There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
From: Charlie Brickner
1b. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
From: Padraic Brown
1c. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
From: Padraic Brown
1d. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
From: David Peterson
1e. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
From: Roger Mills
2a. Madeline Palmer's Draconic Language (Fiat Lingua)
From: David Peterson
2b. Re: Madeline Palmer's Draconic Language (Fiat Lingua)
From: Ben Scerri
3a. Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3b. Re: Case Creation
From: Garth Wallace
3c. Re: Case Creation
From: George Corley
3d. Re: Case Creation
From: Ph. D.
3e. Re: Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3f. Re: Case Creation
From: Garth Wallace
3g. Re: Case Creation
From: Alex Bicksler
3h. Re: Case Creation
From: George Corley
3i. Re: Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3j. Re: Case Creation
From: Patrick Dunn
3k. Re: Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3l. Re: Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3m. Re: Case Creation
From: Петр Рихардович
3n. Re: Case Creation
From: Петр Рихардович
3o. Re: Case Creation
From: Matthew Turnbull
3p. Re: Case Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
3q. Re: Case Creation
From: Петр Рихардович
3r. Re: Case Creation
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
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1a. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 12:48 pm ((PST))
On Sun, 29 Jan 2012 15:05:34 -0800, David Peterson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>And, of course, if there are any other ideas, I'd love to hear them! I went to
look at my Latin dictionary for inspiration, but in Latin it seems the stem is
always separable from the ending (nothing like goose~geese from English).
Also, in case someone thinks of it, I didn't want to use the stem as the
citation form, as the stem itself isn't ever used on its own.
>
I use the format of the Cassell�s dictionaries (Latin, German, French, Spanish,
Italian) that I own. When I began the project many years ago, that�s the only
way I knew how to do it. It has served me well. Each of the lemmata is
numbered. I also give an example of an IE language word derived from it,
some real, some fabricated. The Senjecan words are in bold print and the
parts of speech (noun, adj., etc.) are in italics just as they are in the
dictionaries. For ease of scanning the text, I've colored these latter in blue.
a040 amv�r-os, bucket, pail, tub. �p��los, bucket- ful. -(�r)��os, noria. (>
Gk. ἀμφορεύς, amphora)
a078 as�r-us, prince. -is, adj. princely. ��rg=a, t.v. kill the prince. =as,
regicide [act]. =us, regicide [agent]. ���mh=as, principality. =os, realm. (>
Mord. azor, mister)
b028 b�sl-os, gall, bile. -�k�stos, gall bladder. -�s��ris, bitter as gall.
-is, adj.
bilary, bilious. (> OLat. bis(t)lis, Lat. bīlis, bile)
Charlie
Messages in this topic (11)
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1b. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 3:49 pm ((PST))
--- On Sun, 1/29/12, David Peterson <[email protected]> wrote:
> And, of course, if there are any other ideas, I'd love to
> hear them! I went to look at my Latin dictionary for
> inspiration, but in Latin it seems the stem is always
> separable from the ending (nothing like goose~geese from
> English).
Latin has plenty of ablaut! For example, the stem changing third
conjugation verbs: facio/feci; ago/egi; fundo/fu:di. There are also
examples akin to our sing/song ablaut: donum/dare; genus/gignere.
Padraic
>
> David Peterson
> LCS President
> [email protected]
> www.conlang.org
>
Messages in this topic (11)
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1c. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 5:45 pm ((PST))
--- On Wed, 2/1/12, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> > And, of course, if there are any other ideas, I'd love
> to
> > hear them! I went to look at my Latin dictionary for
> > inspiration, but in Latin it seems the stem is always
> > separable from the ending (nothing like goose~geese
> from
> > English).
>
> Latin has plenty of ablaut! For example, the stem changing
> third
> conjugation verbs: facio/feci; ago/egi; fundo/fu:di. There
> are also
> examples akin to our sing/song ablaut: donum/dare;
> genus/gignere.
Now that I think on it, these aren't the same, are they. You mention
goose/geese, which is i-umlaut (*gansiz or similar), not ablaut. I don't
think Latin has any umlaut forms!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (11)
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1d. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:16 pm ((PST))
On Feb 1, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Padraic Brown wrote:
>> Latin has plenty of ablaut! For example, the stem changing
>> third
>> conjugation verbs: facio/feci; ago/egi; fundo/fu:di. There
>> are also
>> examples akin to our sing/song ablaut: donum/dare;
>> genus/gignere.
>
> Now that I think on it, these aren't the same, are they. You mention
> goose/geese, which is i-umlaut (*gansiz or similar), not ablaut. I don't
> think Latin has any umlaut forms!
