There are 19 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Roman Rausch
1b. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Gary Shannon
1c. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Adam Walker
1d. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Adam Walker
1e. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Sam Stutter
1f. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Matthew Boutilier
1g. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: David McCann
1h. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Adam Walker
1i. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Padraic Brown
1j. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Roger Mills
1k. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Jim Henry
1l. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
From: Herman Miller
2a. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
From: Roger Mills
2b. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
From: Charlie Brickner
2c. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
From: Garth Wallace
2d. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
From: MorphemeAddict
2e. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
From: MorphemeAddict
3a. Re: A Drama of Conlangs
From: Douglas Koller
4.1. Re: Curious verb construction
From: Douglas Koller
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Roman Rausch" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:52 am ((PST))
>I've just consulted the SODE (2002). The introduction to self- only
>mentions it as a prefix to nouns and adjectives: self-advocacy,
>self-cleaning, self-destroyed. The listed examples do include a
>verb: self-actualise as a term in psychology. To me such verbs sound
>like un-English jargon created by those lacking in Sprachgefühl.
So it seems to me that what happens is:
verb: 'regulate itself'
-> derived noun: 'self-regulation'
-> derived verb prone to analogy influence from the original verb:
'self-regulate (itself)'
The second step makes sense to me when the derived noun acquires a new or
restricted meaning. For example, if by 'self-destruction' one means the
particular mechanism in military devices, then by 'self-destruct' one would
mean the activation of that mechanism; while 'destruct itself' retains a
more general sense.
Messages in this topic (18)
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1b. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:32 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 1:18 AM, David McCann <[email protected]> wrote:
> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
> Team". Since when has English put its adjectives after the noun? And
> what's wrong with a normal adjective like "British"?
In my 65 years of playing with languages I've noticed that there are
only two things that are always and universally the same, regardless
of the language and regardless of the era: 1) Languages are always
changing. 2) There are always those who dislike and resist those
changes.
About English in particular I've also noticed that usage fads come and
go rather quickly. The best policy seems to be simply to ignore them
and wait for them to go away, For those usage fads that don't go away
quickly, see numbers 1 and 2 above.
--gary
Messages in this topic (18)
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1c. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:48 am ((PST))
This has been rampant in Texas for at least a decade. The self-verb itself
construction is used all the time, even by tv news anchors and such. I
gave up on much more than occasionally ridiculing the usage as silly and
redundant long ago. When I taught, I would make it as an error, but
students rarely seemed to understand why it was silly, even after
explination that they were saying the same thing twice. The usual reaction
was something akin to "So?"
Adam
On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 8:38 PM, Daniel Bowman <[email protected]>wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> I break a long silence to field an observation I've been making recently.
> Certain reflexive verbs are being overcompensated for in speech. I've
> heard
> people at work do this for a while, but what finally inspired me to point
> it
> out to the list is when my wife said the following:
>
> "He self-regulated himself."
>
> To my grammatical sense, the sentence would normally be "He
> self-regulated."
> However, I believe that certain verbs are getting the prefix "self" more
> and more often, to the point that speakers are considering it as part of
> the
> verb and not as a reflexive subject. So, when my wife said "He
> self-regulated himself", she treated "self-regulated" as a monadic verb.
>
> It has definitely caught on in the last year, because I have not heard it
> before (and I would have remembered it if I had). It seems to be in the
> same class of prescriptive "mistakes" as calling an ATM an "ATM Machine" (I
> do that all the time).
>
> I propose the term "overreflexive" for this phenomenon.
>
> Anyone else noticed this? I live in Massachusetts, USA, so I'm curious to
> know if this is a local phenomenon or if it is more widespread.
>
> Danny
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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1d. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:52 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:18 AM, David McCann <[email protected]>wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:52:14 -0800
> Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > --- On Tue, 1/24/12, Daniel Bowman <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > "He self-regulated himself."
> > > To my grammatical sense, the sentence would normally be "He
> > > self-regulated."
