There are 20 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1.1. Re: Case Creation
From: Anthony Miles
1.2. Re: Case Creation
From: Eric Christopherson
2a. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Anthony Miles
2b. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Garth Wallace
2c. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Alex Fink
2d. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Herman Miller
2e. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Charlie Brickner
2f. Re: Siye Babel Text
From: Anthony Miles
3a. Re: Number Creation
From: Anthony Miles
4.1. Re: Newspeak was Re: [CONLANG] quick vocab/sociology survey
From: Brian Woodward
5a. Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Armin Buch
5b. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Adam Walker
5c. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Wm Annis
5d. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: BPJ
5e. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: MorphemeAddict
5f. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Adam Walker
5g. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Arnt Richard Johansen
5h. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: J. M. DeSantis
5i. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Jen Runds
5j. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
From: Adam Walker
Messages
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1.1. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:59 pm ((PST))
I know I'm late to the game, but if you look under Samoan in
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_personal_pronouns#Proto-languages
you'll see that there a "first person inclusive singular" which indicates
emotional involvement on the part of the speaker.
Messages in this topic (53)
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1.2. Re: Case Creation
Posted by: "Eric Christopherson" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:22 pm ((PST))
On Feb 22, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Anthony Miles wrote:
> I know I'm late to the game, but if you look under Samoan in
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_personal_pronouns#Proto-languages
> you'll see that there a "first person inclusive singular" which indicates
> emotional involvement on the part of the speaker.
Cool, and cool list of pronouns. And I see there's a language called Favorlang,
which sounds like a slang term we might have made up on this list.
Messages in this topic (53)
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2a. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:27 pm ((PST))
I see most of the lovely tildes did not come through. Any suggestions on an
alternative orthography for the copious nasal vowels? I can't use /m/ or /n/
without ambiguity, and I can't use double vowels. Maybe /ng/ or /q/? Should
I end the oral vowels in /h/?
This is a work in progress, courtesy of the PIL (Polycosmic Institute of
Linguistics); I was going to have to translate the Babel Text anyway, so I
started with it. Any errors are due to PIL missionaries' inexperience. One
interesting sociolinguistic note: the name of the LORD God (ungkutu - mihi
placet!) cannot be put in the absolutive case, since that would imply he
could be acted upon.
The cases are
TOP -kung
ERG -i
ABS -a
DAT/LAT -su
ABL -sung
LOC -keng
GEN -ne
COM -ni
INS -ya
There are no diphthongs: keinãme/keinangme is pronounced ke-i-nã/nang-me.
The PIL has not published any data on stress or allophony as of the date of
this message.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2012 17:36:52 -0600, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>And people treat the flu like it's a bad thing....
>
>Lee
>________________________________
>From: Anthony Miles
>Sent: 2/21/2012 4:18 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Siye Babel Text
>
>I had the flu this weekend, so I cooked up this. The order of texts
>are: main text, interlinear, notes. The tilde indicates a nasal vowel.
>
>Babel Text
>11:1 uka luku tũ siye ã yokono siyeki emukẽ kek&#7869;.
>11:2 ã emuku lutomisũ Sina lu luponunekũa keuluwene, ã
>emuki kemea kekẽ.
>11:3 ã emui emusu kesiye: yetãpakea lenukeloi ã emua
>lepakelosũ nimuni. ã emui yetã yetãpakekẽa, s&#361;tũ
inelokẽa
>keyanayãne.
>11:4 ã emu kesiyene ame: lusilia ã nukenukepaa lenukeloi.
>nukenukepa utunea lupatasu kenutupai. le lenenea lenukeloi.
>Lea uka lu peyanesu kesutusũku.
>11:5 ã ũkutua kesutunune lusiline ã nukenukepane kekoyẽsu.
>ũlo ũkekelonei emua kenukene.
>11:6 ã ũkutui kesiyene ame. koyẽ! tũku &#361;loi.
tũsiyeku emuloi
>keyanayã. Emuloi keinãme kenuke. sãwemekẽ emuloi keyã ke-
>tesayã ame uka eweloa kenuke.
>11:7 lesutulonui ã lumekẽ lelo siyenea leũsalos&#361;i. Emua
ũsa ũ
>siyeneke kepinulonui.
>11:8 sũmesũ ũkutui emuloa lumesũ uka lune peyanesu
>kesutusũne. emui lusili nukenei kenemene.
