There are 21 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Game of Thrones - Dotheaki
From: Carsten Becker
2a. Re: Drac language (was: Conlangs in movies)
From: Adam Walker
3a. Іљте Ьлеј: Caricatur
From: Тоłе Ма
3b. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
From: Sam Stutter
3c. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
From: Tony Harris
3d. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
From: Тоłе Ма
3e. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
From: Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ
3f. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
From: Sam Stutter
4a. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
From: Carsten Becker
4b. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
From: Adam Walker
5a. Re: Random Ramblings on the Process of Coining Words
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
5b. Re: Random Ramblings on the Process of Coining Words
From: Padraic Brown
6a. OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Ph. D.
6b. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Patrick Dunn
6c. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: MorphemeAddict
6d. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Eugene Oh
6e. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Dan Sulani
6f. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Michael Everson
6g. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Michael Everson
6h. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
From: Ph. D.
7.1. Re: R2D2 language
From: Padraic Brown
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Game of Thrones - Dotheaki
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 8:38 am ((PDT))
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:25:46 +0100, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>Technically, yes, but the system is largely backward compatible. My life is
*that* exciting.
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 17:27:54 -0500, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>I copied what was on the box. ISBN-10 is still very much alive and well.
Sorry for nitpicking then, you two. ISBN-10 and 13 *are* backwards
compatible. You just get 978-/979- in front and a different check digit at
the end. Which usually confused parents and teachers who wanted to order
school books to no end, back when ISBN-13 (= EAN) was introduced while I was
working at Westermann.
C.
Messages in this topic (8)
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2a. Re: Drac language (was: Conlangs in movies)
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 9:25 am ((PDT))
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Fredrik Ekman <[email protected]> wrote:
> A. da Mek wrote:
>
> > Do you also analyze the written Drac text in the movie?
>
> Nope. As I said, it was rather half-hearted. As soon as I discovered that
> there was apparently no connection between Longyear's language and the
> original phrases in the movie, I gave up pretty quickly.
>
> (Of course, "no connection" is a bit strong. Obviously, someone had made
> the attempt to construct utterances that at least sounded similar to
> Longyear's Drac. "No grammatical or semantic connection" would be more to
> the point.)
>
> Fredrik
>
Ah, so like Paramount Klingon, where entire songs are written for the
dialog in which not a single word can be found in TKD.
Adam ya' jaj qe' 'o'...
Messages in this topic (3)
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3a. Іљте Ьлеј: Caricatur
Posted by: "Тоłе Ма"
[email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 11:18 am ((PDT))
Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
Тоłе
МаьіЛањелан
МаьіТањен
Іљте Ьлеј
___
«Панемі łе
δеьлеј
ҩнδеьомеłс» -
анƕомі
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
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3b. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 11:48 am ((PDT))
Apparently, yes, I can.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/65196689@N05/6896606300/in/photostream
Anyone else think this looks like spam?
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:08, "ТоłеМаьіЛањеланМаьіТањен"<[email protected]>
wrote:
> Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
> parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
>
> Тоłе
> МаьіЛањелан
> МаьіТањен
>
> Іљте Ьлеј
> ___
> «Панемі ƒłе
> δеьлеј
> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
> анƕомі
> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
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3c. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
Posted by: "Tony Harris" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 11:57 am ((PDT))
Hard to say. The entire text other than that one sentence came through
as HTML encoding...
On 04/03/2012 02:48 PM, Sam Stutter wrote:
> Apparently, yes, I can.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65196689@N05/6896606300/in/photostream
>
> Anyone else think this looks like spam?
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
>
> On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:08, "ТоłеМаьіЛањеланМаьіТањен"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
>> parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
>>
>> Тоłе
>> МаьіЛањелан
>> МаьіТањен
>>
>> ІљтеЬлеј
>> ___
>> «Панемі ƒłе
>> δеьлеј
>> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
>> анƕомі
>> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caric
Posted by: "Тоłе Ма"
[email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:10 pm ((PDT))
I'm downloading Thunderbird, Sam... Conlang.org's webmail didn't work
properly.
Тоłе
МаьіЛањелан
МаьіТањен
Іљте Ьлеј
___
«Панемі łе
δеьлеј
ҩнδеьомеłс» -
Анƕомі
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Sam Stutter
> Apparently, yes, I can.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65196689@N05/6896606300/in/photostream
>
> Anyone else think this looks like spam?
