There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Fw: Rules an Yardish's Writing Sysem
From: Padraic Brown
2a. Re: bird names
From: Charlie Brickner
2b. Re: bird names
From: Herman Miller
2c. Re: bird names
From: Roger Mills
2d. Re: bird names
From: Dan Sulani
3a. Re: Outdoors
From: Herman Miller
3b. Re: Outdoors
From: Charlie Brickner
3c. Re: Outdoors
From: Peter Cyrus
3d. Re: Outdoors
From: MorphemeAddict
3e. Re: Outdoors
From: Carsten Becker
3f. Re: Outdoors
From: Ph. D.
3g. Re: Outdoors
From: A. da Mek
3h. Re: Outdoors
From: Nikolay Ivankov
3i. Re: Outdoors
From: MorphemeAddict
4a. The Yardish Writing System
From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
4b. Re: The Yardish Writing System
From: Matthew Turnbull
4c. Re: The Yardish Writing System
From: Virginia Keys
4d. Re: The Yardish Writing System
From: Nikolay Ivankov
5a. progressive vocabulary stories
From: Jerry Muelver
5b. Re: progressive vocabulary stories
From: MorphemeAddict
6a. Re: Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
From: Carsten Becker
Messages
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1a. Re: Fw: Rules an Yardish's Writing Sysem
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:31 pm ((PST))
--- On Wed, 2/15/12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Amazing.
Thanks!
> So when I write this up in my lexicon, should I write it in the
> font called braille and tell what each dot represents, that
> what I was thinking,
I guess it depends on who this lexicon is for. If it's your own private
lexicon, I guess you could braille it if you wanted to. If it's for
general consumption, like on a web site, you might consider showing both
the braille (or whatever tactile characters you have chosen) as well as
some kind of transliteration into standard Latin characters so the rest
of us can read as well.
> I like the tactile symbols idea idea, can I combine the two?
Possibly not unless you have access to some means of producing a 3-D
tactile image. I know there are braille peripherals that allow blind
people to read text displayed on a computer screen -- but the ones I've
seen are restricted to the six-dot braille scheme. If you have, or could
invent, some large flat device with lots of small rods that could be
pushed up in order to create a 3-D image, then anyone could touch and
feel what the tactile symbols are like. Sadly, most of us have access
only to video screens which can really only show 2-D images -- little
visual depth and no tactile functionality at all.
Padraic
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
Messages in this topic (18)
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2a. Re: bird names
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:50 pm ((PST))
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 18:08:40 -0600, Adam Walker <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm wondering if I might not be better off inventing a name that strikes
>out in YET ANOTHER direction, since there seems to be almost no agreement
>on what to call this bird. But before I make up my mind, I was wondering
>if anyone knows what to call this bird in Romanian, Asturian, Provencal,
>Walloon, Arabic, Maltese, Venitian, Langobard, Ladin or Ancient
>Hebrew/Punic-Phonecian.
>
I know this is not in your list of languages, but I've always loved the German
compound nouns.
The swift (A. apus) is Turmschwalbe (tower-swallow) or Mauersegler (wall-
sailor).
Charlie
Messages in this topic (6)
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2b. Re: bird names
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:52 pm ((PST))
On 2/15/2012 7:08 PM, Adam Walker wrote:
> Also, does anyone have an explination or even a reasonable guess as to why
> the names of this bird are so random?
>
> Adam
My guess would be that the ancients may have considered them in the same
category as swallows (although unrelated, they appear similar). So
later, when a distinct word was needed, each language did its own thing.
I believe the Latin "apus" is really latinized Greek meaning something
like "no feet" (as swifts have very short legs and may appear to have no
feet).
