096-512-64-8-1
2012=3734
Any decent calculator, including the one's in Windows, are capable of
transforming decimals to octals by a click on a button. Just run
Calculator and click View-Programmer or Alt+3, and you got at decimal
<-->octal converter.
By the way, the Illomi use decimal.
Koppa Dasao
___
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
2012/1/7 Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik <[email protected]>:
> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
> systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
> own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal system?
> (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:56 am ((PST))
On 1/7/12, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
> systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
> own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal system?
gjâ-zym-byn uses three different systems: one based on adding and
multiplying prime numbers, for smallish numbers (in the range of about
1-29), a base ten system, and a base sixteen system (the latter
usually only in a computer science context).
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/gzb/deriv.htm#section2
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:04 am ((PST))
Hallo conlangers!
On Saturday 07 January 2012 16:29:35 Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik wrote:
> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
> systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
> own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal
> system? (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
Old Albic has a base 12 numeral system.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1e. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 9:05 am ((PST))
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Koppa Dasao
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2012 10:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Numeral Systems
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
Sounds like "no cross, no crown" to me.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1f. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:18 am ((PST))
Nỳspèke has been using a base-10 system for a while now, just because it's
been easier. Recently, however, I've been developing the number system "it's
always deserved". As it stands it's base-7; the reasons being that it ties to
the language's definitions of the levels of plurality (dual, trial, paucal,
plural) where plural ⥠7, gives reasonably round numbers when calculating
time periods, etc and because 7 is a *really cool* number. It just is.
When working in a base other than 10, I find it easier to think along the lines
of powers. 10^3 = 1000, so writing 1000 in base-7 means 7^3 = 343 in base-10,
etc. If you can remember the powers of the number you're working with, it's
easier to get a sense of scale, then you can work out the fiddly bits later on.
As there is, as yet, no Nỳspèke script, I'm still using Arabic numerals.
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na il cu barri"
On 7 Jan 2012, at 17:04, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> Hallo conlangers!
>
> On Saturday 07 January 2012 16:29:35 Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik wrote:
>
>> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
>> systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
>> own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal
>> system? (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
>
> Old Albic has a base 12 numeral system.
>
> --
> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
> "Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1g. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Peter Cyrus" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:04 am ((PST))
Shwa has a balanced dozenal system, with digits -6 to +6.
http://www.shwa.org/numbers.htm
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nỳspèke has been using a base-10 system for a while now, just because it's
> been easier. Recently, however, I've been developing the number system "it's
> always deserved". As it stands it's base-7; the reasons being that it ties to
> the language's definitions of the levels of plurality (dual, trial, paucal,
> plural) where plural ⥠7, gives reasonably round numbers when calculating
> time periods, etc and because 7 is a *really cool* number. It just is.
>
> When working in a base other than 10, I find it easier to think along the
> lines of powers. 10^3 = 1000, so writing 1000 in base-7 means 7^3 = 343 in
> base-10, etc. If you can remember the powers of the number you're working
> with, it's easier to get a sense of scale, then you can work out the fiddly
> bits later on.
>
> As there is, as yet, no Nỳspèke script, I'm still using Arabic numerals.
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na il cu barri"
>
>
>
> On 7 Jan 2012, at 17:04, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
>
>> Hallo conlangers!
>>
>> On Saturday 07 January 2012 16:29:35 Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
>>> systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
>>> own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal
>>> system? (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
>>
>> Old Albic has a base 12 numeral system.
>>
>> --
>> ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
>> http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
>> "Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1h. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:39 am ((PST))
From: Koppa Dasao <[email protected]>
Octals are easy.
262144-32768-4096-512-64-8-1
2012=3734
RM: up to a point, yes.....
Any decent calculator, including the one's in Windows, are capable of
transforming decimals to octals by a click on a button. Just run
Calculator and click View-Programmer or Alt+3, and you got at decimal
<-->octal converter.
RM I did not know that... will investigate.
The Gwr used to use octal, (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10) but switched to decimal to
facilitate international trade (The Kash used decimal).
At one point I made up a little multiplication table, which had some amusing
properties-- e.g. 3*3=11; 2*4=10; the list of Fibonacci numbers is also
interesting. At one point I could add and subtract reasonably accurately :-))))
Messages in this topic (19)
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1i. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Koppa Dasao" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:54 am ((PST))
(25143+14253)*(11*7)=?
0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 42, 67, 131, 220, 351, 571.... I see
what you mean...
