There are 20 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Happy Ides of April!
From: R A Brown
1b. Re: Happy Ides of April!
From: [email protected]
1c. Re: Happy Ides of April!
From: neo gu
2a. Re: Fith lexicon
From: MorphemeAddict
2b. Re: Fith lexicon
From: Miles Forster
2c. Re: Fith lexicon
From: MorphemeAddict
2d. Re: Fith lexicon
From: Miles Forster
3a. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: BPJ
3b. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ
3c. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ
3d. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Patrick Dunn
3e. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ
3f. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Tony Harris
3g. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: George Corley
3h. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Adam Walker
3i. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Roger Mills
3j. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Lee
3k. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
From: Charlie Brickner
4. Destroying the noun/verb distinction
From: Matthew A. Gurevitch
5a. Re: Context-sensitive conlangs
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Re: Happy Ides of April!
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:46 am ((PDT))
On 15/04/2012 13:02, taliesin the storyteller wrote:
> On 2012-04-15 08:40, R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>>
>> I know this has been discussed before, but what is
>> considered the ideal width for such text?
>
> I do notice that most of the css use em's to scale things
> (making them font-dependent,
>
> table.navbar {border-collapse:collapse; border:0;
> font-size:0.9em; border-left:1px solid blue; }
Good point. Maybe I should use points rather than ems.
> while the width of the content is set using pixels:
>
> .content { background: #fff5ee; margin-left: auto;
> margin-right: auto; padding:10px; width: 860px;
> text-align: left; overflow: auto; z-index: 1; }
>
> In the olden times when I learnt text processing in high
> school (with Word Perfect!) the widest width of any
> column of text was 66 *characters*. That does not convert
> into 66 *ems* though as while an em is the width of the
> M, the width of a character was an average of all widths
> IIRC, so a bit less than an em.
OK - I'll think on it.
> You could also try to replace the "width: 860px;" with
> "max-width: 860px;", which should do as it says on the
> tin.
I've done that now :)
Thanks for feedback.
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: Happy Ides of April!
Posted by: "[email protected]" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:38 am ((PDT))
taliesin the storyteller <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> In the olden times when I learnt text processing in high school (with
> Word Perfect!) the widest width of any column of text was 66
> *characters*. That does not convert into 66 *ems* though as while an
> em is the width of the M, the width of a character was an average of
> all widths IIRC, so a bit less than an em.
Stricktly speaking, an "em" is a square of the point size, so a 12 pt
em is 12 points wide, an 18 pt em is 18 points wide. It's not necessarily
the width of the M character.
I was taught years ago, that the optimal line length for text is 1.5 times
the length of the lowercase alphabet.
--Ph. D.
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
1c. Re: Happy Ides of April!
Posted by: "neo gu" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:51 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, 15 Apr 2012 14:02:52 +0200, taliesin the storyteller
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2012-04-15 08:40, R A Brown wrote:
>> On 15/04/2012 00:10, neo gu wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 08:15:57 +0100, R A
>>> Brown<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/index.html
>>>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/OrthoAndPhono.html
>>>
>>> I took a quick look; it seems you've been busy! The one
>>> comment I have is that the text is wider than my screen,
>>> so I have to scroll back and forth to read it.
>>
>> Ah, it's a lot less narrower than mine ;)
>>
>> I know this has been discussed before, but what is
>> considered the ideal width for such text?
>
>I do notice that most of the css use em's to scale things (making them
>font-dependent,
>
>table.navbar {border-collapse:collapse; border:0; font-size:0.9em;
>border-left:1px solid blue; }
>
>while the width of the content is set using pixels:
>
>.content {
> background: #fff5ee;
> margin-left: auto;
> margin-right: auto;
> padding:10px;
> width: 860px;
> text-align: left;
> overflow: auto;
> z-index: 1;
>}
>
>In the olden times when I learnt text processing in high school (with
>Word Perfect!) the widest width of any column of text was 66
>*characters*. That does not convert into 66 *ems* though as while an em
>is the width of the M, the width of a character was an average of all
>widths IIRC, so a bit less than an em.
>
>You could also try to replace the "width: 860px;" with "max-width:
>860px;", which should do as it says on the tin.
>
>neo gu, can your browser scale pages with ctrl-plus and ctrl-minus?
>
>
>t.
I can change font size (one browser uses Ctrl +/- for that), which doesn't
help in this case.
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: Fith lexicon
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:13 am ((PDT))
I just made it public.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad3BZb3VidEgyUXc
stevo
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Miles Forster <[email protected]> wrote:
> Link?
> Googling didn't bring it up for me.