Messages in this topic (6)
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2c. Re: bird names
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:37 pm ((PST))
Adam Walker wrote:
I decided, today, that I need a word for the swift in Carrajina, since it
is a native species. (snip)
Catalan -- falciot negre
Greek -- maurotachtara
Spanish -- vencejo común
French -- martinet noir
Galician -- cirrio común
Italian -- rondone
Latin -- apus
Piedmontese -- rondon
Portuguese -- andorinhão-preto
Sardinian -- rundinone
Sicilian -- rinninuni
I'm wondering if I might not be better off inventing a name that strikes
out in YET ANOTHER direction, since there seems to be almost no agreement
on what to call this bird. But before I make up my mind, I was wondering
if anyone knows what to call this bird in Romanian, Asturian, Provencal,
Walloon, Arabic, Maltese, Venitian, Langobard, Ladin or Ancient
Hebrew/Punic-Phonecian.
====================================
I don't know, but I'd suggest trying to find it in Punic-Phoenician, since they
founded Carthage, right? OTOH are there Berbers in that area? They might have
had a word. Good luck finding those :-))))) It's also possible each of your
ethnic groups in Carrajina could have their own word.
Adam: Also, does anyone have an explination or even a reasonable guess as to why
the names of this bird are so random?
==================
Sorry, no.
Messages in this topic (6)
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2d. Re: bird names
Posted by: "Dan Sulani" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 2:10 am ((PST))
Hi all!
[ delurking for a moment ]
Om 16 February, Adam Walker wrote:
>I decided, today, that I need a word for the swift in Carrajina, since it
>is a native species. So I thought I'd go my usual route -- look the word
>up in a bunch of Romance languages (plus Greek, Arabic and Ancient Hebrew),
I don't know about *ancient* Hebrew, but in modern Hebrew a swift is called
/sis/. According to my dictionary, there is no etymology for it, just a
suggestion that
it comes from its call, heard here as /si - si/. Neither I nor my son have
ever seen one around here.
But that doesn't necessarily mean they weren't here in ancient times: after
all, according to the Bible, there were lions and bears roaming around,
which I haven't seen these days outside of zoos.
OTOH, *swallows* we *have* seen here in the Middle East. They are called
/snunit/ in Hebrew and my dictionary says that they were called /sinuntu/ in
Akkadian, /snunitO/ in Aramaic,
(not sure of the value of the final vowel --- it is written with a
"kamats" in my dictionary, and it's not
clear to me exactly what sound it represents --- AFAIK, possibly some sort
of low-mid to low back vowel ).
According to my dictionary, they are called /sununiyah/ in Arabic.
Hope this helps.
Dan Sulani
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
likehsna rtem zuv tikuhnuh auag inuvuz vaka'a.
A word is an awesome thing.
Messages in this topic (6)
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3a. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:46 pm ((PST))
On 2/15/2012 3:15 PM, Charlie Brickner wrote:
> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was visiting our
> shut-
> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
>
> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your culture
> has doors! If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors, how do
> you
> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
>
> Charlie
Why do we say "outdoors" anyway, come to think of it? "Outwalls" might
be better. Seen in that way, the significant thing isn't which side of a
door you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls. Or you could
just say "outside".
Messages in this topic (17)
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3b. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:21 pm ((PST))
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:43:42 -0500, Herman Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Why do we say "outdoors" anyway, come to think of it? "Outwalls" might
>be better. Seen in that way, the significant thing isn't which side of a
>door you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls. Or you could
>just say "outside".
Perhaps because one has to go out through the door to get outside. The
door is more important in the transition from inside to outside than is the
wall.
I notice in my Cassell's German dictionary that, besides 'draußen', German has
the word 'Freie,' which means 'open air', and that 'im Freien' means
'outdoors'.
Do you suppose that 'Freie' is related to the adj. 'frei,' 'free'?
Charlie
Messages in this topic (17)
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3c. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Peter Cyrus" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 1:02 am ((PST))
I think there is, among natlangs, some ambiguity between whether their
"door" refers to the hole in the wall or the thing that blocks it,
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 3:43 AM, Herman Miller <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/15/2012 3:15 PM, Charlie Brickner wrote:
>
>> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was visiting
>> our shut-
>> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
>>
>> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your
>> culture
>> has doors! If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors, how
>> do you
>> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>
> Why do we say "outdoors" anyway, come to think of it? "Outwalls" might be
> better. Seen in that way, the significant thing isn't which side of a door
> you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls. Or you could just say
> "outside".