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
>
> On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:08,
> "ТоÅеÐаÑÑÐаÑеланÐаÑÑТаÑен"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
>> parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
>>
>> Тоłе
>> МаьіЛањелан
>> МаьіТањен
>>
>> Іљте Ьлеј
>> ___
>> «Панемі Æłе
>> δеьлеј
>> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
>> анƕомі
>> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
>
Messages in this topic (6)
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3e. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
Posted by: "Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:09 pm ((PDT))
On 03.04.2012 20:48, Sam Stutter wrote:
> Apparently, yes, I can.
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65196689@N05/6896606300/in/photostream
>
> Anyone else think this looks like spam?
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
>
> On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:08, "ТоłеМаьіЛањеланМаьіТањен"<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
>> parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
>>
>> Тоłе
>> МаьіЛањелан
>> МаьіТањен
>>
>> ІљтеЬлеј
>> ___
>> «Панемі ƒłе
>> δеьлеј
>> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
>> анƕомі
>> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Let's see if this isn't better.
May I use that drawing?
--
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
___
«Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
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3f. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 1:13 pm ((PDT))
Would send this offlist, but it's not playing ball. Uh, what do you want to use
it for?
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 3 Apr 2012, at 21:09, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 03.04.2012 20:48, Sam Stutter wrote:
>> Apparently, yes, I can.
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/65196689@N05/6896606300/in/photostream
>>
>> Anyone else think this looks like spam?
>>
>> Sam Stutter
>> [email protected]
>> "No e na'l cu barri"
>>
>> On 3 Apr 2012, at 19:08, "ТоłеМаьіЛањеланМаьіТањен"<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Are there anyone her capable of drawing a caricature of a man on a
>>> parliamentary pulpit berating his opposite politician?
>>>
>>> Тоłе
>>> МаьіЛањелан
>>> МаьіТањен
>>>
>>> ІљтеЬлеј
>>> ___
>>> «Панемі ƒłе
>>> δеьлеј
>>> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
>>> анƕомі
>>> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
> Let's see if this isn't better.
>
> May I use that drawing?
>
> --
> Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
>
> Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
> ___
> «Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
Messages in this topic (6)
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4a. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
Posted by: "Carsten Becker" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:02 pm ((PDT))
Converting it with http://people.w3.org/rishida/tools/conversion/, I get:
> Тоłе
> МаьіЛањелан
> МаьіТањен
>
> Іљте Ьлеј
> ___
> «Панемі ƒłе
> δеьлеј
> ҩнδеьомеłс» -
> анƕомі
Looks like mangled Cyrillic. Or like Koppa Dasao's conlang.
CB
Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Іљте Ьлеј: Caricature
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:34 pm ((PDT))
That's Delang alright.
Adam
2012/4/3 Carsten Becker <[email protected]>
> Converting it with http://people.w3.org/rishida/tools/conversion/, I get:
>
> > Тоłе
> > МаьіЛањелан
> > МаьіТањен
> >
> > Іљте Ьлеј
> > ___
> > «Панемі ƒłе
> > δеьлеј
> > ҩнδеьомеłс» -
> > анƕомі
>
> Looks like mangled Cyrillic. Or like Koppa Dasao's conlang.
>
> CB
>
Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Re: Random Ramblings on the Process of Coining Words
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 12:33 pm ((PDT))
Hallo conlangers!
On Mon, 2 Apr 2012 21:37:29 +0100 Sam Stutter wrote:
> On 2 Apr 2012, at 20:46, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
>
> > Hallo conlangers!
> [...]
> > A smooth flow of a conlang is indeed not easy to achieve. Many
> > beginners' conlangs feel as if they were assembled from LEGO(R)
> > bricks or the like - the morphology is cookie-cutter regular
> > with junctures wide open, the words bite each other, the whole
> > thing sounds like gibberish or Pig Latin and not like an
> > organically grown language. I admit that avoiding this and
> > coming up with a coherent, beautiful conlang is difficult.
> > Languages such as Quenya or Kēlen were not cobbled together in
> > a fortnight; they were honed and refined over *years*.
>
> We've all been there.
Sure. My first conlangs were pretty newbish, modeled on what
natlangs I knew then: German, English and Latin. I did not even
make up proper phonologies, I just used what kinds of sounds I
knew and felt right to me. Also, "diachronic developments"
basically broke down to random changes of vowels and sometimes
consonants, and languages separated by 12,000 years of "history"
resembling each other about as closely as German and English.
It was only later, in the early 2000s, when I read my way through
linguistics textbooks, that I learned to do fictional languages
"properly". Basically, the impulse for this self-study of
linguistics was a phase when I perused Ardalambion to acquaint
myself with Tolkien's languages, and saw how much linguistic
sophistication was in there. That was early in the year 2000.