Koppa Dasao
___
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
2012/1/7 Roger Mills <[email protected]>:
> From: Koppa Dasao <[email protected]>
>
> Octals are easy.
> 262144-32768-4096-512-64-8-1
> 2012=3734
>
> RM: up to a point, yes.....
>
> Any decent calculator, including the one's in Windows, are capable of
> transforming decimals to octals by a click on a button. Just run
> Calculator and click View-Programmer or Alt+3, and you got at decimal
> <-->octal converter.
>
> RM I did not know that... will investigate.
>
> The Gwr used to use octal, (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10) but switched to decimal to
> facilitate international trade (The Kash used decimal).
>
> At one point I made up a little multiplication table, which had some amusing
> properties-- e.g. 3*3=11; 2*4=10; the list of Fibonacci numbers is also
> interesting. At one point I could add and subtract reasonably accurately
> :-))))
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1j. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Koppa Dasao" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 11:56 am ((PST))
For the rest of them, check out this page: http://oeis.org/A004691
Koppa Dasao
___
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
2012/1/7 Koppa Dasao <[email protected]>:
> (25143+14253)*(11*7)=?
> 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 42, 67, 131, 220, 351, 571.... I see
> what you mean...
>
> Koppa Dasao
> ___
> 2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
> The year of democracy.
>
>
>
> 2012/1/7 Roger Mills <[email protected]>:
>> From: Koppa Dasao <[email protected]>
>>
>> Octals are easy.
>> 262144-32768-4096-512-64-8-1
>> 2012=3734
>>
>> RM: up to a point, yes.....
>>
>> Any decent calculator, including the one's in Windows, are capable of
>> transforming decimals to octals by a click on a button. Just run
>> Calculator and click View-Programmer or Alt+3, and you got at decimal
>> <-->octal converter.
>>
>> RM I did not know that... will investigate.
>>
>> The Gwr used to use octal, (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10) but switched to decimal to
>> facilitate international trade (The Kash used decimal).
>>
>> At one point I made up a little multiplication table, which had some amusing
>> properties-- e.g. 3*3=11; 2*4=10; the list of Fibonacci numbers is also
>> interesting. At one point I could add and subtract reasonably accurately
>> :-))))
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1k. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Koppa Dasao" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:07 pm ((PST))
Sorry, have to make one more reply.
I remember the inspector at my second junior high school gave me a
little test. He gave me a sheet of paper with 10 different
multiplications where all the answers where the exact same. I was told
to solve the sheet. Not exactly an easy task for most people, i guess,
but I took a peek at the sheet and gave it back to him, telling him
that all the answers where correct because each multiplication was
made in a base 1 higher than the previous one. I don't think he ever
had a pupil solving his puzzle within 10 seconds of giving it.
Koppa Dasao
___
2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the Muslim world:
The year of democracy.
2012/1/7 Roger Mills <[email protected]>:
> From: Koppa Dasao <[email protected]>
>
> Octals are easy.
> 262144-32768-4096-512-64-8-1
> 2012=3734
>
> RM: up to a point, yes.....
>
> Any decent calculator, including the one's in Windows, are capable of
> transforming decimals to octals by a click on a button. Just run
> Calculator and click View-Programmer or Alt+3, and you got at decimal
> <-->octal converter.
>
> RM I did not know that... will investigate.
>
> The Gwr used to use octal, (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 10) but switched to decimal to
> facilitate international trade (The Kash used decimal).
>
> At one point I made up a little multiplication table, which had some amusing
> properties-- e.g. 3*3=11; 2*4=10; the list of Fibonacci numbers is also
> interesting. At one point I could add and subtract reasonably accurately
> :-))))
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1l. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Brian A. Woodward" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 12:26 pm ((PST))
I've been toying with a base 9 system. And while I am wanting to develop a
unique writing system I am planning on still using the Arabic numerals. That
being said, my base 9 system will be set up slightly differently using the
digit 9
instead of 0 (i.e. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 33 34 35
36
37 38 39 etc.).
Messages in this topic (19)
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1m. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:16 pm ((PST))
Alelliawulian in base 5:
1 enewe
2 allana
3 iinene
4 owu
5 enewaw
6 enewwe
7 enewallana
8 enewiinene
9 enewowu
10 allanaw
11 allanwe
12 allanallana
13 allaniinene
14 allanowu
15 iinenaw
16 iinenwe
17 iinenallana
18 iineniinene
19 iinenowu
20 owaw
21 owwe
22 owallana
23 owiinene
24 owowu
25 umwelle
Graavgaaln is base twelve, and I'll spare you the counting up to 12^5.