>
Messages in this topic (17)
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3d. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:25 am ((PST))
I've always assumed "Freie" and "frei" are obviously related.
stevo
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Charlie Brickner <
[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 21:43:42 -0500, Herman Miller
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >Why do we say "outdoors" anyway, come to think of it? "Outwalls" might
> >be better. Seen in that way, the significant thing isn't which side of a
> >door you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls. Or you could
> >just say "outside".
>
> Perhaps because one has to go out through the door to get outside. The
> door is more important in the transition from inside to outside than is
> the wall.
>
> I notice in my Cassell's German dictionary that, besides 'draußen', German
> has
> the word 'Freie,' which means 'open air', and that 'im Freien' means
> 'outdoors'.
> Do you suppose that 'Freie' is related to the adj. 'frei,' 'free'?
>
> Charlie
>
Messages in this topic (17)
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3e. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:26 am ((PST))
On Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:21:17 -0500, Charlie Brickner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I notice in my Cassell's German dictionary that, besides 'draußen', German has
>the word 'Freie,' which means 'open air', and that 'im Freien' means
'outdoors'.
>Do you suppose that 'Freie' is related to the adj. 'frei,' 'free'?
Yes, _das Freie_ is a nominalization of _frei_ 'free'. It basically only
occurs in _im Freien_, lit. 'in the free', and _ins Freie_, lit. 'into the
free'.
Carsten
Messages in this topic (17)
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3f. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:27 am ((PST))
Herman Miller wrote:
> Why do we say "outdoors" anyway, come to think of it? "Outwalls" might
> be better. Seen in that way, the significant thing isn't which side of
> a door you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls. Or you
> could just say "outside".
Although "outside" simply means "not in the current room."
"Hey boss, do you have time to talk to my cousin about the
mail room job? He's waiting outside." i.e. he's in the next room.
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (17)
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3g. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "A. da Mek" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:39 am ((PST))
> the significant thing isn't which side of a
door you're on, but that you're not surrounded by walls.
Maybe even walls are not the most significant thing but the ceil.
Was not the Latin phrase "sub jove" (under sky, in the open air)?
Messages in this topic (17)
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3h. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:44 am ((PST))
In Russian one uses "na ulitse" (on the street) or "na dvore" (in the yard)
for outdoors, sometimes also "za oknom" (beyond the window). In Latvian it
is either arÄ (outside) or laukÄ "in the field".
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Charlie Brickner <
[email protected]> wrote:
> It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was visiting our
> shut-
> ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
>
> The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your
> culture
> has doors! If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors, how
> do you
> express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
>
> Charlie
>
Messages in this topic (17)
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3i. Re: Outdoors
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:04 am ((PST))
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:43 AM, Nikolay Ivankov <[email protected]>wrote:
> In Russian one uses "na ulitse" (on the street) or "na dvore" (in the yard)
> for outdoors, sometimes also "za oknom" (beyond the window). In Latvian it
> is either arÄ (outside) or laukÄ "in the field".
>
"ArÄ" looks like a locative. What is the nominative and what does it mean?
stevo
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 9:15 PM, Charlie Brickner <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > It's 60° here in the Blue Ridge Mountains today and, as I was visiting
> our
> > shut-
> > ins, I was enjoying the winter outdoors.
> >
> > The thought occurred to me that you can't say "outdoors" unless your
> > culture
> > has doors! If your conculture is so primitive as not to have doors, how
> > do you
> > express the concept of "outdoors" in your conlang?
> >
> > Charlie
> >
>
Messages in this topic (17)
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4a. The Yardish Writing System
Posted by: "Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:14 pm ((PST))
Thanks for the help. What kind of implement should they use? What if they use
material in the form of the braille dots withbraille captions bellow them?I'm
asking about the implement because I'm thinking they probably wouldn;t use a
braille writer or slate, as that sounds too earthly.Also, I'm just envissioning
a tablet of some kind, what did the stone tablets look like? What other kinds
of material could be used to make tablets, and what makes them tablets?