>11:9 sũmesũ Papeku emu melenei, sũmesũ kemekẽ
ũtukui uka
>lu siyenea leũsasũne ã kemesũ ũtukui emuloa uka lu peyanesu
>kesutusũne.
>
>Babel Text
>11:1
>uka lu -ku tũ siye ã yokono siyeki emu -
>kẽ ke -kẽ.
>Whole earth-TOP one speak and common tongue 3 -
>LOC VBLZR-be
>11:2
>ã emu-ku lutomi-sũ Sina lu luponu-ne-kũ-a
>ke-uluwe-ne,
>and 3-TOP east-ABL Shinar land plain-GEN-LOC-ABS VBLZR-
>find-PST
>ã emu-ki keme-a ke-kẽ.
>and 3-INS place-ABS VBLZER-be
>11:3
>ã emu-i emu-su ke-siye: yetãpake-a le-nuke-lo-
>i ã emu-a nimu-ni le-pake-lo-sũ
>and 3-ERG 3-LAT VBLZR-speak brick-ABS 1-make-PL-HORT
>and 3-ABS good-COM 1-be,hot-PL-CAUS
>Ã emu-i yetã yetãpake-kẽ-a, sũtũ
inelo-kẽ-a
> ke-yanayã-ne.
>and 3-ERG stone brick-LOC-ABS mortar slime-LOC-
>ABS VBLZR-use-PST
>11:4
>ã emu-i ke-siye-ne ame: lusili-a
>ã nukenukepa-a le-nuke-lo-i.
>And 3-ERG VBLZR-speak-PST QUOT city-ABS and tower-
>ABS 1-make-PL-HORT
>Nukenukepa utu-ne-a lupata-su ke-nutu-pa-
>i.
>tower head-GEN-ABS heaven-LAT VBLZER-go-up-HORT
>Le lene-ne-a le-nuke-lo-i.
>1 name-GEN-ABS 1-make-PL-HORT
>Le-a uka lu peya-ne-su le-sutu-sũ-ku.
>1-ABS entire earth circle-GEN-LOC 1-go-CAUS-NEG
>11:5
>ã ũkutu-a ke-sutu-nu-ne lusili-ne ã
>nukenukepa-ne ke-koyẽ-su.
>And LORD-ABS VBLZR-go-down-PST city-GEN and tower-GE N
>VBLZR-see-LAT
>Ũ-lo ũkeke-lo-ne-i emu-a ke-nuke-ne.
>Man-PL child-PL-GEN-ERG 3-ABS VBLZR-make-PST
>11:6
>ã ũkutu-i ke-siye-ne ame.
Koyẽ!
>Tũ-ku ũ-lo-i.
>and LORD-ERG VBLZR-speak-PST QUOT look one-
>TOP man-PL-NOM
>tũ-siye-ku emu-lo-i ke-yanayã.
>One-speak-TOP 3-PL-ERG VBLZR-use
>Emu-lo-i ke-inã-ne ke-nuke.
>3-PL-ERG VBLZR-begin-PST VBLZR-make
>sãweme- kẽ emu-lo-i ke-yã ke-tesayã
> ame uka ewe-a ke-nuke
>now-LOC 3-PL-ERG VBLZR-able VBLZER-draw REL entire
>thing-ABS VBLZR-make
>11:7
>le-sutu-lo-nu-i ã lume-kẽ le-lo siye-ne-a
>le-ũsa-lo-sũ-i.
>1-go-PL-down-HORT and place-LOC 1-PL speak-GEN-ABS 1-
>change-PL-CAUS-HORT
>Emu-a ũsa ũ siye-ne-ke
ke-pinu-lo-ku-i.
>3-ABS other man speak-GEN-INS VBLZR-know-PL-NEG-HORT
>11:8
>sũme-sũ ũkutu-i emu-lo-a keme-sũ
uka
>lu peya-ne-su
>reason-ABL LORD-ERG 3-PL-ABL place-ABL whole earth
>circle-GEN-LAT
>ke-sutu-sũ-ne.
>VBLZR-go-CAUS-PST
>Emu-i lusili nuke-ne-i ke-neme-ne.
