There are 14 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
From: Adam Walker
1b. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
From: Eric Christopherson
1c. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
From: Billy JB
2a. Re: No Songs To Sing
From: Ben Scerri
2b. Re: No Songs To Sing
From: Garth Wallace
2c. Re: No Songs To Sing
From: [email protected]
2d. Gnomic Aspect (was: Re: No Songs To Sing)
From: Brian
2e. Re: Gnomic Aspect (was: Re: No Songs To Sing)
From: Patrick Dunn
3a. Re: Endangered Languages
From: Roger Mills
4a. Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
From: A. Mendes
4b. Re: Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
From: John Erickson
4c. Re: Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
From: Alex Fink
5a. Re: Number Creation
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
5b. Re: Number Creation
From: Garth Wallace
Messages
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1a. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:14 am ((PST))
There used to be a company called Audio Forum that stocked manuals
used by the US Foriegn Services to train diplomats. And have you
checked the Peace Corps? They have materials for some obscure langs.
On 2/7/12, Paul Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:04:19 -0500, Paul Bennett
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Also, any information whatsoever about the languages of the Oro River
>> region would be highly useful.
>
> That's the Omo River region, not the Oro River region. Sorry for any
> confusion.
>
>
>
> --
> Paul
>
Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 8:59 pm ((PST))
On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Adam Walker wrote:
> There used to be a company called Audio Forum that stocked manuals
> used by the US Foriegn Services to train diplomats. And have you
> checked the Peace Corps? They have materials for some obscure langs.
I seem to recall there being a web site with PDFs of various US government
teaching materials on languages. I thought I had it bookmarked, but now I can't
find it.
>
> On 2/7/12, Paul Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:04:19 -0500, Paul Bennett
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, any information whatsoever about the languages of the Oro River
>>> region would be highly useful.
>>
>> That's the Omo River region, not the Oro River region. Sorry for any
>> confusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul
>>
Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: NATLANG: Amharic, and Ethiopian local languages
Posted by: "Billy JB" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:46 pm ((PST))
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 5:59 AM, Eric Christopherson <[email protected]>wrote:
> On Feb 7, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Adam Walker wrote:
>
> > There used to be a company called Audio Forum that stocked manuals
> > used by the US Foriegn Services to train diplomats. And have you
> > checked the Peace Corps? They have materials for some obscure langs.
>
> I seem to recall there being a web site with PDFs of various US government
> teaching materials on languages. I thought I had it bookmarked, but now I
> can't find it.
>
> >
> > On 2/7/12, Paul Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 03:04:19 -0500, Paul Bennett
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Also, any information whatsoever about the languages of the Oro River
> >>> region would be highly useful.
> >>
> >> That's the Omo River region, not the Oro River region. Sorry for any
> >> confusion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Paul
> >>
>
After a quick google I found http://famdliflc.lingnet.org/downloads.aspx that
has some PDFs/audio recordings with some vocabulary, and then this
http://fsi-language-courses.org/Content.php?page=Amharic which seems to
contain a (very!) decent PDF or two for a basic course in Amharic.
Hopefully, they'll be of some use.
Information about the Omo river languages were sparse for me in my results,
sorry.
Good luck with learning/volunteering!
Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. Re: No Songs To Sing
Posted by: "Ben Scerri" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:21 pm ((PST))
Well I can't give you an example of the Chinese style thing in my lang as
of yet (as it is still very young), but something along the lines of:
Ha (brain/useless material (this culture does not understand the importance
of the brain))
Me (shallow/of no substance, no worth to be explored)
Ba (harsh)
Ga (100,000/When numbers are placed on things it can sometimes mean
something like "This statement to this degree")
-ar (Eternal Case (actually, if anyone could give me the actual term for a
case that represents that we have been doing something since the beginning
of time, that would be great. Like Habitual, but with a far longer reach,
and one that basically says EVERYONE does this at some point)
= Hamebagar (Hamburger) which, to English ears would sound like a native
trying to say Hamburger, but to a native would be an insult on the food as
a whole: Unimportant-Not worth going into-Harsh-x100,000-For all time!
A clunky example, but it gives the jist of it.
On the wave pattern, here is a very crude joke:
Xho-gdak Rkózu Ger Nòk = The one-handed man counts to 6.
I'll leave you guys to figure out why (shouldn't take long) *shakes head at
self*
On 6 February 2012 18:32, Eugene Oh <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ben, I'm interested in the 4-character method you're using - mind giving
> us an example of how you've adapted it?
>
> Eugene
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 5 Feb 2012, at 22:26, Ben Scerri <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Parallelism works really well for languages high in synonyms. Languages
> >> with a sparse lexicon would simply produce a repetition of lines with
> the
> >> same words:
> >
> > Not necessarily. All you need to do is give several examples of a SIMILAR
> > concept. Therefore, all your language needs is the possibility of
> metaphor
> > or simile, and I can see no reason why any conlang trying to be
> > naturalistic could not fit this need.
> >
> > Artlangs and the like might have a bit more of a problem, but then, not
> all
> > types of poetry and suited to every type of language.