Nicole Andrews
Pen name Mellissa Green
Budding novelist
Tweet me
@greenNovelist
Messages in this topic (5)
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4b. Re: The Yardish Writing System
Posted by: "Matthew Turnbull" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:52 am ((PST))
If they had lots of time, they could have made bas-relief moulds for
the braille by impressing a stylus, made of wood maybe, into a wax
tablet, and could have then filled it in with clay and fired it, but
I'm not sure how well that would work. They could also have had
something like signet rings to write in wax/clay with, which would
probably be made of metal, stone or wood.
On 2/15/12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for the help. What kind of implement should they use? What if they
> use material in the form of the braille dots withbraille captions bellow
> them?I'm asking about the implement because I'm thinking they probably
> wouldn;t use a braille writer or slate, as that sounds too earthly.Also, I'm
> just envissioning a tablet of some kind, what did the stone tablets look
> like? What other kinds of material could be used to make tablets, and what
> makes them tablets?
> Nicole Andrews
>
> Pen name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
> Tweet me
>
>
>
> @greenNovelist
>
--
Sent from my mobile device
Messages in this topic (5)
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4c. Re: The Yardish Writing System
Posted by: "Virginia Keys" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:07 am ((PST))
If you want a braille-like system, they could press small beads into a clay
surface. Of course, the beads would have to not melt or burn during the
firing process.
Messages in this topic (5)
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4d. Re: The Yardish Writing System
Posted by: "Nikolay Ivankov" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:16 am ((PST))
It could also be something like the Phaistos Dick, where the signs were
written by pressing the seals onto clay. Though, I'd rather think that if
one writes on clay, then something like cuneiform is much more likely to
develop, since instead of a relatively big number of seals one needs only a
stylus to write it. And cuneiform also looks more like Braille too.
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 4:07 PM, Virginia Keys <[email protected]>wrote:
> If you want a braille-like system, they could press small beads into a clay
> surface. Of course, the beads would have to not melt or burn during the
> firing process.
>
Messages in this topic (5)
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5a. progressive vocabulary stories
Posted by: "Jerry Muelver" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:19 am ((PST))
I would like to push beyond "The cat sees the mouse under the table"
for vocabulary development and practice lessons for my conlang. I have
a basic vocabulary of 1200 words built on a relex of English Dolch and
Swadesh lists, extended to 3700 words on English usage-frequency
lists. I am now looking for stories of progressive difficulty to
translate for parallel text, or "use the dictionary for unfamiliar
words", language development exercises.
I've been looking at fairy tales, folk tales, myths, and legends, but
haven't found a ready-made set of progressive-vocabulary examples.
Does such a thing exist in public domain or Creative Commons license?
---- Jerry Muelver http://llmj.wikispaces.com
Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: progressive vocabulary stories
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:24 am ((PST))
McGuffey readers? I'm not a fan of them, but they might be like what you
want.
stevo
On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Jerry Muelver <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would like to push beyond "The cat sees the mouse under the table"
> for vocabulary development and practice lessons for my conlang. I have
> a basic vocabulary of 1200 words built on a relex of English Dolch and
> Swadesh lists, extended to 3700 words on English usage-frequency
> lists. I am now looking for stories of progressive difficulty to
> translate for parallel text, or "use the dictionary for unfamiliar
> words", language development exercises.
>
> I've been looking at fairy tales, folk tales, myths, and legends, but
> haven't found a ready-made set of progressive-vocabulary examples.
> Does such a thing exist in public domain or Creative Commons license?
>
> ---- Jerry Muelver http://llmj.wikispaces.com
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: Carsten Becker's Interlinear WP Plugin
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 16, 2012 6:50 am ((PST))
To add to David's advertising of earlier this week:
You can get my interlinear glosses Wordpress plugin also from Wordpress.org
now, so you get automatic notification in case of updates :) Doesn't work
with blogs hosted on Wordpress.com, though, because they don't allow custom
plugins :(
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-interlinear-glosses/
Carsten
Messages in this topic (3)
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