>3-ERG city make-GEN-ABS VBLZR-stop-PST
>11:9
>Sũme-sũ Pape-ku emu mele-ne-i,
sũme-sũ
>kemekẽ ũtuku-i
>reason-ABL Babel-TOP 3 name-GEN-ERG reason-ABL place-
>LOC LORD-ERG
>uka lu siye-ne-a le-ũsa-sũ-ne
>ã keme-sũ ũtuku-i emu-lo-a
>whole earth language-GEN-ABL 1-change-CAUS-PST and place-
>ABL LORD-ERG 3-PL-ABS
>uka lu peya-ne-su ke-sutu-sũ-ne
>whole earth circle-GEN-LAT VBLZR-go-CAUS-PST
>Siye (Conlang 21712) extra characters:
>Dãõĩẽũ
>
>SOV
>Ergative
>Case-marking (Top, Erg, Abs, Gen, Loc, Abl, Dat/Lat, Com, Ins)
>PP > N P
>NP > A N
>NP > Neg N
>S Aux O V
>Past/Non Past
>Agglutinative: S-V-PL-CAUS-NEG-TENSE/MOOD
>Suffixaufnahme
Messages in this topic (8)
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2b. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Garth Wallace" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:40 pm ((PST))
On Wed, Feb 22, 2012 at 1:27 PM, Anthony Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
> I see most of the lovely tildes did not come through. Any suggestions on an
> alternative orthography for the copious nasal vowels?
Tildes should be fine. For some reason it looks like you used HTML
character entities in your message instead of plain characters. Did
you write this up as an HTML message and then convert it or something?
Messages in this topic (8)
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2c. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:55 pm ((PST))
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:27:42 -0500, Anthony Miles <[email protected]> wrote:
>I see most of the lovely tildes did not come through. Any suggestions on an
>alternative orthography for the copious nasal vowels?
Yeah, I'd leave it alone if I were you. If the neolithic technology level
of the list is your only reason to change the orthography, 'ts not a great
reason.
>I can't use /m/ or /n/
>without ambiguity, and I can't use double vowels.
What's wrong with 'm' or 'n'? Your language appears to be CV, so the only
potential confusions would be a nasal vowel followed by an oral vowel. For
those, my approach would just be to write the zero onset explicitly: perhaps
<ane> /ane/
<anhe> or <an'e> or <an-e> or whatever /a~e/
(and of course <anne> /a~ne/)
>Maybe /ng/ or /q/?
'ng' is heavy -- two characters? 'q' doesn't suggest nasality to me (okay,
it bàrely does, given that it seems often to be pressed into service for [N]).
>Should I end the oral vowels in /h/?
What, and leave the nasal vowels unmarked? Certainly not!
>This is a work in progress, courtesy of the PIL (Polycosmic Institute of
>Linguistics); I was going to have to translate the Babel Text anyway, so I
>started with it. Any errors are due to PIL missionaries' inexperience. One
>interesting sociolinguistic note: the name of the LORD God (ungkutu - mihi
>placet!) cannot be put in the absolutive case, since that would imply he
>could be acted upon.
Or act in a way that doesn't affect another thing (e.g. be subject of an
intransitive)? Or have a property? Or be somewhere? Or ...
Alex
Messages in this topic (8)
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2d. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Herman Miller" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:52 pm ((PST))
On 2/22/2012 5:55 PM, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 16:27:42 -0500, Anthony Miles<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I see most of the lovely tildes did not come through. Any suggestions on an
>> alternative orthography for the copious nasal vowels?
>
> Yeah, I'd leave it alone if I were you. If the neolithic technology level
> of the list is your only reason to change the orthography, 'ts not a great
> reason.
Tildes should be fine. ãẽĩõũ ... how about ø̃ or æ̃ ? One problem is that
the original message appeared to be in the Windows-1252 character set,
but if you want to use lots of special characters you'll want to use
UTF-8. You could always just use a tilde ~ character after the letter
for email purposes if that's easier.
Ogoneks, the little hooks used in Polish and Navajo, would be an
alternative and I've used them in my romanization of Yasaro for
instance, but if tildes aren't working for you they'd probably be just
as much of a problem. ąęįǫų ... I like them because they don't get in
the way of tone marks.
Messages in this topic (8)
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2e. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:06 pm ((PST))
On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 22:51:41 -0500, Herman Miller
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ogoneks, the little hooks used in Polish and Navajo, would be an
>alternative and I've used them in my romanization of Yasaro for
>instance, but if tildes aren't working for you they'd probably be just
>as much of a problem. ąęįǫų ... I like them because they don't get in
>the way of tone marks.