Tvern El is base-10, I beleive (not entirely sure) but there are some
traces of a base-3, or at least the privileged place of the number three
has produced som special forms for multiples of three, or some such.
I'm not knowledgable enough about my other exolangs to be sure what their
number-bases are.
As for Carrajina, it's a Romalang, so any oddities in its number system are
inherited from Vulgar Latin.
Adam
Messages in this topic (19)
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1n. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 3:02 pm ((PST))
On 1/7/2012 10:29 AM, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik wrote:
> Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and
> numeral systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do
> you have your own numeral system, do you use something different than
> the decimal system? (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain
> it?).
Tirelat is a good example of a language with a duodecimal system (base
12). Basically everything is counted in dozens. So 12 is "kaž", 24 (two
dozen) is "dÅah kaž", and so on up to 144 (12 dozen, or one gross),
which is "ëvaž". The next number word is "gaÅÅ¡i", which represents 1,728
(12^3), then "xamahri" for 20,736 (12^4).
For even larger numbers, combinations of those are used, from "kaž
xamahri" (12^5) up to "gaÅÅ¡i xamahri" (12^7). For 12^8, which is over
400 million, instead of "xamahri xamahri" the infix -za- is added
(xamahzari).
Zariva uses an odd combination of base 5 and base 7, which I've
discussed before so I'll just refer to
http://www.frathwiki.com/Azirian_numbers.
Messages in this topic (19)
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1o. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 3:48 pm ((PST))
Hi! I got many good ideas, thanks for answers. I ended up with this. (Long list
below). Features: Greek Inspired Numeral System (Modified, a lot!) Base-8
System. Tell me what you think. The characters are actually written until I get
a font, so some of them are different. The 50 sign is actually half the size.
600 is not a check mark, it's a v with one long side actually.I like it because
you can express big numbers with few characters. The apostrophe only shows that
it is a number, since I use some of these characters in my alphabet too. The
apostrophe behind shows that it is a thousand, which you can see.
1 = 'α2 = 'ι3 = 'ε4 = 'η5 = 'μ6 = 'v7 = 'ξ10 = 'o11 = 'oα12 = 'oι13 =
'oε14 = 'oη15 = 'oμ16 = 'ov17 = 'oξ
20 = 'Ï30 = 'p40 = 'Ï50 = 'Σ 60 = 'л70 = 'Ï100 = 'x
101 = 'xα110 = 'xo127 = 'xÏξ200 = 'u300 = 'Ï400 = 'Ê500 = 'á´·600 =
'â700 = 'λ1000 = 'Ï
1001 = 'Ïα1010 = 'Ïo1100 = 'Ïx1011 = 'Ïoα1110 = 'Ïxo1111 = 'Ïxoα2000 =
'ι'3000 = 'ε'4000 = 'η'5000 = 'μ'5050 = 'μ'Σ6000 = 'v'7000 = 'ξ'
10 000 = 'Î100 000 = 'M 1000 000 = 'Î
> Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 18:02:10 -0500
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Numeral Systems
> To: [email protected]
>
> On 1/7/2012 10:29 AM, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik wrote:
> > Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and
> > numeral systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do
> > you have your own numeral system, do you use something different than
> > the decimal system? (I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain
> > it?).
>
> Tirelat is a good example of a language with a duodecimal system (base
> 12). Basically everything is counted in dozens. So 12 is "kaž", 24 (two
> dozen) is "dÅah kaž", and so on up to 144 (12 dozen, or one gross),
> which is "ëvaž". The next number word is "gaÅÅ¡i", which represents 1,728
> (12^3), then "xamahri" for 20,736 (12^4).
>
> For even larger numbers, combinations of those are used, from "kaž
> xamahri" (12^5) up to "gaÅÅ¡i xamahri" (12^7). For 12^8, which is over
> 400 million, instead of "xamahri xamahri" the infix -za- is added
> (xamahzari).
>
> Zariva uses an odd combination of base 5 and base 7, which I've
> discussed before so I'll just refer to
> http://www.frathwiki.com/Azirian_numbers.
Messages in this topic (19)
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1p. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:15 pm ((PST))
--- On Sat, 1/7/12, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi. For some reason I have gotten
> very interested in conmath and numeral systems. So I'm
> basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
> own numeral system, do you use something different than the
> decimal system?
