There are 16 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Numeral Systems
From: Brian
2a. Re: conlanging posts at GeoCurrents
From: Padraic Brown
3.1. Re: "Discourse and Function"
From: taliesin the storyteller
4. New Blog Post: Moten Part V
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
5.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
From: Herman Miller
6. grand revamp of the Talmit and Kymna pages
From: Roman Rausch
7a. (no subject)
From: Aidan Grey
7b. (no subject)
From: Gary Shannon
7c. (no subject)
From: Aidan Grey
7d. (no subject)
From: taliesin the storyteller
7e. (no subject)
From: yuri
7f. (no subject)
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
8a. Re: <No subject>
From: Carsten Becker
8b. Re: <No subject>
From: David Peterson
8c. Re: <No subject>
From: Garth Wallace
8d. Re: <No subject>
From: Aidan Grey
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Numeral Systems
Posted by: "Brian" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 8:51 am ((PST))
I have independenty decided to exempt the 11 through 19, and have done so based
on what seemed to me to be a very good reason. The only problem is that reason
was thought of very early in the morning when my son (2 months old) woke me up
needing to eat so I didn't write it down and can't remember it at the moment,
unfortunately.
However, if I can't recall the reason I will probably reinstate them.
------Original Message------
From: Alex Fink
Sender: Conlang
To: Conlang
ReplyTo: Conlang
Subject: Re: Numeral Systems
Sent: Jan 7, 2012 21:40
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 03:15:59 +0000, Brian <[email protected]> wrote:
>Sure, one might expect to see "23" and imagine a value of "21" but my
decision to neglect the "0" is based on the lack of the concept of
"nothing". I'm honestly not sure how well this whole idea will work out for
me but I'll find out.
But so here is how I'd count in base 9 with the digits 1 to 9, no zero:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29
31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39
41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49
51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59
61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69
71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79
81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89
91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99
111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119
121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 ...
You're skipping the 11 through 19 row, and you don't _have_ to do this based
solely on not having a zero. (Of course you might still independently
choose to.)
Alex
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: conlanging posts at GeoCurrents
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 10:31 am ((PST))
You didn't miss much, so don't sweat it! The first one is almost entirely
about Klingon, and both seem to be pursuing the question "How do we make
a language sufficiently alien enough to seem plausibly alien, yet easy
enough for a human actor to speak and other human fans to interact with,
once the language has been integrated into the product franchise."
The answer, obviously enough, is "throw a bunch of obscure features into a
bowl, mix well and see what you can dredge up".
Padraic
--- On Sun, 1/8/12, Alex Fink <[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Alex Fink <[email protected]>
> Subject: [CONLANG] conlanging posts at GeoCurrents
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sunday, January 8, 2012, 9:16 AM
> Posted w/out comment 'cause my flight
> boards in three minutes.
>
> http://geocurrents.info/imaginary-geography/speculative-fiction-and-language
> http://geocurrents.info/imaginary-geography/how-to-create-an-exotic-language-navi-and-dothraki
> more to come later in the week?
>
> Alex
>
Messages in this topic (2)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3.1. Re: "Discourse and Function"
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 11:05 am ((PST))
On 2012-01-08 04:24, Gary Shannon wrote:
> I guess it sas cached on my system.
The domain name wasn't paid so it timed out around new years eve. It's
been paid for another year now (from today and on actually) and thus
accessible again.
Let this be a reminder not to let your domains lapse, people :)
t.
Messages in this topic (45)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
4. New Blog Post: Moten Part V
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:21 pm ((PST))
Hi everyone,
I'm happy to announce that this time, it didn't take me 2 years to finish a
new blog article about the Moten language. After only 3 weeks of hard
typing :) , I've managed to publish a new blog post about Moten grammar,
entitled: "Moten, Part V: Verbs and Subordinate Clauses". As I promised
last time, in this post I describe how the auxiliary verbs can be used as
fully-fledged verbs (there are a few surprises, so I hope you'll read that
part :) ). And I also start discussing subordination in Moten, describing
first the dependent verbal forms, and then discussing relative and
completive subclauses (I'll discuss adverbial subclauses in a future post).