>
> > Interesting. For me, it should be "he regulated himself". Because
> > self- regulating, like self-cleaning, etc aren't really verbs. For
> > me, there's no "the oven self-cleaned". The oven cleaned itself.
>
> I've just consulted the SODE (2002). The introduction to self- only
> mentions it as a prefix to nouns and adjectives: self-advocacy,
> self-cleaning, self-destroyed. The listed examples do include a
> verb: self-actualise as a term in psychology. To me such verbs sound
> like un-English jargon created by those lacking in Sprachgefühl.
>
>
Self-destruct has been used as a verb for decades. I can't say for sure
how long other self-verbs have been around but that one's been in use for
at least half a century. SODE missed a bit, I'd say.
> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
> Team". Since when has English put its adjectives after the noun? And
> what's wrong with a normal adjective like "British"?
>
That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
spread, at least temporarily.
Adam
Messages in this topic (18)
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1e. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:05 am ((PST))
Isn't there the romance association of "Ark Royal" and the suggestion of a
colon "Team: GB" which sounds more impressive?
Also, "The British Team" may descend into the politics of "Britain" versus
"Great Britain".
Also been used poetically, etc for hundreds of years. "Lake blue" places the
emphasis more on "blue" than with "blue lake", as well as helping when it comes
to rhyme. :)
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na il cu barri"
On 25 Jan 2012, at 16:52, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:18 AM, David McCann <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:52:14 -0800
>> Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> --- On Tue, 1/24/12, Daniel Bowman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "He self-regulated himself."
>>>> To my grammatical sense, the sentence would normally be "He
>>>> self-regulated."
>>
>>> Interesting. For me, it should be "he regulated himself". Because
>>> self- regulating, like self-cleaning, etc aren't really verbs. For
>>> me, there's no "the oven self-cleaned". The oven cleaned itself.
>>
>> I've just consulted the SODE (2002). The introduction to self- only
>> mentions it as a prefix to nouns and adjectives: self-advocacy,
>> self-cleaning, self-destroyed. The listed examples do include a
>> verb: self-actualise as a term in psychology. To me such verbs sound
>> like un-English jargon created by those lacking in Sprachgefühl.
>>
>>
> Self-destruct has been used as a verb for decades. I can't say for sure
> how long other self-verbs have been around but that one's been in use for
> at least half a century. SODE missed a bit, I'd say.
>
>
>
>> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
>> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
>> Team". Since when has English put its adjectives after the noun? And
>> what's wrong with a normal adjective like "British"?
>>
>
> That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> spread, at least temporarily.
>
> Adam
Messages in this topic (18)
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1f. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Matthew Boutilier" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:11 am ((PST))
>
> That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> spread, at least temporarily.
>
the first exception that comes to mind is "team america: world police"
(2004 movie). but don't the olympics feature "team canada," etc.? and
there was a game show in the 90s, whose details i forget, always featuring
"team red" and "team blue."
parallel structures are "club x," "mount x." may be a europeanism, coming
ultimately from french perhaps, since the construction does not strike me
as intrinsically germanic, but it at least predates the twilight
books/movies.
matt
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> Isn't there the romance association of "Ark Royal" and the suggestion of a
> colon "Team: GB" which sounds more impressive?
>
> Also, "The British Team" may descend into the politics of "Britain" versus
> "Great Britain".
>
> Also been used poetically, etc for hundreds of years. "Lake blue" places
> the emphasis more on "blue" than with "blue lake", as well as helping when
> it comes to rhyme. :)
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na il cu barri"
>
> On 25 Jan 2012, at 16:52, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 3:18 AM, David McCann <[email protected]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 18:52:14 -0800
> >> Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> --- On Tue, 1/24/12, Daniel Bowman <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> "He self-regulated himself."
> >>>> To my grammatical sense, the sentence would normally be "He
> >>>> self-regulated."