> >
> > In my most recent project (about which I've already mentioned the Wave
> > Pattern), I've borrowed a modern Chinese practice of giving things
> > nicknames of 4 characters (4 syllables). This also exists in lots of old
> > idioms, but the modern version is what intrigues me as they have a trend
> of
> > translating English words into Chinese characters with similar sounds and
> > then turning them into a 4 character nickname based on these sounds.
> > Therefore, those who know the English word have a funnier way of saying
> it
> > (as the combination of the 4 Chinese characters would invariably mean
> > something TOTALLY different in Chinese). Therefore, your language could
> > 'make fun of' or be influenced by an old or revered language (similar to
> > English revering Latin) by having your people write poetry to SOUND like
> > the old language (or the new) whilst using syllables and roots from the
> new
> > (or old) to fit in with the sounds. However, the ACTUAL meaning is
> > completely different. I urge you to try this out, as it makes some very
> > humorous results!
> >
> > On 6 February 2012 02:15, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> --- On Sun, 2/5/12, Charles W Brickner <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> You might also consider parallelism,
> >>> a device used in Hebrew poetry. There
> >>> are several variations. If you are interested I'd be
> >>> glad to tell you of them.
> >>>
> >>> Psalm 37:1-2
> >>> Be not vexed over evildoers,
> >>> Nor jealous of those who do wrong;
> >>> For like grass they quickly wither,
> >>> And like green herbs they wilt.
> >>
> >> Parallelism works really well for languages high in synonyms. Languages
> >> with a sparse lexicon would simply produce a repetition of lines with
> the
> >> same words:
> >>
> >> Be not upset about wrongdoers
> >> nor upset about those wrongdoers;
> >> like plants they quickly wilt,
> >> like plants they wilt.
> >>
> >>> I will be using parallelism when I attempt some poetry in
> >>> Senjecas.
> >>> Senjecas is not conducive to rhyme.
> >>
> >> Parallelism is found in many poetic forms in the World as well. Never
> hurts
> >> to say the same thing five different ways -- after all, before there was
> >> writing and before you could just look up a line of poetry online, if
> you
> >> stop paying attention during an epic recitation, you can easily miss a
> >> key portion of the plot if it weren't repeated.
> >>
> >>> Charlie
> >>
> >> Padraic
> >>
> >>
>
Messages in this topic (17)
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2b. Re: No Songs To Sing
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:32 pm ((PST))
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Ben Scerri <[email protected]> wrote:
> -ar (Eternal Case (actually, if anyone could give me the actual term for a
> case that represents that we have been doing something since the beginning
> of time, that would be great. Like Habitual, but with a far longer reach,
> and one that basically says EVERYONE does this at some point)
That's not a case by the usual definition. Sounds like gnomic aspect.
> On the wave pattern, here is a very crude joke:
>
> Xho-gdak Rkózu Ger Nòk = The one-handed man counts to 6.
>
> I'll leave you guys to figure out why (shouldn't take long) *shakes head at
> self*
My inner 12-year-old got it right away.
Messages in this topic (17)
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2c. Re: No Songs To Sing
Posted by: "[email protected]" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:12 pm ((PST))
Unfortunately, though I'm 20, my inner 12-year-old never gave up his job.
Sadly, crude jokes like this are usually the first things I do with a
conlang... Then I get down the REAL business...
And thanks for the gnomic aspect. I'll look into it :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Wallace
Sent: 08/02/2012, 8:32 am
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: No Songs To Sing
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Ben Scerri <[email protected]> wrote:
> -ar (Eternal Case (actually, if anyone could give me the actual term for a
> case that represents that we have been doing something since the beginning
> of time, that would be great. Like Habitual, but with a far longer reach,
> and one that basically says EVERYONE does this at some point)
That's not a case by the usual definition. Sounds like gnomic aspect.
> On the wave pattern, here is a very crude joke:
>
> Xho-gdak Rkózu Ger Nòk = The one-handed man counts to 6.
>
> I'll leave you guys to figure out why (shouldn't take long) *shakes head at
> self*
My inner 12-year-old got it right away.
Messages in this topic (17)
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2d. Gnomic Aspect (was: Re: No Songs To Sing)
Posted by: "Brian" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:58 pm ((PST))
How do you all handle the Gnomic Aspect (if at all) in your conlangs?
In Khevreþy I use an original case (Restemative) for the subject of the verb.
Manhulþu-k baru-ka-tt.
Warrior-REST fight-IMPRF
Warriors fight.
-----Original Message-----
From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sender: Constructed Languages List <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2012 22:13:06
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: No Songs To Sing
Unfortunately, though I'm 20, my inner 12-year-old never gave up his job.
Sadly, crude jokes like this are usually the first things I do with a
conlang... Then I get down the REAL business...