The posts ends with a part on how to handle reported speech. This post
contains the first examples of sentences containing more than one verb, so
it should give a better idea of how Moten looks like in practice.
This post is much shorter than the last one. In fact, it's the second
shortest one I've written about Moten so far, clocking at just a hair above
5000 words (only the very first post about Moten was shorter). So it should
be much easier for everyone to handle.
The post is available directly at
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/2012/01/moten-part-v-verbs-and-subordinate.htmlor
through my blog's main page's address as given in my signature, as
usual. Of course, if you have any comment/question/remark, don't hesitate
to post a comment on my blog, or reply to this e-mail. We managed to get
some kind of a discussion going on with the last one, so let's try and get
some life into this one as well! :P I'm quite interested to know what
people find of the way Moten handles relative and completive subclauses,
and how their own conlangs handle that themselves (long ago, I was
surprised to discover how diverse the strategies are to form relative
clauses in natlangs!). I'm also very interested to know what people think
of the way Moten handles reported speech, and how their conlangs handle the
reference switch that happens in those sentences. Let's just say that Moten
does it in a way that is not completely the same as in English, so I'm
curious to know if other people have given this phenomenon some thought.
If you want to (re-)read the previous posts on Moten, I've created a static
page where they are all linked to in order of publication, with an abstract
and a word count, so people know where they're getting into ;) . This
static page is available at
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/p/moten-language.html
In the next post about Moten, I'll take a short break from verbal
morphology and will finally describe how to form negations in Moten. I will
also explain how to form yes-no questions (and how to answer them). This
should be an easy and (relatively) short article :) .
Cheers!
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
5.1. Re: New Year's Thoughts
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 12:42 pm ((PST))
On 1/7/2012 7:19 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
> On 6 Jan 2012, at 04:41, Herman Miller wrote:
>
>> On 1/5/2012 5:06 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
>>> On 5 Jan 2012, at 03:28, Herman Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've actually considered translating parts of the Alice books
>>>> into Tirelat to get back into the habit of writing,
>>>
>>> Which of the "overlapping versions"?
>>
>> The difference is mainly in the vocabulary, and it'll be convenient
>> to use the words I already have for "hedgehog" and "flamingo"
>> instead of coming up with words for some kind of spiky animal and
>> an odd-looking dragon. Or maybe the word I've translated as
>> "flamingo" is really a kind of odd-looking miniature dragon after
>> all....
>
>
> OK, yes, but that still doesn't answer the question. The one intended
> for humans or the one intended for the Tiržaŕ? It matters in terms of
> it being a translation of the book (as into Volapük or Talossan) or
> the adaptation of the book (as in James' Khlìjha). Not that there
> isn't always grey area. The Swahili Alice localizes the animals to
> African ones instead of European ones. But a serious adaptation of a
> book with a non-terrestrial conworld for instance, might well need a
> back-translation to go with it (like James'), where a more or less
> straight translation can stand more easily on its own.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
I guess the question is whether it's better to translate it more or less
faithfully to the original, or to fully localize it. I think if the
situation was reversed, if I were to translate a dream-world story from
Tirelat to English, I wouldn't want to make too many substitutions to
make it into a story set on modern-day Earth. Imagine the game Okami
translated into English with Orochi translated as "Hydra", Issun as "Tom
Thumb", or the sword Tsukuyomi as "Excalibur". I don't think I want to
go too far in that direction.
On the other hand, some degree of adaptation is probably a good idea. To
use another game example, I doubt if Pokémon would have been nearly as
popular if you started out with Fushigidane, Hitokage, and Zenigame
instead of Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Squirtle. So with the croquet
game, the flamingo mallets could be described as some kind of
odd-looking dragon. (Of course, by "dragon" I mean a class of animals
that somewhat resemble dragons, for which the Tirelat word is "linahr",
ranging in size from tiny to huge.)