> >>
> >>> Interesting. For me, it should be "he regulated himself". Because
> >>> self- regulating, like self-cleaning, etc aren't really verbs. For
> >>> me, there's no "the oven self-cleaned". The oven cleaned itself.
> >>
> >> I've just consulted the SODE (2002). The introduction to self- only
> >> mentions it as a prefix to nouns and adjectives: self-advocacy,
> >> self-cleaning, self-destroyed. The listed examples do include a
> >> verb: self-actualise as a term in psychology. To me such verbs sound
> >> like un-English jargon created by those lacking in Sprachgefühl.
> >>
> >>
> > Self-destruct has been used as a verb for decades. I can't say for sure
> > how long other self-verbs have been around but that one's been in use for
> > at least half a century. SODE missed a bit, I'd say.
> >
> >
> >
> >> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
> >> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
> >> Team". Since when has English put its adjectives after the noun? And
> >> what's wrong with a normal adjective like "British"?
> >>
> >
> > That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> > whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> > before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> > spread, at least temporarily.
> >
> > Adam
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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1g. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "David McCann" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:13 am ((PST))
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 05:41:32 -0800
Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> Team GB will become ingrained in your subconscious and you will soon
> be waving a little made-in-China plastic UK flag, will find a Pride
> the Lion mascot on your desk and you'll be queuing up for tickets to
> see the badminton matches. Corpspeak shall have won the day! Huzzah!
Not me! It's bad enough that I've paid £75 so far in London Council Tax
for the whole sorry circus. My only participation will be cursing the
tourists cluttering the city. Bah! Humbug!
Messages in this topic (18)
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1h. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:20 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:11 AM, Matthew Boutilier
<[email protected]>wrote:
> >
> > That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> > whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> > before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> > spread, at least temporarily.
> >
>
> the first exception that comes to mind is "team america: world police"
> (2004 movie). but don't the olympics feature "team canada," etc.? and
> there was a game show in the 90s, whose details i forget, always featuring
> "team red" and "team blue."
>
>
I had forgotten that ghastly thing, but as you say, it is older than Twerds.
> parallel structures are "club x," "mount x."
Yes, clubs are VERY frequently named like that. And mountains are commonly
named Mt. St. Helens/Rushmore/etc.
> may be a europeanism, coming
> ultimately from french perhaps, since the construction does not strike me
> as intrinsically germanic, but it at least predates the twilight
> books/movies.
>
> matt
>
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Isn't there the romance association of "Ark Royal" and the suggestion of
> a
> > colon "Team: GB" which sounds more impressive?
>
And a host of legal/governmental terms like Attorney General/Princess
Royal/etc.
> >
> > Also, "The British Team" may descend into the politics of "Britain"
> versus
> > "Great Britain".
> >
> > Also been used poetically, etc for hundreds of years. "Lake blue" places
> > the emphasis more on "blue" than with "blue lake", as well as helping
> when
> > it comes to rhyme. :)
> >
> > Sam Stutter
>
I stand corrected.
Adam
Messages in this topic (18)
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1i. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:46 am ((PST))
--- On Wed, 1/25/12, David McCann <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Team GB will become ingrained in your subconscious and you will soon
> > be waving a little made-in-China plastic UK flag, will find a Pride
> > the Lion mascot on your desk and you'll be queuing up for tickets to
> > see the badminton matches. Corpspeak shall have won the day! Huzzah!
>
> Not me! It's bad enough that I've paid £75 so far in London Council Tax
> for the whole sorry circus. My only participation will be cursing the
> tourists cluttering the city. Bah! Humbug!
Ha! Well, you still have 184 days in which to become infected with Team GB
fever!
TEAM GB!! TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!TEAM GB!!
I expect even Scrooge McCann will turn an eleventh hour conversion and it
will be him shouting to the boy in the lane "Oh, I say, dear boy, you
know that huge plush Pride the Lion down at Harvey Nichols..."