Talarian of the Eastlands of the World uses base-12 for ordinary counting
purposes. Although Talarian is an Aryan language, its native numbers are
not of IE descent:
0, safra, tlaram; 1, çatla; 2, rilo; 3, hohoc; 4, limtellor; 5, pamtra; 6,
rimtelloc; 7, matellor; 8, pretellor; 9, amtelloc; 10, rapamtra; 11,
hacra; 12, himtroc; 13, çatla-wa-himtroc; 14, rilo-wa-himtroc; etc.
Multiples of twelve are: 24, rintroc; 36, hotroc; 48, limtroc; 60,
pamtroc; 72, rimtroc; 84, matroc; 96, partroc; 108, hamtroc; 120,
rapamtroc; 144, maharaç; 1728, sahaçram.
For purposes of accounting and such maths as a scholar might need to do,
a base-10 system of numbers is used, borrowed probably from some Hindo-
Greek kingdom:
1, ecas (C.), ecar (N.); 2, twwo; 3, trayas (C.), trayan (N.); 4, cattâror; 5,
pamtras; 6, ççaç; 7, saptas; 8, açtor; 9, nâfa; 10, lâsa; 100, satem.
Different sets of numeral signs are used for each system.
Loucarian, in the Uttermost West, has a fairly mundane Greek derived
system of base-10 numbers:
0, sifra; 1, êwas; 2, douo; 3, trais; 4, tethris; 5, pumpe; 6, hescis; 7,
heptis; 8, octo; 9, nawis; 10, dessas; 100, heccaton; 1000, milia; 10000,
muriadis.
What is curious is that anciently, Helladic letters were used to write
numerals. After the ninth century or so, Hindo-Greek numerals came to be
used to write the cardinals. The Helladic letter system shifted to the
ordinals, which thus displaced a system closely related to the old Reman
numerals that had been in use in some places in the Empire centuries past.
For mathematics, astrology and other philosophies requiring numbers, a
base-60 system is used.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (19)
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1q. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:16 pm ((PST))
--- On Sat, 1/7/12, Charles W Brickner <[email protected]> wrote:
> 2012 - In the west: The year of the dictators; in the
> Muslim world: The year of democracy.
>
> Sounds like "no cross, no crown" to me.
In any event, interesting times all around! We'll have to see how well his
prognostication turns out.
Padraic
>
> Charlie
>
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1r. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:45 pm ((PST))
triple-barreled reply:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 16:29:35 +0100, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal system?
(I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
Among my conlangs:
Pjaukra: base 12, boring. AhH: base 10, boring. Kibyl@i~: base 10, with
some subtractive formations (a bit like Latin or Hindi?).
Kenakoliku (joint but IIRC this was my proposal) has basically a balanced
decimal system: ... ten and three ten and four, ten and half-ten, two tens
less four, two tens less three, ...
Sabasasaj I haven't actually worked out numbers larger than 120 enough to
fix the pattern, but the likeliest thing is base 120 with subbase 10. The
distinctive thing is that the tens are formed as _fractions_: they are
additive combinations of 60, 40, 30, 20 (and 10) whose names are based on
1/2, 1/3, 1/4, and 1/6 (10 is basic).
UNLWS is somewhat like gzb, in that it has both multiplicative / exponential
and base-type formations for numbers, and a high expressive power overall.
We have intentionally not defined a single system of canonical expressions
for any given number, though it can be imagined that often numbers will be
written in the Griceanly-default base. Any base can be used (though it's
awkward when some of the digits don't have multiplicative expressions, so
bases > 16 are awkward right now), including an indeterminate (for easy
polynomials and Laurent series) and 1 (to fill in for the
otherwise-unprovided addition operator).
http://saizai.com/nlws.shtml header "Measure glyphs and numbers"
The gripping language has an ordinary base 60 system, in which each digit is
one press or rub, with subbase 10 at the featural level. But we envisioned
the following mindfuckly alternative:
| If one wanted to pack a subtree with numbers absolutely as densely as
| possible, one could use all sequences in a given subtree for numbers,
| just assigning their values first by length and then lexicographically.
| This would lead to a system in which the largest number we could name
| in n beats would be exponential with asymptotic base the largest
| eigenvalue of the zero-one transition matrix of beats, which (including
| ten thumb deployments as before) is about 75.04773409, better than the
| 60 of the above system. However, it seems quite unusable productively
| in real time.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:26:36 -0500, Brian A. Woodward <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I've been toying with a base 9 system. And while I am wanting to develop a
>unique writing system I am planning on still using the Arabic numerals. That
>being said, my base 9 system will be set up slightly differently using the
digit 9
>instead of 0 (i.e. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 33 34
35 36
>37 38 39 etc.).