At about the same time, I began following the discussions on
CONLANG, and I saw what kind of sophisticated stuff people were
doing there.
That was the point when I decided to go to the library, and read
every textbook they had. I also worked my way through dozens of
grammar sketches from all over this world and several others in
order to get a sense of the vast diversity of languages, both
natural and constructed. However, I avoided the temptation of
building everything I found into a single language, and made a
decision about what to use in what was to become Albic and what
not. I also soon found out that doing my very own thing was
infinitely better than basing it on Sindarin, as I tried when I
started with it.
Also, by the wayside, I discovered the fascinating world of
historical linguistics, which has become a hobby of mine, both
as a source of inspiration for my conlangs and as a "thing of
its own".
> > You once wrote that you design languages without defining a
> > phonology, perhaps that is part of the problem? It is rules
> > of phonology that give a language a coherent sound and smoothes
> > out the seams between the morphemes. Even such highly regular
> > languages as Turkish have a coherent sound because there are
> > well-defined phonological rules.
>
> I find "hearing the speakers" before actually coining any words really
> helps. I know that there *is* the right sound out there, because I can hear
> it being spoken, it's just like trying to remember that dream you had last
> night. It's more of a process of holistic reconstruction rather than top-up
> construction (even though that's what you're *really* doing).
Yes. It is reasonable to start with a rough idea of what the
language should sound like; but casting this notion into an
actual phonology is not always easy. It was actually quite
straightforward with Roman Germanech, but required more fine
tuning in Old Albic, where I still discover new phonological
rules - only a few months ago, I found out that Proto-Hesperic
*/s/ has become /d/ after nasals and liquids, for instance.
> [...]
>
> > Right. And the best way to emulate this in a conlang is to
> > start with a "protolang", i.e. another conlang that is then
> > subjected to a simulated linguistic history with sound changes,
> > semantic shifts and the like. At least that is the way to go
> > if you want something naturalistic; it makes much less sense
> > with an auxlang or a loglang.
>
> Well, maybe not, I've never done that. But going through a dictionary and
> just randomly coining words is only going to get you so far.
Indeed, it doesn't get one far. I tried it; it did not work well
for me. I know that some people program scripts which churn out
roots which they then assign to lists of vocabulary entries, but
that's not for me. I want my words to sound "right". Working on
Old Albic or Roman Germanech feels more like *discovering* an
existing but unknown reality than like *inventing* something with
no prior existence.
> [...]
>
> > Yes, that is true. Poetry is a good performance test for a conlang,
> > better than primers. So far, I have not written actual poetry in
> > Old Albic, but a prose version of a creation myth is under
> > construction, and it turned out that writing such texts is a good
> > way of rounding out a conlang.
>
> I would say not just poetry, but any sort of writing which might have
> particular concultural significance, like creation myths, folk stories and
> declarations of independence.
Absolutely! I found that working on the creation myth is much
more satisfying and helpful in working out the language than
just translating Bible portions or other texts that have nothing
to do with the conculture. Such original texts give an insight
into the minds of the speakers of the language that translations
just cannot give.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (11)
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5b. Re: Random Ramblings on the Process of Coining Words
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 4:58 pm ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 4/3/12, Jörg Rhiemeier <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > So far, I have not written actual poetry in
> > > Old Albic, but a prose version of a creation myth is under
> > > construction, and it turned out that writing such texts is a good
> > > way of rounding out a conlang.
> >
> > I would say not just poetry, but any sort of writing which might have
> > particular concultural significance, like creation myths, folk stories
> > and declarations of independence.
>
> Absolutely! I found that working on the creation myth
> is much
> more satisfying and helpful in working out the language
> than
> just translating Bible portions or other texts that have
> nothing to do with the conculture.
Right -- though just these can be every bit as satisfying if the Bible is
part of the culture! (Same goes for any text one might translate.)
> Such original texts give an
> insight
> into the minds of the speakers of the language that
> translations just cannot give.
Yep. This kind of exercise can lead to all kinds of interesting discoveries
about the culture and, naturally, can result in considerable amounts of
newly discovered words.
I should like to see the O.A. story when you get it properly discovered!
Padraic
Messages in this topic (11)
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6a. OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 7:07 pm ((PDT))
A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
photograph and asked if I could at least tell
what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
image here:
http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg
Thanks,
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (8)
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6b. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 7:32 pm ((PDT))
My Hebrew isn't good enough to make it all out, but if you turn the card
upside down, it looks very much like written Hebrew. I can recognize quite
a few letters, but I'm not used to reading handwritten cursive Hebrew.