I suppose by ablaut what I meant was apophony, but indeed, Latin does have some
of the forms. Let's see what my dictionary does with them...
faciō facere fēcī factus (faxim = fēcerim; faxō = fēcerō)...
All of that before you even get the part of speech! Now for a more or less
regular verb:
existim·ō -āre -āvī -ātus...
So what it looks like is if there's a uniquely identifiable stem in the first
person present tense form of the verb, it's separated from the conjugation with
a raised dot. After that, the principle parts are given as suffixes (since they
attach directly to the previously indicated stem). If, however, there isn't a
uniquely identifiable stem, there is no raised dot, and the full form for each
of the principle parts is listed.
That's not too bad, actually. I think it's kind of a midway point between
listing everything and listing what's necessary (after all, they could have
given the "faciō" treatment to *every* single verb). And even though there is
an identifiable stem in "faciō" (fac-), since it can't be used with *every* one
of the principle parts, it's treated, basically, as if it featured some sort of
stem-internal irregularity (even though with faciō, it would seem that fēcī is
the odd duck).
Well, that's what I get for not looking at the verbs (I had nouns on the
brain). Incidentally, with nouns it's the nom. and then gen. singular (same
rule for the raised dot applies). I may change my system to fall in line with
this; I rather like it.
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (11)
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1e. Re: Dictionary Presentation Question
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 8:30 pm ((PST))
From: David Peterson <[email protected]>
That's not too bad, actually. I think it's kind of a midway point between
listing everything and listing what's necessary (after all, they could have
given the "faciō" treatment to *every* single verb). And even though there is
an identifiable stem in "faciō" (fac-), since it can't be used with *every* one
of the principle parts, it's treated, basically, as if it featured some sort of
stem-internal irregularity (even though with faciō, it would seem that fēcī is
the odd duck).
=====================================================
Some verbs have combining forms where a tonic /a/ changes to /i/ (I think a
holdover of IE *schwa?)--- capio > -cip- as in recipio receptum. excipio
exceptum; facio > -fic- in many, conficio confectum, sufficio, deficio defectum
etc. There may be others, and I don't recall offhand if other tonic vowels
undergo changes............but this I guess falls under the apophony class.
Messages in this topic (11)
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2a. Madeline Palmer's Draconic Language (Fiat Lingua)
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 1:59 pm ((PST))
I wanted to take a moment to let everyone know about an incredible find that
basically dropped into our laps at Fiat Lingua.
Last November, we got an e-mail at [email protected] from Madeline Palmer. She
said she didn't know, but thought we might be interested in the attached file
for our website. The title of the e-mail was "Draconic Language". Initially, I
dismissed it�in fact, I'll admit I didn't even look at it (I thought it was an
"analysis" of the Dragon language from Skyrim), and may not have if Don Boozer
hadn't alerted me and said it was worth a look.
And so I gave it a look. The document she sent to us was a *ONE HUNDRED AND
SEVENTY page grammar and lexicon* of a language she called Sr�naw�sin�a
language she's been working on for about twenty years. And the form of the
grammar was rather unique. Rather than being a simple description, the language
is presented as a linguistics graduate student's notes on a document she found
in the old dissertation file of the linguistics department at NYU. The entire
work is a grammar presented as a work of fiction.
Over the coming months, we're going to publish the full grammar of Sr�naw�sin
at Fiat Lingua, the first installment of which has gone up today [1]. As far as
I know, Madeline hasn't had any connection to any of the conlanging
communities, so this language has really kind of dropped out of the sky. I
invite you to give it a look (and hopefully I can encourage Madeline to join
the Conlang list).
Oh, and a Fiat Lingua-related note: While the Sr�naw�sin grammar will have
about eight or nine installments, we will publish articles in the interim if we
feel they're timely, or just to break things up a bit.
[1] http://fiatlingua.org/?p=125
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
Messages in this topic (2)
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2b. Re: Madeline Palmer's Draconic Language (Fiat Lingua)
Posted by: "Ben Scerri" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:43 pm ((PST))
Wow... That is beautiful. I am INCREDIBLY excited to see the rest!
Further, this is very much making me want to write a similar text for
Fengwë and the Vendri. As a sort of anthropological study of the people.
Thank you so much for this, and please do all you can to get Madeline to
join us! I would love to talk to her about her work...
On 2 February 2012 08:59, David Peterson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wanted to take a moment to let everyone know about an incredible find
> that basically dropped into our laps at Fiat Lingua.
>
> Last November, we got an e-mail at [email protected] from Madeline Palmer.
> She said she didn't know, but thought we might be interested in the
> attached file for our website. The title of the e-mail was "Draconic
> Language". Initially, I dismissed it—in fact, I'll admit I didn't even look
> at it (I thought it was an "analysis" of the Dragon language from Skyrim),
> and may not have if Don Boozer hadn't alerted me and said it was worth a
> look.