I use them in Senejcas to indicate long vowels for just that reason.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (8)
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2f. Re: Siye Babel Text
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:54 pm ((PST))
Does this copy of the text look better?
Babel Text
11:1 uka luku tũ siye � yokono siyeki emukẽ kekẽ.
11:2 � emuku lutomisũ Sina lu luponunekũa keuluwene, �
emuki kemea kekẽ.
11:3 � emui emusu kesiye: yet�pakea lenukeloi � emua
lepakelosũ nimuni. � emui yet� yet�pakekẽa, s&#361;tũ
inelokẽa
keyanay�ne.
11:4 � emu kesiyene ame: lusilia � nukenukepaa lenukeloi.
nukenukepa utunea lupatasu kenutupai. le lenenea lenukeloi.
Lea uka lu peyanesu kesutusũku.
11:5 � ũkutua kesutunune lusiline � nukenukepane kekoyẽsu.
ũlo ũkekelonei emua kenukene.
11:6 � ũkutui kesiyene ame. koyẽ! tũku &#361;loi.
tũsiyeku emuloi
keyanay�. Emuloi kein�me kenuke. s�wemekẽ emuloi key�
ketesay� ame uka eweloa kenuke.
11:7 lesutulonui � lumekẽ lelo siyenea leũsalosũi. Emua
ũsa ũ
siyeneke kepinulonui.
11:8 sũmesũ ũkutui emuloa lumesũ uka lune peyanesu
kesutusũne. emui lusili nukenei kenemene.
11:9 sũmesũ Papeku emu melenei, sũmesũ kemekẽ
ũtukui uka
lu siyenea leũsasũne � kemesũ ũtukui emuloa uka lu peyanesu
kesutusũne.
Ogoneks are cool - I'll have to find a place to use them. AFAIK,
Siye does not have tones.
I want to work in a nominative-accusative distinction for personal
pronouns and personal names (such as the LORD God), since the
language should not be purely ergative, but I've never done that
before. If I did use such a system, would the tower of Babel count
as a personal name?
Just so you know, there are words that contain ĩ and �.
ũtuku ĩnea saki peyanikẽ kemiyupa. The spirit (ĩ) of God
hover
(ed) above the the circle of water.
l� lukẽ kepomipa. The moon shines above the earth.
I'm also not sure I have discovered the entire case and
postposition system. I seek advice willingly.
Messages in this topic (8)
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3a. Re: Number Creation
Posted by: "Anthony Miles" [email protected]
Date: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:00 pm ((PST))
Washo doesn't really mark gender (it's an isolate, so etymological
work is difficult). I'm not sure whether exact numbers or human
numbers are dominant, nor whether it is possible/insulting to
count humans with regular numbers.
Messages in this topic (25)
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4.1. Re: Newspeak was Re: [CONLANG] quick vocab/sociology survey
Posted by: "Brian Woodward" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:23 am ((PST))
Honestly I don't know how I've gotten by so long without reading 1984,
considering how many times people have recommended it to me. It sounds
incredible! Thanks for the explanation.
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2012, at 22:42, Padraic Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
> --- On Tue, 2/21/12, Brian Woodward <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm pretty sure I fit into the larger
>> percentage on this statistic. I would love to learn more
>> about it.
>
> The very best way to learn more is to read George Orwell's "Nineteen
> Eighty-Four" -- Newspeak, and its place in society, is fully described.
> At its heart, Newspeak is not a "language" as we usually think of it.
> We -- especially we conlangers and poets -- think of language as a means
> for describing things and ideas beyond imagining, for discussing deep
> things, for engaging the minds of our readers in thoughts far greater
> the mere sum of the words on the paper. Words on paper all have "simple
> meanings", but put em together in the right way and they take on a new
> life and are infused with a new meaning.
>
> Take the words "form" and "people" and "order" and "the". All run of the
> mill words with simple meanings that any five year old should be able to
> grasp.
>
> Now put em in the right order: "We the people ... in order to form a more
> perfect union..." Now you have some very deep meaning! This is all about
> the People of a land seizing political power away from the autocrat and
> his oligarchs and investing themselves with that power. Dangerous stuff!