Indeed, all shall be ensnared within the web before long!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (18)
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1j. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:47 am ((PST))
From: Matthew Boutilier <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2012 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
>
> That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> spread, at least temporarily.
>
the first exception that comes to mind is "team america: world police"
(2004 movie). but don't the olympics feature "team canada," etc.? and
there was a game show in the 90s, whose details i forget, always featuring
"team red" and "team blue."
=============================
We've been hearing Team X for years, usually with respect to sports and maybe
esp. the Olympics. Also in the worlds of motorcylce racing, Team Honda, Team
Yamaha etc. have been around for a long time.
Messages in this topic (18)
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1k. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Jim Henry" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:26 am ((PST))
On 1/25/12, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
>> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
> That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
I've seen similar "Team X" usage in connection with amateur sporting
events which raise money for some nonprofit organization. I don't
remember how long ago, but probably longer ago than the 2004 "Team
America" movie.
--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
Messages in this topic (18)
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1l. Re: YAEUT: Overreflexivity
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:28 pm ((PST))
On 1/25/2012 11:52 AM, Adam Walker wrote:
>> OT. Another example of this sort of thing is the creation of
>> organisational titles like "Team GB" instead of "The British Olympic
>> Team". Since when has English put its adjectives after the noun? And
>> what's wrong with a normal adjective like "British"?
>>
>
> That's Twilight-speak. At least I associate the Team X phenom with the
> whole Team Edward/Team Jacob blah-blah. I don't recall ever hearing it
> before that. Teenage popculture is invasive and almost guaranteed to
> spread, at least temporarily.
>
> Adam
Pokémon usage predates Twilight. Team Rocket, Team Magma, Team Aqua,
Team Galactic, Team Plasma. Wikipedia says Twilight (the novel) was
published in 2005, but the first three generations of Pokémon games were
out before 2005. I wonder if those Twilight fans could have picked up
the usage from Pokémon? Pokémon games were translated from Japanese;
does Japanese put the word "team" first in cases like this or could
there have been an earlier English usage that the Japanese translators
were imitating?
Messages in this topic (18)
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2a. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:18 pm ((PST))
As I mentioned, I'm not familiar with this particular series. However, years
ago when I went to S.America, I had a variety of guidebooks (those published in
England were the best) including some cheap paperbacks on various countries.
The one for Chile recommended a popular snack item-- little sausages wrapped in
pastry dough-- which it said were called "Bien esas" which it said meant "you
eat well". BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ wrong!! (esas is not a Spanish/Chilean verb
form........). They were in fact "vienesas" 'Viennese [sausages]'. From there,
grew an increasing distrust of cheap guidebooks aimed a impecunious hippie
wanderers............
Messages in this topic (12)
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2b. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:50 pm ((PST))
On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:26:37 +0000, Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Just been skimming through Lonely Planet guides on Amazon. 2 things spring
to mind:
>
>1) does anyone know what gets covered in the "Language" section? I've only
managed to scrape a couple of pages from the Cuba edition. Which makes for
a good basic level Conlang test: can it state "I have altitude sickness"
and "how long can I park here?". I'm thinking of using this as a basis for a
short and friendly phrase book.
>
I own a number of "guide books" that I inherited from my father. They were
published by the War Department c. 1943. Besides standard phrases such
as "Good morning," "What is your name?", "Are you hungry?", etc., there are
many other phrases which every well-rounded guide book should have.
Are you a bombardier, gunner, parachutist, rifleman?
How many men in your unit?
Where's the airfield?
What color were their uniforms?
How many machine guns are there?
Have the troops been laying mines?
I think you get the drift.
I have them in the following languages: Russian (3), Thai, Swedish,
Portuguese, Norwegian, Greek, Turkish, Malay, Japanese, Italian (3),
Hindustani, French (3), Burmese, and North African Arabic.