>
> Am 15.04.2012 05:12, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>
> I just uploaded my Fith lexicon to Googles Documents. I would like to know
>> if others can access it there. It's called "Fith lexicon using online
>> translator" and it started as an Excel spreadsheet. I think Google
>> converted it to a different format, but I'm not sure.
>>
>> stevo
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:51 PM,
>> MorphemeAddict<lytlesw@gmail.**com<[email protected]>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Using the online Fith translator and the grammar notes, I now have a Fith
>>> lexicon again. It's probably not quite as good as the one that used to be
>>> online, but it'll have to do me for now.
>>>
>>> stevo
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: Fith lexicon
Posted by: "Miles Forster" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:01 pm ((PDT))
Thank you, this is useful.
Now I only need to know more about the grammar.
For example, how are relative clauses formed, where do I place
adpositional phrases, what are the words for wh-questions and how do I
use them, how do I construct subclauses as in "I know that you went to
the market", are there connectives and which are they, etc. In short, I
have no clue about the details of the language, and I would really
appreciate more information, which only the author can give me/us.
—Miles
Am 15.04.2012 19:13, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
> I just made it public.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad3BZb3VidEgyUXc
>
> stevo
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Miles Forster<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Link?
>> Googling didn't bring it up for me.
>>
>> Am 15.04.2012 05:12, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>>
>> I just uploaded my Fith lexicon to Googles Documents. I would like to know
>>> if others can access it there. It's called "Fith lexicon using online
>>> translator" and it started as an Excel spreadsheet. I think Google
>>> converted it to a different format, but I'm not sure.
>>>
>>> stevo
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:51 PM,
>>> MorphemeAddict<lytlesw@gmail.**com<[email protected]>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Using the online Fith translator and the grammar notes, I now have a Fith
>>>> lexicon again. It's probably not quite as good as the one that used to be
>>>> online, but it'll have to do me for now.
>>>>
>>>> stevo
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
>> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>>
--
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2c. Re: Fith lexicon
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:13 pm ((PDT))
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Miles Forster <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thank you, this is useful.
>
> Now I only need to know more about the grammar.
> For example, how are relative clauses formed, where do I place
> adpositional phrases, what are the words for wh-questions and how do I use
> them, how do I construct subclauses as in "I know that you went to the
> market", are there connectives and which are they, etc. In short, I have no
> clue about the details of the language, and I would really appreciate more
> information, which only the author can give me/us.
>
I found this very helpful, but maybe not sufficient for your needs.
http://www.langmaker.com/fith.htm
stevo
> —Miles
>
> Am 15.04.2012 19:13, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>
>> I just made it public.
>> https://docs.google.com/**spreadsheet/ccc?key=**
>> 0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad**3BZb3VidEgyUXc<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad3BZb3VidEgyUXc>
>>
>> stevo
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Miles Forster<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Link?
>>> Googling didn't bring it up for me.
>>>
>>> Am 15.04.2012 05:12, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>>>
>>> I just uploaded my Fith lexicon to Googles Documents. I would like to
>>> know
>>>
>>>> if others can access it there. It's called "Fith lexicon using online
>>>> translator" and it started as an Excel spreadsheet. I think Google
>>>> converted it to a different format, but I'm not sure.
>>>>
>>>> stevo
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:51 PM, MorphemeAddict<lytlesw@gmail.****com<
>>>> [email protected]>>
>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Using the online Fith translator and the grammar notes, I now have a
>>>> Fith
>>>>
>>>>> lexicon again. It's probably not quite as good as the one that used to
>>>>> be
>>>>> online, but it'll have to do me for now.
>>>>>
>>>>> stevo
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
>>> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
2d. Re: Fith lexicon
Posted by: "Miles Forster" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:19 pm ((PDT))
I have obviously already read that page several times. It's indeed not
sufficient.
—Miles
Am 15.04.2012 23:12, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Miles Forster<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, this is useful.
>>
>> Now I only need to know more about the grammar.
>> For example, how are relative clauses formed, where do I place
>> adpositional phrases, what are the words for wh-questions and how do I use
>> them, how do I construct subclauses as in "I know that you went to the
>> market", are there connectives and which are they, etc. In short, I have no
>> clue about the details of the language, and I would really appreciate more
>> information, which only the author can give me/us.
>>
> I found this very helpful, but maybe not sufficient for your needs.
> http://www.langmaker.com/fith.htm
>
> stevo
>
>
>> —Miles
>>
>> Am 15.04.2012 19:13, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>>
>>> I just made it public.
>>> https://docs.google.com/**spreadsheet/ccc?key=**
>>> 0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad**3BZb3VidEgyUXc<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am5GCuHvF7ACdGVUaUJwaHZJOEhad3BZb3VidEgyUXc>
>>>
>>> stevo
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 9:33 AM, Miles Forster<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Link?