Even with that set of digits that's not just a simple base system; if it
were one would still expect e.g. "23" to mean 2 nines and 3 = twenty-one
rather than 3 in the 2nd ennead = twelve. I suppose addition would have all
sorts of off-by-one corrections in this system.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:04:43 +0100, Peter Cyrus <[email protected]> wrote:
>Shwa has a balanced dozenal system, with digits -6 to +6.
>
>http://www.shwa.org/numbers.htm
Shwa is a writing system for extant languages, isn't it? Why does it have a
unique number system of its own?
Alex
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
1s. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Brian" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:16 pm ((PST))
Sure, one might expect to see "23" and imagine a value of "21" but my decision
to neglect the "0" is based on the lack of the concept of "nothing". I'm
honestly not sure how well this whole idea will work out for me but I'll find
out.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Fink <[email protected]>
Sender: Constructed Languages List <[email protected]>
Date: Sat, 7 Jan 2012 21:45:31
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Numeral Systems
triple-barreled reply:
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 16:29:35 +0100, Even Eclectic Tolo Dybevik
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Hi. For some reason I have gotten very interested in conmath and numeral
systems. So I'm basically wondering on how you handle it? Do you have your
own numeral system, do you use something different than the decimal system?
(I use 8, but it's hard, can someone explain it?).
Among my conlangs:
Pjaukra: base 12, boring. AhH: base 10, boring. Kibyl@i~: base 10, with
some subtractive formations (a bit like Latin or Hindi?).
Kenakoliku (joint but IIRC this was my proposal) has basically a balanced
decimal system: ... ten and three ten and four, ten and half-ten, two tens
less four, two tens less three, ...
Sabasasaj I haven't actually worked out numbers larger than 120 enough to
fix the pattern, but the likeliest thing is base 120 with subbase 10. The
distinctive thing is that the tens are formed as _fractions_: they are
additive combinations of 60, 40, 30, 20 (and 10) whose names are based on
1/2, 1/3, 1/4, and 1/6 (10 is basic).
UNLWS is somewhat like gzb, in that it has both multiplicative / exponential
and base-type formations for numbers, and a high expressive power overall.
We have intentionally not defined a single system of canonical expressions
for any given number, though it can be imagined that often numbers will be
written in the Griceanly-default base. Any base can be used (though it's
awkward when some of the digits don't have multiplicative expressions, so
bases > 16 are awkward right now), including an indeterminate (for easy
polynomials and Laurent series) and 1 (to fill in for the
otherwise-unprovided addition operator).
http://saizai.com/nlws.shtml header "Measure glyphs and numbers"
The gripping language has an ordinary base 60 system, in which each digit is
one press or rub, with subbase 10 at the featural level. But we envisioned
the following mindfuckly alternative:
| If one wanted to pack a subtree with numbers absolutely as densely as
| possible, one could use all sequences in a given subtree for numbers,
| just assigning their values first by length and then lexicographically.
| This would lead to a system in which the largest number we could name
| in n beats would be exponential with asymptotic base the largest
| eigenvalue of the zero-one transition matrix of beats, which (including
| ten thumb deployments as before) is about 75.04773409, better than the
| 60 of the above system. However, it seems quite unusable productively
| in real time.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 15:26:36 -0500, Brian A. Woodward <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I've been toying with a base 9 system. And while I am wanting to develop a
>unique writing system I am planning on still using the Arabic numerals. That
>being said, my base 9 system will be set up slightly differently using the
digit 9
>instead of 0 (i.e. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 31 32 33 34
35 36
>37 38 39 etc.).
Even with that set of digits that's not just a simple base system; if it
were one would still expect e.g. "23" to mean 2 nines and 3 = twenty-one
rather than 3 in the 2nd ennead = twelve. I suppose addition would have all
sorts of off-by-one corrections in this system.
On Sat, 7 Jan 2012 20:04:43 +0100, Peter Cyrus <[email protected]> wrote:
>Shwa has a balanced dozenal system, with digits -6 to +6.
>
>http://www.shwa.org/numbers.htm
Shwa is a writing system for extant languages, isn't it? Why does it have a
unique number system of its own?