>
> And so I gave it a look. The document she sent to us was a *ONE HUNDRED
> AND SEVENTY page grammar and lexicon* of a language she called Srínawésin—a
> language she's been working on for about twenty years. And the form of the
> grammar was rather unique. Rather than being a simple description, the
> language is presented as a linguistics graduate student's notes on a
> document she found in the old dissertation file of the linguistics
> department at NYU. The entire work is a grammar presented as a work of
> fiction.
>
> Over the coming months, we're going to publish the full grammar of
> Srínawésin at Fiat Lingua, the first installment of which has gone up today
> [1]. As far as I know, Madeline hasn't had any connection to any of the
> conlanging communities, so this language has really kind of dropped out of
> the sky. I invite you to give it a look (and hopefully I can encourage
> Madeline to join the Conlang list).
>
> Oh, and a Fiat Lingua-related note: While the Srínawésin grammar will have
> about eight or nine installments, we will publish articles in the interim
> if we feel they're timely, or just to break things up a bit.
>
> [1] http://fiatlingua.org/?p=125
>
> David Peterson
> LCS President
> [email protected]
> www.conlang.org
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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3a. Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:52 pm ((PST))
Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3b. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 6:58 pm ((PST))
What do you mean by an audio case?
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3c. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:04 pm ((PST))
Wait -- do you mean case as in upper/lower case? I'm just confirming
because I think most people will read the subject line and think something
entirely unrelated.
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 9:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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3d. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:06 pm ((PST))
Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
How would that be used? Could you give an example?
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (18)
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3e. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:06 pm ((PST))
A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm
plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about audio
cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: Case Creation
> What do you mean by an audio case?
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
>> Nicole Andrews
>>
>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>> Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3f. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:09 pm ((PST))
They're all spoken. If it wasn't spoken it wouldn't be in the language.
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[email protected]> wrote:
> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm
> plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about audio
> cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
>
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>
>
>
>> What do you mean by an audio case?
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>
>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>> Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3g. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Alex Bicksler" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:32 pm ((PST))
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Garth Wallace <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> They're all spoken. If it wasn't spoken it wouldn't be in the language.
IIRC, 他 and 她 are pronounced identically in Mandarin, and they're both
third person pronouns. But there's a gender distinction in the written
language. Hypothetically something similar could be done with case,
no? Imagine adding noun class to English by putting <♂> after the
written form of some words, and <♀> after others.
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm plan
> to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about audio cases.
> Maybe I should call it a tone case.
What author are you talking about? I think I missed the part where you
mentioned the book.
Messages in this topic (18)
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3h. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 7:42 pm ((PST))
>IIRC, 他 and 她 are pronounced identically in Mandarin, and they're both
third person pronouns. But there's a gender distinction in the written
language. Hypothetically something similar could be done with case,
no? Imagine adding noun class to English by putting <♂> after the
written form of some words, and <♀> after others.
I have always contended that 他，她，它 and 祂 are pronounced the same because
they are the same damn word with four different characters. This jives
with my (admittedly unscientific) observation that Chinese speakers tend to
confuse "he" and "she" in English.
>> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm
plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about audio
cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
>What author are you talking about? I think I missed the part where
you mentioned the book.
I don't think it was mentioned. I'm still confused as to whether we are
talking about grammatical case or graphical case -- which affects the
advice I would give very greatly.
Messages in this topic (18)
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3i. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:18 pm ((PST))
Sorryy, I didn't clarify. Maybe I should call them tonal or emotional cases.
Kind of similar to us having subjunctive mood cases.
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:09 PM
Subject: Re: Case Creation
> They're all spoken. If it wasn't spoken it wouldn't be in the language.
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm
>> plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about
>> audio
>> cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
>>
>> Nicole Andrews
>>
>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>> Budding novelist
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>>
>>
>>
>>> What do you mean by an audio case?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
>>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>>
>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>>> Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3j. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:20 pm ((PST))
"Case" applies to nouns, while "subjunctive mood" is usually marked on
verbs.
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Sorryy, I didn't clarify. Maybe I should call them tonal or emotional
> cases. Kind of similar to us having subjunctive mood cases.
>
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:09 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>
>
> They're all spoken. If it wasn't spoken it wouldn't be in the language.
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and I'm
>>> plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about
>>> audio
>>> cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
>>>
>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>
>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>> Budding novelist
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you mean by an audio case?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
>>>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>>>
>>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>>>> Budding novelist
>>>>>
>>>>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (18)
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3k. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:41 pm ((PST))
So how about an instructional case? That's a noun and a verb, like Holly has
created an emergency cae, where you promptly know it's some sort of
emergency like "Run quickly!"