But I've been trying to come up with an equivalent of "croquet" that
would make sense, as it's basically a game played on lawns and Sangari
don't have lawns. I decided that it doesn't really matter, since it
would be just as funny to have a game played with live animals on a
field of grass even if the original rules of the game would be
unfamiliar to the readers. So I could just translate "croquet" as
something that would make sense in Tirelat, but wouldn't have to be the
name of an actual game.
I might adapt "roses" to something more native, since I have a
fundamental problem with painting them red ... Sangari can't see the
color red! So either I'll need to change the paint to black, or
something else has to change. Maybe the Queen wanted yellow roses in
this version of the story.
Messages in this topic (47)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
6. grand revamp of the Talmit and Kymna pages
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 2:53 pm ((PST))
I'd like to announce a major rehaul of the Talmit website. The main page can
now be found at: http://www.sindanoorie.net/ (right column).
At first I have the Talmit and Kymna descriptions (synchronic & diachronic
phonology + grammar) both in html:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Talmit.html
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Kymna.html
and pdf:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Talmit.pdf
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Kymna.pdf
If you prefer, you can also view the former in a piecemeal version, with a
new page for every chapter:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Talmit000.html
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Kymna000.html
Note the texts at the end, indeed with glosses. Since several grammatical
features are self-invented, I'm not too sure whether the they will really
help, but there you go.
Note also the state-of-the-art Venn diagram:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/Talmit_Venn.png
There is also a cat.
I had posted sound samples of 'The Crow and the Fox' earlier on the list.
Here they are again:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/mp3/Talmit_Hjelpasekarka.mp3
http://www.sindanoorie.net/mp3/Kymna_Seileskarha.mp3
They got outdated in some respects, but should suffice for now.
And ideophones, yay! Although I just put them under the term 'sound-symbolism':
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/phonosymb.php
The list of roots also has improved looks:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/etym.php
That's the preferred view, but Talmit and Kymna wordlists can be extracted
(I'm still experimenting with XML):
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/tallist.php
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/kymlist.php
And last but not least: Since the first impression of the language usually
was that some grammatical elements seemed to be engelangy, I made a page
with historical anecdotes trying to explain how these and other features
might have arisen historically:
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/historical.html
http://www.sindanoorie.net/glp/historical.pdf
It's gotten very involved by now, I'm not sure that anyone will be able to
follow, but I mainly did it to set those things straight for myself. Still,
it's exciting, so check it out. Right now.
Messages in this topic (1)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
7a. (no subject)
Posted by: "Aidan Grey" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 5:46 pm ((PST))
http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7b. (no subject)
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:17 pm ((PST))
SPAM ALERT
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Aidan Grey <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7c. (no subject)
Posted by: "Aidan Grey" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:56 pm ((PST))
G*ddamnit!! Sorry all.
>________________________________
> From: Gary Shannon <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 8:17 PM
>Subject:
>
>SPAM ALERT
>
>On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 5:46 PM, Aidan Grey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7d. (no subject)
Posted by: "taliesin the storyteller" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2012 12:18 am ((PST))
On 2012-01-09 06:55, Aidan Grey wrote:
> G*ddamnit!! Sorry all.
You seem to be using Yahoo Mail. It might be that your browser has
acquired a trojan plugin or toolbar that does this.
If you've run anti-whatever programs and this still happens, it's time
for a reinstall. Put down on paper the password/usernames you use, put
images and documents on a cd, and reformat the hard disk. Then do a
reinstall.
t.
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7e. (no subject)
Posted by: "yuri" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2012 1:07 am ((PST))
On 9 January 2012 21:17, taliesin the storyteller wrote:
> If you've run anti-whatever programs and this still happens, it's time for
> a reinstall. Put down on paper the password/usernames you use, put
> images and documents on a cd, and reformat the hard disk. Then do a
> reinstall.
And if you're going to reinstall, now's a good time to investigate
your options regarding operating systems.
Microsoft is no longer the only game in town.