You'll notice, too, if you turn the card upside down, it begins 54. And
there's a clear exclamation point at the end of the second line.
--Patrick
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Ph. D. <[email protected]> wrote:
> A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
> photograph and asked if I could at least tell
> what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
> Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
> certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
>
> Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
> image here:
>
> http://www.phillipdriscoll.**com/HebYid.jpg<http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg>
>
> Thanks,
> --Ph. D.
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (8)
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6c. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Tue Apr 3, 2012 9:34 pm ((PDT))
On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
> My Hebrew isn't good enough to make it all out, but if you turn the card
> upside down, it looks very much like written Hebrew.
ditto
stevo
> I can recognize quite
> a few letters, but I'm not used to reading handwritten cursive Hebrew.
>
> You'll notice, too, if you turn the card upside down, it begins 54. And
> there's a clear exclamation point at the end of the second line.
>
> --Patrick
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Ph. D. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
> > photograph and asked if I could at least tell
> > what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
> > Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
> > certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
> >
> > Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
> > image here:
> >
> > http://www.phillipdriscoll.**com/HebYid.jpg<
> http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg>
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --Ph. D.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<
> http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<
> http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2
> >.
>
Messages in this topic (8)
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6d. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Eugene Oh" [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 12:36 am ((PDT))
Or it could be Gujarati.
Eugene
Sent from my iPhone
On 4 Apr 2012, at 05:34, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Patrick Dunn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My Hebrew isn't good enough to make it all out, but if you turn the card
>> upside down, it looks very much like written Hebrew.
>
>
> ditto
>
> stevo
>
>
>> I can recognize quite
>> a few letters, but I'm not used to reading handwritten cursive Hebrew.
>>
>> You'll notice, too, if you turn the card upside down, it begins 54. And
>> there's a clear exclamation point at the end of the second line.
>>
>> --Patrick
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Ph. D. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
>>> photograph and asked if I could at least tell
>>> what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
>>> Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
>>> certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
>>>
>>> Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
>>> image here:
>>>
>>> http://www.phillipdriscoll.**com/HebYid.jpg<
>> http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> --Ph. D.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
>> order from Finishing Line
>> Press<
>> http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
>> and
>> Amazon<
>> http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2
>>> .
>>
Messages in this topic (8)
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6e. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Dan Sulani" [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 12:44 am ((PDT))
Hi all!
On 4, April, Ph.D. wrote:
>A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
> photograph and asked if I could at least tell
> what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
> Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
> certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
>
> Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
> image here:
>
> http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg
It's Yiddish!
I agree with MorphemeAddict and Patrick Dunn that it is displayed
upside down.
The giveaway that it is not Hebrew, but Yiddish (which is also generally
written
in Hebrew letters) is the third word on the top line: dalet-'ayin-final mem.
To my knowledge, no such word exists in Hebrew. But in Yiddish, it is
/dem/. (In Yiddish, the letter 'ayin is frequently used to express /e/.).
This is, as in German IIRC, the dative form of the definite article.
My command of Yiddish is not the world's best, but I will attempt a
translation.
The first two words in the top row are a place name: Petah Tikva
(a town here in Israel). I'm not sure about the the rest of the line ---
it looks like "10th" (possibly "10/en" ie 10/ 'ayin-final nun).
Perhaps the 54 is a year, in which case it would be "the 10th (day? month?)
(19)54".
The next line reads (as far as I can tell)
"For (something --- I don't recognize the word) memento (although the last
part of this word is written somewhat garbled, "memento" seems, IMHO, the
best fit).
Next line:
could possibly be "shul" = synagogue (something)(something) "our"
Next line:
"picture"
Last line:
(signed) Perl Gntss (Ganz? Gentz?)
Hope this helps.
Dan Sulani
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
likehsna rtem zuv tikuhnuh auag inuvuz vaka'a.
A word is an awesome thing.
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
6f. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Michael Everson" [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 1:15 am ((PDT))
On 4 Apr 2012, at 08:35, Eugene Oh wrote:
> Or it could be Gujarati.
No, the script is clearly Hebrew.
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
6g. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Michael Everson" [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 1:26 am ((PDT))
On 4 Apr 2012, at 08:43, Dan Sulani wrote:
> It's Yiddish!
>
> The giveaway that it is not Hebrew, but Yiddish (which is also generally
> written
> in Hebrew letters) is the third word on the top line: dalet-'ayin-final mem.
> To my knowledge, no such word exists in Hebrew. But in Yiddish, it is
> /dem/. (In Yiddish, the letter 'ayin is frequently used to express /e/.).