I'm gradually cleaning out my library. If any of you are interested in these
guidebooks, contact me offline. I'd be glad to send them to you merely for
the cost of postage.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (12)
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2c. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:18 pm ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Charlie Brickner
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:26:37 +0000, Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Just been skimming through Lonely Planet guides on Amazon. 2 things spring
> to mind:
>>
>>1) does anyone know what gets covered in the "Language" section? I've only
> managed to scrape a couple of pages from the Cuba edition. Which makes for
> a good basic level Conlang test: can it state "I have altitude sickness"
> and "how long can I park here?". I'm thinking of using this as a basis for a
> short and friendly phrase book.
>>
>
> I own a number of "guide books" that I inherited from my father. They were
> published by the War Department c. 1943. Besides standard phrases such
> as "Good morning," "What is your name?", "Are you hungry?", etc., there are
> many other phrases which every well-rounded guide book should have.
>
> Are you a bombardier, gunner, parachutist, rifleman?
> How many men in your unit?
> Where's the airfield?
> What color were their uniforms?
> How many machine guns are there?
> Have the troops been laying mines?
>
> I think you get the drift.
>
> I have them in the following languages: Russian (3), Thai, Swedish,
> Portuguese, Norwegian, Greek, Turkish, Malay, Japanese, Italian (3),
> Hindustani, French (3), Burmese, and North African Arabic.
>
> I'm gradually cleaning out my library. If any of you are interested in these
> guidebooks, contact me offline. I'd be glad to send them to you merely for
> the cost of postage.
Heh, my dad learned Russian at the Defense Language Institute. He
likes to say he had the vocabulary of a four-year-old Major General.
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:26 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Charlie Brickner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:26:37 +0000, Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Just been skimming through Lonely Planet guides on Amazon. 2 things
> spring
> > to mind:
> >>
> >>1) does anyone know what gets covered in the "Language" section? I've
> only
> > managed to scrape a couple of pages from the Cuba edition. Which makes
> for
> > a good basic level Conlang test: can it state "I have altitude sickness"
> > and "how long can I park here?". I'm thinking of using this as a basis
> for a
> > short and friendly phrase book.
> >>
> >
> > I own a number of "guide books" that I inherited from my father. They
> were
> > published by the War Department c. 1943. Besides standard phrases such
> > as "Good morning," "What is your name?", "Are you hungry?", etc., there
> are
> > many other phrases which every well-rounded guide book should have.
> >
> > Are you a bombardier, gunner, parachutist, rifleman?
> > How many men in your unit?
> > Where's the airfield?
> > What color were their uniforms?
> > How many machine guns are there?
> > Have the troops been laying mines?
> >
> > I think you get the drift.
> >
> > I have them in the following languages: Russian (3), Thai, Swedish,
> > Portuguese, Norwegian, Greek, Turkish, Malay, Japanese, Italian (3),
> > Hindustani, French (3), Burmese, and North African Arabic.
> >
> > I'm gradually cleaning out my library. If any of you are interested in
> these
> > guidebooks, contact me offline. I'd be glad to send them to you merely
> for
> > the cost of postage.
>
> Heh, my dad learned Russian at the Defense Language Institute. He
> likes to say he had the vocabulary of a four-year-old Major General.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
________________________________________________________________________
2e. Re: Lonely Planet Guides
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:27 am ((PST))
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 12:50 PM, Charlie Brickner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 23:26:37 +0000, Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>Just been skimming through Lonely Planet guides on Amazon. 2 things
> spring
> > to mind:
> >>
> >>1) does anyone know what gets covered in the "Language" section? I've
> only
> > managed to scrape a couple of pages from the Cuba edition. Which makes
> for
> > a good basic level Conlang test: can it state "I have altitude sickness"
> > and "how long can I park here?". I'm thinking of using this as a basis
> for a
> > short and friendly phrase book.
> >>
> >
> > I own a number of "guide books" that I inherited from my father. They
> were
> > published by the War Department c. 1943. Besides standard phrases such
> > as "Good morning," "What is your name?", "Are you hungry?", etc., there
> are
> > many other phrases which every well-rounded guide book should have.