>
> I use this example as a preface to what Newspeak is and does. It is in
> many respects an ANTI-language. It is not so much a way for people to
> express deep and profound ideas, to broaden horizons and expand the
> understanding of others. On the contrary, Newspeak is a way for the
> government to shape, form and guide the thinking of the people and in
> every way possible to *narrow* horizons and *diminish* perspectives. This
> is done by selective and progressive culling of words and reduction of
> word meanings to simplest terms. As you read the book, you'll find that
> state conlangers are engaged not in word creation, but in word elimination.
> One boasts about how many words he and his colleagues have eradicated from
> the language, for example.
>
> So for example, we take the word "people". Now, we can't be having with
> people thinking for themselves and engaging in any kind of political
> thought unless that thought is 100% aligned with the government program
> of social engineering. We do this by carefully altering what the word
> "people" means. Obviously, we have to reduce obviously heterodox
> definitions like "the entire body of persons who constitute a community,
> tribe, nation, or other group by virtue of a common culture, history,
> religion, or the like" because it is dangerous for people to think that
> there might be any kind of grouping other than what our government allows.
> We should probably also reduce the meaning "racial group", because this
> is also dangerous -- we can't have people engaging in political thought
> based on differences of skin tone or origin. That means we also need to
> reduce "the persons of any particular group". (This is not to say, of
> course, that no other humans live on the planet -- indeed, in the novel,
> our country is at constant war with other great powers, but they are
> dehumanised and spoken of only in terms of their inimicality. They are
> unhuman "enemies" that need to be bravely resisted, lest they overrun the
> whole world!)
>
> This will do two things. First, it will leave us with these simplified
> definitions: "persons indefinitely or collectively" and "human beings,
> as distinguished from animals or other beings". Pretty safe and not likely
> to be politicised! Secondly, it becomes *impossible* to express the
> political statement "We the People..." because this phrase now can *ONLY*
> mean "We the living things that are not animals".
>
> Newspeak is all about reducing the number of (especially politically
> dangerous) things people can licitly think about and express. You might
> now wonder, how on earth can they enforce this? Well, the answer is
> simple: psychological and physical torture, punishment for transgression.
> Everyone is a spy, an informer; equally, everyone lives in fear of being
> found out and informed on.
>
> As time progresses, it becomes more and more impossible to express any
> idea that is not sanctioned by the State. The State controls the way
> people think, the State controls how people think and the State controls
> the way they express what they think. Every idea, every utterance that
> runs contrary to State sanctioned norms is a criminal act. It's not that
> saying the words are illegal -- what is illegal is any heterodox
> interpretation of words. The only possible translation for a document like
> the Constitution or the Declaration of Independence is "Crimethink" -- this
> word indicates any thought, any expression that runs contrary to the
> State sanctioned thought.
>
> It all comes down, really, to State determined ideology imposed with force
> upon the minds and wills of the people in order to subdue their wills
> and suborn them to State direction. It's a way for a relatively small
> cadre of people to grab and hold power over a vastly numerically superior
> majority. Take away not only someone's thoughts but even the very basic
> means of expressing those thoughts and you have what could be argued is
> a perfect, wallless cage. People in this State are "free" (unencumbered)
> to go about their daily lives of waking up in their beds, eating breakfast,
> going to the shops, going to the park, reading the paper, etc. -- but
> not one of them is truly "free" (enjoying personal rights or liberty,
> existing under, characterized by, or possessing civil and political
> liberties, etc) Those concepts have simply been eradicated.
>
> Basically, what Washington is trying to get away with on a daily basis!
>
>> Brian
>
> Padraic
>
>> On Feb 21, 2012, at 16:56, Padraic Brown <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> --- On Tue, 2/21/12, Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I wonder what percentage of the population know
>> what Newspeak
>>>> actually means?
>>>
>>> I think the answer is somewhere between 1 and Not Very
>> Many, and is
>>> probably perilously close to Too Few...
>>>
>>> Padraic
>>
Messages in this topic (61)
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5a. Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Armin Buch" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:18 am ((PST))
Greetings!
(This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
of your conventions/rules here.)
Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
languages (whether natural or constructed).
To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
online.
Kind regards,
Armin Buch
PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
them?
Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
Plansprachen
Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
Large, Andrew
The artificial language movement
Oxford & New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
Meyers, Walter E.
Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
The Tsolyani language
Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
und Typologie
Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
Plansprachen I & II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133 & 389-398.