Alex
Messages in this topic (19)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2.1. "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 10:01 am ((PST))
On 2011-12-25 22:04, Gary Shannon wrote:
> I've just downloaded this book "Discourse and Function" (pdf 418
> pages) that looks very interesting so far.
The site (http://www.discourseandfunction.com/) seems to have fallen off
the net over the holidays. Do you still have that pdf? The
Wayback-machine only have the front page and outline.
t.
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
2.2. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:11 pm ((PST))
I just clicked on the link in your email and everything seems to be
there. It might have been a temporary DNS server glitch.
--gary
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:01 AM, taliesin the storyteller
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2011-12-25 22:04, Gary Shannon wrote:
>> I've just downloaded this book "Discourse and Function" (pdf 418
>> pages) that looks very interesting so far.
>
> The site (http://www.discourseandfunction.com/) seems to have fallen off
> the net over the holidays. Do you still have that pdf? The
> Wayback-machine only have the front page and outline.
>
>
> t.
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
2.3. Re: "Discourse and Function"
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 1:56 pm ((PST))
Maybe it's cached on your computer. The link doesn't work for me.
--Ph. D.
Gary Shannon wrote:
> I just clicked on the link in your email and everything seems to be
> there. It might have been a temporary DNS server glitch.
>
> --gary
>
> taliesin the storyteller wrote:
>> The site (http://www.discourseandfunction.com/) seems to have fallen off
>> the net over the holidays. Do you still have that pdf? The
>> Wayback-machine only have the front page and outline.
>>
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
2.4. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 6:43 pm ((PST))
It didn't work for me.
stevo
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> I just clicked on the link in your email and everything seems to be
> there. It might have been a temporary DNS server glitch.
>
> --gary
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:01 AM, taliesin the storyteller
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 2011-12-25 22:04, Gary Shannon wrote:
> >> I've just downloaded this book "Discourse and Function" (pdf 418
> >> pages) that looks very interesting so far.
> >
> > The site (http://www.discourseandfunction.com/) seems to have fallen off
> > the net over the holidays. Do you still have that pdf? The
> > Wayback-machine only have the front page and outline.
> >
> >
> > t.
>
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
2.5. Re: "Discourse and Function" (was: Re: Conlang Textbook Template)
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 7:24 pm ((PST))
I guess it sas cached on my system.
I uploaded the pdf to: http://fiziwig.com/discourse_and_function.pdf
--gary
On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 6:42 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> It didn't work for me.
>
> stevo
>
> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I just clicked on the link in your email and everything seems to be
>> there. It might have been a temporary DNS server glitch.
>>
>> --gary
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 7, 2012 at 10:01 AM, taliesin the storyteller
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > On 2011-12-25 22:04, Gary Shannon wrote:
>> >> I've just downloaded this book "Discourse and Function" (pdf 418
>> >> pages) that looks very interesting so far.
>> >
>> > The site (http://www.discourseandfunction.com/) seems to have fallen off
>> > the net over the holidays. Do you still have that pdf? The
>> > Wayback-machine only have the front page and outline.
>> >
>> >
>> > t.
>>
Messages in this topic (44)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "Michael Everson" [email protected]
Date: Sat Jan 7, 2012 4:19 pm ((PST))
On 6 Jan 2012, at 04:41, Herman Miller wrote:
> On 1/5/2012 5:06 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
>> On 5 Jan 2012, at 03:28, Herman Miller wrote:
>>
>>> I've actually considered translating parts of the Alice books into Tirelat
>>> to get back into the habit of writing,
>>
>> Which of the "overlapping versions"?
>
> The difference is mainly in the vocabulary, and it'll be convenient to use
> the words I already have for "hedgehog" and "flamingo" instead of coming up
> with words for some kind of spiky animal and an odd-looking dragon. Or maybe
> the word I've translated as "flamingo" is really a kind of odd-looking
> miniature dragon after all....
OK, yes, but that still doesn't answer the question. The one intended for
humans or the one intended for the TiržaÅ? It matters in terms of it being a
translation of the book (as into Volapük or Talossan) or the adaptation of the
book (as in James' Khlìjha). Not that there isn't always grey area. The Swahili
Alice localizes the animals to African ones instead of European ones. But a
serious adaptation of a book with a non-terrestrial conworld for instance,
might well need a back-translation to go with it (like James'), where a more or
less straight translation can stand more easily on its own.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (45)
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