> This is, as in German IIRC, the dative form of the definite article.
>
> My command of Yiddish is not the world's best, but I will attempt a
> translation.
Of which the transliteration
Perah Tikva, dem 10/VI
[that is, the tenth of June; the 54 seens too far away to be the year]
Tsum '[ayh]gen 'ayntsel[?]!
shul a[?] tsu 'unzer
bild
Perl Gnts
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
6h. Re: OT: Hebrew letters?
Posted by: "Ph. D." [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 5:01 am ((PDT))
A big "thank you" to all of you who took a look at
this. It's much appreciated.
--Ph. D.
Dan Sulani wrote:
> Hi all!
> On 4, April, Ph.D. wrote:
>
>> A friend emailed me a scan from the back of a
>> photograph and asked if I could at least tell
>> what language it is. It looks to me like handwritten
>> Hebrew letters, but my friend says he's almost
>> certain it's not Hebrew or Yiddish.
>>
>> Perhaps someone here can help? I've put the
>> image here:
>>
>> http://www.phillipdriscoll.com/HebYid.jpg
>
> It's Yiddish!
>
> I agree with MorphemeAddict and Patrick Dunn that it is displayed
> upside down.
>
> The giveaway that it is not Hebrew, but Yiddish (which is also generally
> written
> in Hebrew letters) is the third word on the top line:
> dalet-'ayin-final mem.
> To my knowledge, no such word exists in Hebrew. But in Yiddish, it is
> /dem/. (In Yiddish, the letter 'ayin is frequently used to express /e/.).
> This is, as in German IIRC, the dative form of the definite article.
>
> My command of Yiddish is not the world's best, but I will attempt a
> translation.
>
> The first two words in the top row are a place name: Petah Tikva
> (a town here in Israel). I'm not sure about the the rest of the line
> --- it looks like "10th" (possibly "10/en" ie 10/ 'ayin-final nun).
> Perhaps the 54 is a year, in which case it would be "the 10th (day?
> month?)
> (19)54".
>
> The next line reads (as far as I can tell)
> "For (something --- I don't recognize the word) memento (although the
> last
> part of this word is written somewhat garbled, "memento" seems, IMHO, the
> best fit).
>
> Next line:
> could possibly be "shul" = synagogue (something)(something) "our"
>
> Next line:
> "picture"
>
> Last line:
> (signed) Perl Gntss (Ganz? Gentz?)
>
> Hope this helps.
> Dan Sulani
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> likehsna rtem zuv tikuhnuh auag inuvuz vaka'a.
>
> A word is an awesome thing.
>
>
Messages in this topic (8)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
7.1. Re: R2D2 language
Posted by: "Padraic Brown" [email protected]
Date: Wed Apr 4, 2012 5:23 am ((PDT))
--- On Tue, 4/3/12, Eric Christopherson <[email protected]> wrote:
> I don't mean to be harsh to the list, but I wouldn't expect
> Karen and her friends to go on and on about how
> unprofessional and shallow Conlang members' fiction writing
> is (especially of the amateurs among us). Nor would I expect
> Conlang members to be quite as critical of other members'
> beginning conlangs as they are of Mando'a. Constructively
> critical, yes, but not so dismissive.
In general, I agree that Conlang members are typically not dismissive
without good reason. But I think there are good reasons in cases like this.
First, this isn't just some hobbyist tinkering with different grammatical
forms. It's not some beginner's first try at making a language. This
language is a **product** that has been specifically designed for a market
and has been sold and bought on that market. It is therefore subject to
the same variety of visceral and rational criticisms that, for example, a
brand of cereal or a new line of trucks is subject to. Second, I don't
think anyone here has been particularly unprofessional or shallow.
The criticisms I've read so far I think have been fairly leveled. I haven't
read anything like "oh, that's just stupid" or "the author doesn't know
what she's doing" -- nothing of the sort! The comments I've seen all point
to valid problems of presentation (several people have noted that the
grammar description was left unedited, for example) or grammatical aspects
that just don't make sense (like the bit about verb tense being optional
and based solely on contact with species that require it).
And for that matter, I've read several comments praising various aspects
of the grammar that are indeed interesting (such as the optional tenses! --
just not the nonsensical rationale). I don't think there is anything at all
wrong or unprofessional or shallow about panning an inferior **product**.
I'm not ashamed of saying, quite emphatically, that I know of many conlangs
here on the list that are far better than the given one, much better
built. For all the effort that may or may not have gone into the language,
it seems to me that it could have been rather better.
Padraic
Messages in this topic (31)
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