Yuri
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
7f. (no subject)
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Mon Jan 9, 2012 3:37 am ((PST))
I opened the link with no fear of acquiring any malware, trojan or
whatever! I use Linux, I don't fear it at all! :)
On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 7:06 AM, yuri <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9 January 2012 21:17, taliesin the storyteller wrote:
> > If you've run anti-whatever programs and this still happens, it's time
> for
> > a reinstall. Put down on paper the password/usernames you use, put
> > images and documents on a cd, and reformat the hard disk. Then do a
> > reinstall.
>
> And if you're going to reinstall, now's a good time to investigate
> your options regarding operating systems.
>
> Microsoft is no longer the only game in town.
>
> Yuri
>
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
8a. Re: <No subject>
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 6:31 pm ((PST))
Spam? FWIW, I got an e-mail with http://webdevelopment1.home.pl/ava.php
(don't click!) as the sole content to an old email address of mine from
Aidan's address, too. So, might be that either his computer is infected by
malware or
his account was hacked.
Carsten
On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 17:46:13 -0800, Aidan Grey <[email protected]> wrote:
> http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
8b. Re: <No subject>
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 6:36 pm ((PST))
Aidan's address also sent a spam message to Conlang at the end of last year. I
told him via Facebook, and he said he knew about it and changed his password.
I'm guessing there's probably some sort of keylogger (or something similar?) on
his computer, so that his account's been compromised again.
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
On Jan 8, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Carsten Becker wrote:
> Spam? FWIW, I got an e-mail with http://webdevelopment1.home.pl/ava.php
> (don't click!) as the sole content to an old email address of mine from
> Aidan's address, too. So, might be that either his computer is infected by
> malware or
> his account was hacked.
>
> Carsten
>
>
> On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 17:46:13 -0800, Aidan Grey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
8c. Re: <No subject>
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 7:53 pm ((PST))
People don't install keyloggers to steal passwords just to send spam.
That takes way more effort than your average spammer is willing to put
in. It's more likely that his email client is infected with a virus
that causes it to send spam to everyone on his address book.
On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 6:35 PM, David Peterson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Aidan's address also sent a spam message to Conlang at the end of last year.
> I told him via Facebook, and he said he knew about it and changed his
> password. I'm guessing there's probably some sort of keylogger (or something
> similar?) on his computer, so that his account's been compromised again.
>
> David Peterson
> LCS President
> [email protected]
> www.conlang.org
>
> On Jan 8, 2012, at 6:31 PM, Carsten Becker wrote:
>
>> Spam? FWIW, I got an e-mail with http://webdevelopment1.home.pl/ava.php
>> (don't click!) as the sole content to an old email address of mine from
>> Aidan's address, too. So, might be that either his computer is infected by
>> malware or
>> his account was hacked.
>>
>> Carsten
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 8 Jan 2012 17:46:13 -0800, Aidan Grey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.lomejordelima.com/ava.php
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
8d. Re: <No subject>
Posted by: "Aidan Grey" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 8, 2012 9:58 pm ((PST))
If my client (yahoo web-based is infected), then everyone would be infected,
no? Something else is happening, I think - I've just been hacked... again.
Sorry everyone.
>________________________________
> From: Garth Wallace <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected]
>Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2012 8:53 PM
>Subject: Re: <No subject>
>
>People don't install keyloggers to steal passwords just to send spam.
>That takes way more effort than your average spammer is willing to put
>in. It's more likely that his email client is infected with a virus
>that causes it to send spam to everyone on his address book.
>
>On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 6:35 PM, David Peterson <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Aidan's address also sent a spam message to Conlang at the end of last year.
>> I told him via Facebook, and he said he knew about it and changed his
>> password. I'm guessing there's probably some sort of keylogger (or something
>> similar?) on his computer, so that his account's been compromised again.
>>
>
Messages in this topic (4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/
<*> Your email settings:
Digest Email | Traditional
<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/conlang/join
(Yahoo! ID required)
<*> To change settings via email:
[email protected]
[email protected]
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