And thanks for the gnomic aspect. I'll look into it :)
-----Original Message-----
From: Garth Wallace
Sent: 08/02/2012, 8:32 am
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: No Songs To Sing
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Ben Scerri <[email protected]> wrote:
> -ar (Eternal Case (actually, if anyone could give me the actual term for a
> case that represents that we have been doing something since the beginning
> of time, that would be great. Like Habitual, but with a far longer reach,
> and one that basically says EVERYONE does this at some point)
That's not a case by the usual definition. Sounds like gnomic aspect.
> On the wave pattern, here is a very crude joke:
>
> Xho-gdak Rkózu Ger Nòk = The one-handed man counts to 6.
>
> I'll leave you guys to figure out why (shouldn't take long) *shakes head at
> self*
My inner 12-year-old got it right away.
Messages in this topic (17)
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2e. Re: Gnomic Aspect (was: Re: No Songs To Sing)
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 6:33 pm ((PST))
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Brian <[email protected]> wrote:
> How do you all handle the Gnomic Aspect (if at all) in your conlangs?
>
> In Khevreþy I use an original case (Restemative) for the subject of the
> verb.
>
>
Oasa treats it as a matter for evidentials. A lot of mood and aspect stuff
gets shoveled off onto the evidentials in Oasa. Gnomic utterances are
marked with the "hearsay" evidential "lo." Sometimes, quotations of poetry
out of context will replace the original evidential particle with "lo."
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (17)
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3a. Re: Endangered Languages
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:59 pm ((PST))
In the modern world, at least, nationalism (> formation of a bureaucratic
state, and the promulgation of a "national language") is one of the main
culprits. At least in the place I know best, Indonesia. There are
state-sanctioned public schools almost everywhere now; the practice is that the
first 2 or 3 years are conducted in the local language (but there may be more
than one!!), together with basic instruction in Bah.Indonesia. Then the rest of
schooling is conducted in Indonesian. Many adults already had a smattering of
colloquial Malay/Indon. left over from the colonial era,, and the kids hear it
more and more on the radio, in newspapers, books, TV (where it exists), and
usually in church or at the mosque. (I went to a Sunday Mass in Tanah Toraja,
Sulawesi-- the local lang. is alive and well, but the Mass was in Indonesian.)
Then a particular problem in Indonesia is a policy of "transmigration", where
excess population (mainly from Java) is
transferred to less populous areas. Their kids go to school with the locals,
and most Javanese (esp. the kids) now speak Indonesian.
I imagine the same things are happening in Africa, China, India; and happened
long ago in S.America, not to mention the US.
----- Original Message -----
From: George Corley <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Sent: Monday, February 6, 2012 12:16 AM
Subject: Re: Endangered Languages
An endangered language is one that is likely to go extinct in the near
future. I would say standard signs of an endangered language:
- the language has less than 1,000 speakers
- children are not learning the language
- the language is used almost exclusively at home
On Mon, Feb 6, 2012 at 12:01 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <
[email protected]> wrote:
> How can a language become endangered?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
> Tweet me
>
>
>
> @greenNovelist
>
Messages in this topic (5)
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4a. Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
Posted by: "A. Mendes" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 8:07 pm ((PST))
http://pseudoglyphs.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/name-that-glyph-round-seven/
We're back into it guys. Computer problems were followed by moving house.
But now all is operational and settled. Accumulative examples with be up
next week. :-)
Please take part in Name That Glyph | Round Eight.
Messages in this topic (3)
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4b. Re: Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
Posted by: "John Erickson" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:21 pm ((PST))
I like how "woo" and "race" are the same glyph. Seems appropriate.
For this week:
A4 wrap
C1 Tardis (well, you took "dalek," so why not?)
C2 printing press
C3 trophy, award
D1 power
D3 cactus
E2 push
H1 drip
H3 roller, cylinder
I1 stop
Messages in this topic (3)
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4c. Re: Name That Glyph | Round Seven « Pseudoglyphs
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 8, 2012 4:18 am ((PST))
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 17:06:55 +1300, A. Mendes <[email protected]> wrote:
>http://pseudoglyphs.wordpress.com/2012/02/08/name-that-glyph-round-seven/
There were three sets of suggestions on your blog post for Round Six (mine
included) that it doesn't look like you noticed.
(Then again, if you do take them all, that'll be quite a bit of congestion
on the t- words. Feel free to move mine wholesale to a different round to
even things out...)
Alex
Messages in this topic (3)
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5a. Re: Number Creation
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Tue Feb 7, 2012 9:54 pm ((PST))
Yemorans hands are differently-shaped. The four races are: square, rectangle,
triangle, circle, and combo, meaning that both parents don't have the the
same0shaped hands. What's the difference between cardinal and ordinal numbers,
I forgot.
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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5b. Re: Number Creation
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 8, 2012 12:15 am ((PST))
On Tue, Feb 7, 2012 at 9:54 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Yemorans hands are differently-shaped. The four races are: square, rectangle,
> triangle, circle, and combo, meaning that both parents don't have the the
> same0shaped hands. What's the difference between cardinal and ordinal
> numbers, I forgot.
Cardinal numbers are for counting: one, two, three...
Ordinal numbers are for ordering: first, second, third...
Messages in this topic (18)
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