> >
> > Are you a bombardier, gunner, parachutist, rifleman?
> > How many men in your unit?
> > Where's the airfield?
> > What color were their uniforms?
> > How many machine guns are there?
> > Have the troops been laying mines?
> >
> > I think you get the drift.
> >
> > I have them in the following languages: Russian (3), Thai, Swedish,
> > Portuguese, Norwegian, Greek, Turkish, Malay, Japanese, Italian (3),
> > Hindustani, French (3), Burmese, and North African Arabic.
> >
> > I'm gradually cleaning out my library. If any of you are interested in
> these
> > guidebooks, contact me offline. I'd be glad to send them to you merely
> for
> > the cost of postage.
>
> Heh, my dad learned Russian at the Defense Language Institute. He
> likes to say he had the vocabulary of a four-year-old Major General.
>
I first (and third) learned Russian at DLI too.
stevo
Messages in this topic (12)
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3a. Re: A Drama of Conlangs
Posted by: "Douglas Koller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 2:28 pm ((PST))
> Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 08:57:02 +0100
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: A Drama of Conlangs
> To: [email protected]
> On 23 January 2012 01:27, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > K.I.S.S. You've got an hour and 8 characters tops for a full play. One act
> > I'd say 30 minutes and 5 characters. If it's sectarian conflict you're
> > looking at, that's 3 conlangs tops.
> Huh? I have no issue with the rest of this post, but as amateur director,
> actor, and theatre audience, I can tell you those time durations are
> nonsense. An audience can easily sit through a 50-min one act play, and two
> hours (including break) for a full play. Anything shorter is a *sketch*,
> not a play!
> If people can sit through a one-and-a-half-hour movie without breaks, they
> can easily sit through a slightly longer play with breaks. 50 minutes is a
> perfectly normal time for a one-act play. Or have American audiences such a
> short attention span? I'm sorry, what were we talking about? Kou
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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4.1. Re: Curious verb construction
Posted by: "Douglas Koller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Jan 25, 2012 5:42 pm ((PST))
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2012 14:50:30 -0800
> From: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Curious verb construction
> To: [email protected]
> --- On Tue, 1/24/12, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Is there any particular reason why
> > the imperative can't be used with the first and third
> > persons?
> Um. No. You can give yourself an order anytime you like! You can make it
> as nice and subjunctive as you please or as baldly imerpative as you need!
> In Géarthnuns, the imperative forms are used in the first, second, and third
> persons when dealing with indirect commands. So "(Öçek la) chí sörelsít
> hüshafözh.", "Sweep the floor." (öçek - you, nom./aff.; la - aux.-pres;' chí
> - the; sörelsít - floor, acc./aff.; hüshafözh - sweep, imperative). But/and:
> "Söb lé, gü sí lé chí sörelsít hüshafözh sho, rönjöth.", "He told me to sweep
> the floor." (söb - he, nom.; lé - past; gü, sí - I, nom.; lé - past; chí -
> the; sörelsít - floor, acc.; hüshafözh - sweep, imp.; sho; rönjöth - tell,
> citation form). But that's not quite what you were talking about, is it?
> Then you run to the hortative for those "Oh, that I might sweep the floor."
> sentiments. ("Sí la chí sörelsít shaför.") Jussives, too. "Let them sweep the
> floor!" ("Rheth la chí sörelsít shaför!"). When used in the second person, it
> becomes an imperative not aimed at anyone in particular. "Chö kfalöbsöt chau
> maloshöthalörsauv, öçek la cha péfuntansat rhagaçon." "When alighting from
> the bus, please remember your umbrella." On a traffic sign, the hortative
> "íeíepöl", "stop" is considered the appropriate way to tell a driver to hit
> the brakes, as opposed to the jarringly more direct "hühíepöl!" (compare and
> contrast: Japanese goes for "tomare!" as opposed to "tomatte kudasai").
> Recipe books, too. Kou
Messages in this topic (40)
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