The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
Language - Arika Okrent
In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
>From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
Rogers
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5b. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:41 am ((PST))
I have no idea if it would be of any use to you, but I conduncted a quick
and dirty research project during my MA-Teaching program on second language
instruction techniques using Lrahran, one of my invented languages. The
purpose of the project was actually to prove that I understood how to
condunct scientifically valid research, but I used a conlang to achieve
that purpose since it allowed me to control for previous exposure to the
language being taught. I still have the documents produced for the
project, including the teaching materials produced. If any of it sounds
useful to you, let me know and I will share.
Adam
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 8:08 AM, Armin Buch <[email protected]>wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> (This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
> of your conventions/rules here.)
>
> Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
> at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
> Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
> in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
> languages (whether natural or constructed).
>
> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
> hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
> lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
>
> I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
> this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
> online.
>
> Kind regards,
> Armin Buch
>
>
> PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
> them?
>
> Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
> Plansprachen
> Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
>
> Large, Andrew
> The artificial language movement
> Oxford & New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
>
> Meyers, Walter E.
> Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
> Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
>
> Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
> The Tsolyani language
> Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
>
> Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
> und Typologie
>
> Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
> Plansprachen I & II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
> Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133 & 389-398.
>
> The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
> Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
> Language - Arika Okrent
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
> Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
>
> >From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
>
> A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
> Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
> Rogers
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5c. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Wm Annis" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:53 am ((PST))
An anthropologist has been looking at the speakers of Na'vi:
https://news.ok.ubc.ca/2011/07/28/language-of-avatar-under-study/
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14664208.2011.604965
http://www.christineschreyer.ca/Research.html
--
William S. Annis
www.aoidoi.org � www.scholiastae.org
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5d. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "BPJ" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:57 am ((PST))
> Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
> und Typologie
I can recommend this one. The chapter on Balaibalan
alone makes it worth the read! I've read both the
German translation and the Italian original (as best
I could after I had forgotten my library's copy of
the German translation and two other books on a bus.
Mirabile dictu the copy turned up in the library again,
but I didn't get the fee for the lost books back, since
lost them I had! :-)
Of the other books Okrent's is the only one I'd
recommend. The others I've read were auxlangish,
and I've seen unfavorable reviews of the newer ones.
There have been some conference volumes on Tolkien's
languages. Look for "Arda Philology" on Google books.
(You will see that I wrote one of the articles. I still
believe in the general validity of the theory therein,
except that in the light of later posthumous publications
I mis-/over-interpreted the data on Tolkien's case!)
/BP Jonsson
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5e. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:01 am ((PST))
I recommend Arika Okrent's book.
stevo
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Armin Buch <[email protected]>wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> (This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
> of your conventions/rules here.)
>
> Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
> at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
> Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
> in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
> languages (whether natural or constructed).
>
> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
> hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
> lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
>
> I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
> this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
> online.
>
> Kind regards,
> Armin Buch
>
>
> PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
> them?
>
> Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
> Plansprachen
> Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
>
> Large, Andrew
> The artificial language movement
> Oxford & New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
>
> Meyers, Walter E.
> Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
> Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
>
> Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
> The Tsolyani language
> Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
>
> Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
> und Typologie
>
> Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
> Plansprachen I & II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
> Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133 & 389-398.
>
> The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
> Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
> Language - Arika Okrent
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
> Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
>
> >From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
>
> A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
> Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
> Rogers
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5f. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:08 am ((PST))
I can't say yea or nay on it yet, but I just scored a new copy day before
yesterday at Half Price Books. Shiney book. Pretty book. I will have an
opinion shortly, I am sure.
Adam
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:00 AM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> I recommend Arika Okrent's book.
>
> stevo
>
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:08 AM, Armin Buch <[email protected]
> >wrote:
>
> > Greetings!
> >
> > (This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
> > of your conventions/rules here.)
> >
> > Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
> > at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
> > Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
> > in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
> > languages (whether natural or constructed).
> >
> > To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
> > on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
> > am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
> > languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
> > hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
> > lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
> >
> > I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
> > this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
> > online.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> > Armin Buch
> >
> >
> > PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
> > them?
> >
> > Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
> > Plansprachen
> > Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
> >
> > Large, Andrew
> > The artificial language movement
> > Oxford & New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
> >
> > Meyers, Walter E.
> > Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
> > Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
> >
> > Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
> > The Tsolyani language
> > Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
> >
> > Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
> > und Typologie
> >
> > Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
> > Plansprachen I & II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
> > Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133 & 389-398.