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Dunn" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: Case Creation
> "Case" applies to nouns, while "subjunctive mood" is usually marked on
> verbs.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 11:07 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Sorryy, I didn't clarify. Maybe I should call them tonal or emotional
>> cases. Kind of similar to us having subjunctive mood cases.
>>
>> Nicole Andrews
>>
>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>> Budding novelist
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 10:09 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>>
>>
>> They're all spoken. If it wasn't spoken it wouldn't be in the language.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 7:06 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A case that is spoken. I'm reading the chapter on case creation, and
>>>> I'm
>>>> plan to use the five cases the author has created, and wondered about
>>>> audio
>>>> cases. Maybe I should call it a tone case.
>>>>
>>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>>
>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>>> Budding novelist
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garth Wallace" <[email protected]>
>>>> To: <[email protected]>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:58 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: Case Creation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by an audio case?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can a language have an audio case? How would that work?
>>>>>> Nicole Andrews
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pen name Mellissa Green
>>>>>> Budding novelist
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
> --
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
>
Messages in this topic (18)
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3l. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 9:46 pm ((PST))
Do cases have to apply to nouns and verbs? It's another planet. To feel
something is a verb.
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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3m. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Петр Рихардович" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:26 pm ((PST))
On Thursday, 02 February, 2012 09:41:12 you wrote:
> So how about an instructional case? That's a noun and a verb, like Holly
> has created an emergency cae, where you promptly know it's some sort of
> emergency like "Run quickly!"
That's not case, that's an imperative (a grammatical mood, generally a
function of the verb). I recommend
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperative_mood for more information. Of course,
there are different degrees of directives; hortative, imperative, immediate
imperative (which would be used for emergencies or things that must be done
immediately without question), jussive, necessitative, permissive, precative,
and prohibitive.
:Peter
Messages in this topic (18)
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3n. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Петр Рихардович" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:35 pm ((PST))
On Thursday, 02 February, 2012 09:45:58 you wrote:
> Do cases have to apply to nouns and verbs? It's another planet. To feel
> something is a verb.
No, cases only apply to nouns. (Of course, it's possible to construct a
system in which the verb shows the case of the nouns in the sentence,
And of course, you're wrong about feeling being a verb. :) In Russian,
"Мне холодно" (Mne kholodno) is literally "To-me cold". This is actually a
common construction in languages, where feelings and impressions are used with
some form of indirect, dative, or experiential case.
:Peter
Messages in this topic (18)
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3o. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:36 pm ((PST))
Case describes how a noun relates to a verb or preposition more or less.
Perhaps you might read over:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_case
Messages in this topic (18)
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3p. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 10:43 pm ((PST))
How about emotional experiences for experiential cases?
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
----- Original Message -----
From: "Петр Рихардович Кларк" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: Case Creation
> On Thursday, 02 February, 2012 09:45:58 you wrote:
>> Do cases have to apply to nouns and verbs? It's another planet. To feel
>> something is a verb.
> No, cases only apply to nouns. (Of course, it's possible to construct a
> system in which the verb shows the case of the nouns in the sentence,
> And of course, you're wrong about feeling being a verb. :) In Russian,
> "Мне холодно" (Mne kholodno) is literally "To-me cold". This is actually a
> common construction in languages, where feelings and impressions are used
> with
> some form of indirect, dative, or experiential case.
> :Peter
Messages in this topic (18)
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3q. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Петр Рихардович" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 1, 2012 11:58 pm ((PST))
On Thursday, 02 February, 2012 10:42:43 you wrote:
> How about emotional experiences for experiential cases?
Of course. Мне грустно (To-me sad), мне жалко (To-me sorry/pity), мне
скучно (To-me bored). Interestingly enough, positive emotions are generally
more direct in Russian: я счастлив (I'm happy), я рад (I'm glad).
:Peter
Messages in this topic (18)
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3r. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 2, 2012 12:14 am ((PST))
On 2 February 2012 07:42, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> How about emotional experiences for experiential cases?
>
>
Nicole, we are getting confused, because we have no idea what you mean by
"case". Your different posts seem to all use the word "case" with a
different meaning, so we cannot give meaningful advice. Could you just slow
down a bit and *explain* to us what you mean by "case"? And I don't mean
giving us more and more examples, as they are only adding to the confusion.
What I mean is you giving us a *definition* of the word "case" as you are
using it right now. Please tell us what you mean when you use the word
"case", and we will be able to give you meaningful answers that will be
useful to you. Right now all we are doing is grabbing at straws and doing
stabs in the dark because we have no idea what you are talking about. The
word "case" has many different meanings
(http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/caselists *14* definitions!), so
confusion is understandable. Please help us
clear up that confusion!
Thanks in advance!
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (18)
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