There are 2 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
1b. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions
From: Eugene Oh
Messages
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1a. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2012 12:55 am ((PST))
2012/2/9 Eugene Oh <[email protected]>
> Like the multiple types of negatives a lot. The topic is one of my
> favourites to play around with, for exactly the multiple shades of
> negativity there are that you mention.
>
>
Yeah, it's also one of my favourite topic, ever since I discovered that
affirmation and negation needn't be symmetrical (I think it was when I
first discovered Arabic).
> Arithide has 3 varieties of negation, though less clearly marked than
> Moten. All three varieties are marked by the descendants of the negative
> particle in Old Arithide, "ava".
>
> 1) Narrow negation
> The negation attaches itself purely to the end of the inflected verb (-va)
> and negates only that inflected verb. The action implied by the verb has
> not happened. Eg, vaksa "she has gone" > vaksava "she has not gone".
>
> 2) Broad negation
> The negation attaches itself to the head of the stem of the verb (av-,
> af-, au-), effectively becoming a new verb that is semantically opposite to
> the original. The absence/non-occurrence of the action implied by the verb
> is the current state. Eg, vaksa > avvaksa "she has taken the course of
> not-going".
How are those two different in actual sentences? Or is this prefix also
used for semantic opposites like come/go or give/take?
> This semantic negation is also applicable to adjectives and adverbs, but
> means, like English "not/non-" and Moten "mu", simply "alternative to":
> mārai "far" > aumārai "non-far".
>
>
Yeah, my first insight into the complexity of negation was when I realised
words like "not" didn't always mean "opposite of", but could simply mean
"other than". It broadened the scope of negation for me.
> 3) Negative imperatives
> Negative imperatives can be expressed via tacking the imperative ending
> onto the semantically negated verb, eg vagē "go!" > avvagē "don't go!".
> Alternatively a periphrasis can be employed, namely "mēra + imperfective",
> eg mēra vagēn, "don't go!"
>
>
Moten is a bit boring in that respect: the imperative is formed using the
stem of the verb without any affix, and the negative imperative is simply
formed by adding _mu_ to that. E.g.: _ag_: "go!" > _mu ag_: "don't go!"
(literally "do something else than going!"). I wish it'd been a bit more
original, but unfortunately Moten doesn't work like that. I guess one could
also use the infinitive followed by _memun_: "none" and a shouting
intonation to mean the same thing. E.g.: _jagi memun!_: "no going!", but
that would be rather informal, something a parent would say to a child, as
in English ("no running around behind my back!").
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (4)
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1b. Re: New Blog Post: Moten Part VI: Negation and Polar Questions
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 9, 2012 5:38 am ((PST))
On 9 Feb 2012, at 08:54, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> 2) Broad negation
>> The negation attaches itself to the head of the stem of the verb (av-,
>> af-, au-), effectively becoming a new verb that is semantically opposite to
>> the original. The absence/non-occurrence of the action implied by the verb
>> is the current state. Eg, vaksa > avvaksa "she has taken the course of
>> not-going".
>
>
> How are those two different in actual sentences? Or is this prefix also
> used for semantic opposites like come/go or give/take?
>
Not for semantic opposites.
Eg, raen�ltaiva "you cannot choose" vs. auraen�ltai "you can not-choose"
-�ltai is the potential suffix. There are probably better examples than this,
but I'm not thinking of them right now!
>
>> This semantic negation is also applicable to adjectives and adverbs, but
>> means, like English "not/non-" and Moten "mu", simply "alternative to":
>> m�grai "far" > aum�grai "non-far".
>>
>>
> Yeah, my first insight into the complexity of negation was when I realised
> words like "not" didn't always mean "opposite of", but could simply mean
> "other than". It broadened the scope of negation for me.
>
>
>> 3) Negative imperatives
>> Negative imperatives can be expressed via tacking the imperative ending
>> onto the semantically negated verb, eg vag�l "go!" > avvag�l "don't go!".
>> Alternatively a periphrasis can be employed, namely "m�lra + imperfective",
>> eg m�lra vag�ln, "don't go!"
>>
>>
> Moten is a bit boring in that respect: the imperative is formed using the
> stem of the verb without any affix, and the negative imperative is simply
> formed by adding _mu_ to that. E.g.: _ag_: "go!" > _mu ag_: "don't go!"
> (literally "do something else than going!"). I wish it'd been a bit more
> original, but unfortunately Moten doesn't work like that. I guess one could
> also use the infinitive followed by _memun_: "none" and a shouting
> intonation to mean the same thing. E.g.: _jagi memun!_: "no going!", but
> that would be rather informal, something a parent would say to a child, as
> in English ("no running around behind my back!").
>
> --
> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
>
> http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (4)
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