> >
> > The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
> >
> > In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
> > Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
> > Language - Arika Okrent
> >
> > In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
> > Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
> >
> > >From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
> >
> > A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
> > Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
> > Rogers
> >
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5g. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Arnt Richard Johansen" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:14 am ((PST))
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 03:08:18PM +0100, Armin Buch wrote:
> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
> hints, or other relevant resources.
Another addition to your list:
Alan Libert, A Priori Artificial Languages (Languages of the World 24. Munich:
Lincom Europa, 2000). ISBN 3895866679.
Dr. Libert also has some other monographs on conlangs on Lincom Europa, but I
haven't read them.
--
Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5h. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "J. M. DeSantis" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 am ((PST))
Armin Buch,
I'm not certain if you are looking for scientific literature on specific
conlangs or on the creation of conlangs. If it's the former, the only
book I have on a specific conlang is a small volume (about 200 pages)
called _The Languages of Tolkien's Middle Earth_ by Ruth S. Noel
(Tolkien is where I started). It offers more detail than the bits on
pronunciation and writing in the back of _The Lord of the Rings_, and
covers many of Tolkien's languages, but mostly Quenya and Sindarin.
Though, at so few pages, I'm not certain it would entirely classify as
"scientific" there is quite a bit of information in there.
As for the second possibility (the creation of conlangs) other than some
articles (most of which are on the front page of http://conlang.org/)
I've read Mark Rosenfelder's book, _The Language Construction Kit_,
which deals both with the non-linguist's approach to creating languages
and some more scientific linguistic approaches and considerations.
What's more, Rosenfelder's book has an analysis (albeit by himself) of
one of his constructed languages, Kebreni. So, if you're looking
information on specific conlangs, it might be worth checking this book
out anyway. Also _Create Your Own Language_ by Holly Lislie (available
only as an e-book), though I'm not certain of it's scientific merit.
Of course, I can't say that any of these books are in German (though one
or two might be), but I imagine by your e-mail you have a firm grasp on
English. Either way, I hope those help, and good luck with the class.
All the best.
--
Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator
Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
Figmunds: figmunds.com <http://www.figmunds.com>
Game-Flush (A Humorous Video Game Site): game-flush.com
<http://www.game-flush.com>
On 2/23/2012 9:08 AM, Armin Buch wrote:
> Greetings!
>
> (This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
> of your conventions/rules here.)
>
> Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
> at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
> Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
> in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
> languages (whether natural or constructed).
>
> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
> hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
> lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
>
> I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
> this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
> online.
>
> Kind regards,
> Armin Buch
>
>
> PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
> them?
>
> Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
> Plansprachen
> Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
>
> Large, Andrew
> The artificial language movement
> Oxford& New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
>
> Meyers, Walter E.
> Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
> Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
>
> Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
> The Tsolyani language
> Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
>
> Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
> und Typologie
>
> Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
> Plansprachen I& II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
> Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133& 389-398.
>
> The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
> Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
> Language - Arika Okrent
>
> In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
> Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
>
> > From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
>
> A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
> Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
> Rogers
>
>
>
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5i. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Jen Runds" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 am ((PST))
On 23 February 2012 10:13, Arnt Richard Johansen <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 03:08:18PM +0100, Armin Buch wrote:
>
>> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
>> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
>> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
>> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
>> hints, or other relevant resources.
>
> Another addition to your list:
>
> Alan Libert, A Priori Artificial Languages (Languages of the World 24.
> Munich: Lincom Europa, 2000). ISBN 3895866679.
>
> Dr. Libert also has some other monographs on conlangs on Lincom Europa, but I
> haven't read them.
I've looked at a couple of the others and they tend to be very very
specific. Like the one on reflexives literally just goes through about
40 different conlangs (chosen somewhat at random, or so it seemed to
me) and describes how they do reflexives.
>
> --
> Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/
> Si hoc legere scis, nimium eruditionis habes.
Messages in this topic (10)
________________________________________________________________________
5j. Re: Linguistic literature on conlangs
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:58 am ((PST))
Oh, and don't forget to look through back issues of HolQed, the jouranl of
the Klingon Language Institute for some serious analyses of Klingon. I
remember one speculating that final glottal stop was evolving into a tonal
cotrast, just as an example of the sort of stuff you might find there.
Adam
On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 9:32 AM, J. M. DeSantis <[email protected]> wrote:
> Armin Buch,
>
> I'm not certain if you are looking for scientific literature on specific
> conlangs or on the creation of conlangs. If it's the former, the only book
> I have on a specific conlang is a small volume (about 200 pages) called
> _The Languages of Tolkien's Middle Earth_ by Ruth S. Noel (Tolkien is where
> I started). It offers more detail than the bits on pronunciation and
> writing in the back of _The Lord of the Rings_, and covers many of
> Tolkien's languages, but mostly Quenya and Sindarin. Though, at so few
> pages, I'm not certain it would entirely classify as "scientific" there is
> quite a bit of information in there.
>
> As for the second possibility (the creation of conlangs) other than some
> articles (most of which are on the front page of http://conlang.org/)
> I've read Mark Rosenfelder's book, _The Language Construction Kit_, which
> deals both with the non-linguist's approach to creating languages and some
> more scientific linguistic approaches and considerations. What's more,
> Rosenfelder's book has an analysis (albeit by himself) of one of his
> constructed languages, Kebreni. So, if you're looking information on
> specific conlangs, it might be worth checking this book out anyway. Also
> _Create Your Own Language_ by Holly Lislie (available only as an e-book),
> though I'm not certain of it's scientific merit.
>
> Of course, I can't say that any of these books are in German (though one
> or two might be), but I imagine by your e-mail you have a firm grasp on
> English. Either way, I hope those help, and good luck with the class. All
> the best.
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> J. M. DeSantis
> Writer - Illustrator
>
> Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
> Figmunds: figmunds.com <http://www.figmunds.com>
> Game-Flush (A Humorous Video Game Site): game-flush.com <
> http://www.game-flush.com>
>
>
> On 2/23/2012 9:08 AM, Armin Buch wrote:
>
>> Greetings!
>>
>> (This is my first post to the list. It is not my purpose to violate any
>> of your conventions/rules here.)
>>
>> Starting in mid-April, I am offering a course on constructed languages
>> at Tübingen University (Germany), with only as much emphasis on
>> Esperanto as needed (e.g. to study spontaneous, internal language change
>> in a conlang). The course is explicitly _not_ about international
>> languages (whether natural or constructed).
>>
>> To me it appears that research on conlangs is usually done in Esperanto,
>> on Esperanto/another auxlang, advocating it; and there is little else. I
>> am looking for this "else": scientific literature on constructed
>> languages, especially on fictional languages. I am grateful for any
>> hints, or other relevant resources. (I am already well equipped with
>> lists of conlangs, and descriptions of individual conlangs.)
>>
>> I am of course willing to share all my findings and results of teaching
>> this course to anyone interested. Course materials will be available
>> online.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Armin Buch
>>
>>
>> PS: This is my list so far. I haven't read them yet - does anyone know
>> them?
>>
>> Haupenthal, Reinhard [editor]
>> Plansprachen
>> Darmstadt: Wissenschaftliche Buchsellgeschaft, 1976
>>
>> Large, Andrew
>> The artificial language movement
>> Oxford& New York: Blackwell, 1985, 1987
>>
>>
>> Meyers, Walter E.
>> Aliens and linguists. Language study and science fiction.
>> Athens [Georgia]: University of Georgia Press, 1980
>>
>> Barker, Muhammad Ab-dal-Rahman
>> The Tsolyani language
>> Minneapolis: Barker, 1978
>>
>> Allesandro Bausani (1970): Geheim- und Universalsprachen: Entwicklung
>> und Typologie
>>
>> Detlev Blanke (1977): Zur wissenschaftlichen Beschäftigung mit
>> Plansprachen I& II, Zeitschrift für Phonetik, Sprachwissenschaft und
>> Kommunikationsforschung, vol. 30, p. 122-133& 389-398.
>>
>>
>> The following ones are suggestions from amazon:
>>
>> In the Land of Invented Languages: Esperanto Rock Stars, Klingon Poets,
>> Loglan Lovers, and the Mad Dreamers Who Tried to Build A Perfect
>> Language - Arika Okrent
>>
>> In the Land of Invented Languages: Adventures in Linguistic Creativity,
>> Madness, and Genius - Arika Okrent
>>
>> > From Elvish to Klingon: Exploring Invented Languages - Michael Adams
>>
>> A Dictionary of Made-Up Languages: From Adunaic to Elvish, Zaum to
>> Klingon -- The Anwa (Real) Origins of Invented Lexicons - Stephen D.
>> Rogers
>>
>>
>>
>>
Messages in this topic (10)
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