>>>> Googling didn't bring it up for me.
>>>>
>>>> Am 15.04.2012 05:12, schrieb MorphemeAddict:
>>>>
>>>> I just uploaded my Fith lexicon to Googles Documents. I would like to
>>>> know
>>>>
>>>>> if others can access it there. It's called "Fith lexicon using online
>>>>> translator" and it started as an Excel spreadsheet. I think Google
>>>>> converted it to a different format, but I'm not sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> stevo
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:51 PM, MorphemeAddict<lytlesw@gmail.****com<
>>>>> [email protected]>>
>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the online Fith translator and the grammar notes, I now have a
>>>>> Fith
>>>>>
>>>>>> lexicon again. It's probably not quite as good as the one that used to
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> online, but it'll have to do me for now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> stevo
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
>>>> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>>>>
>>>>
>> --
>> .i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
>> .i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
>>
--
.i da xamgu ganse fi no na'ebo lo risna
.i lo vajrai cu nonselji'u lo kanla
Messages in this topic (7)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
3a. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "BPJ" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:05 pm ((PDT))
On 2012-04-14 13:30, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ wrote:
> How does your society treat mentally retarded and
> muliti-handicapped people?
>
1) How do you define those two terms? Or don't!
2) How do the people covered by those terms form a natural set?
They probably don't!
Wait, I think I misunderstood the question. What's 'muliti' disease?
I fully appreciate that a conculture can be as rude or inhumane
as the author fancies without the author endorsing or promoting
rudeness and inhumanity in the real world, but I do expect people
to not be rude when *discussing* even such concultures.
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
3b. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:57 pm ((PDT))
On 15.04.2012 23:04, BPJ wrote:
> On 2012-04-14 13:30, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ wrote:
>> How does your society treat mentally retarded and
>> muliti-handicapped people?
>>
>
> 1) How do you define those two terms? Or don't!
Among the Illomi they're defined as soulless or toddlers, and as people
with withered soul or children
> 2) How do the people covered by those terms form a natural set?
> They probably don't!
As the soulless are usually euthanized in Illte, unless their parents
want them as pets, one could claim that they do form a natural set.
>
> Wait, I think I misunderstood the question. What's 'muliti' disease?
In our world that's a disease called typo. ;)
>
> I fully appreciate that a conculture can be as rude or inhumane
> as the author fancies without the author endorsing or promoting
> rudeness and inhumanity in the real world, but I do expect people
> to not be rude when *discussing* even such concultures.
--
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
___
«Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
3c. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:43 pm ((PDT))
Seeing that most conlangers here would rather talk politics when
confronted with this topic, I have to wonder what those of you that also
conworlds do with people like my youngest brother, or even worse, those
that are worse off than he is.
Do your societies hide them away and refuse to acknowledge that not
everyone are born "normal"? (The former Romanian way...)
And where does your conworld societies draw the line? Are afflictions
like blindness or stuttering reasons to dismiss certain people as
mentally retarded? Or what about the inability to spell "simlpe" words
like 'simple'?
How does your society treat mentally retarded and multi-handicapped people?
To those of you that find this topic a burning thorn in the bunghole,
our so-called western civilized society hasn't exactly treated people
who deviate from the "norm" civilized, and we still have a billion miles
more to go before we can call ourselves truly civilized. And that's all
the politics I'm going to talk about this topic. Now, if any of you
still wants to do something about this topic in the real world, grab
some politician heads and thunk them.
On 14.04.2012 13:30, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ wrote:
> How does your society treat mentally retarded and muliti-handicapped
> people?
>
--
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
___
«Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
3d. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:14 pm ((PDT))
In some sciences, such as psychology and biology, the Oasa are in advance
of us. They have chromosomal surgery, for example, that fixes many
congenital defects, and they have no ethical compunctions about using it.
They have therapeutic techniques that can also cure sociopathy,
depression, and bipolar disorder with an extremely high rate of success.
They do not regard mild autism (Asperger's) as a disease, nor do they
consider a lot of our "personality disorders" to be in need of treatment.
Impairments of the senses caused by accident or the rare unfixable
congenital cause are not regarded as shameful or worthy of tabu *or*
excessive comment. An Oasa might very well refer to someone as "that guy
with no eyes" just as we might say "that blond guy."
If there were a civilization nearby that believed that the mentally
impaired had no souls, the Oasa would abandon their current policy of
peaceful diplomacy and dust off a few hundred year old traditions of
"conquer the ridiculous fools to save them from their own folly."
Fortunately, there isn't.
They do regard rudeness as the much greater flaw than mental impairment
(calling someone "stupid" is barely an insult; calling them "rude" is close
to fighting words). If someone were rude and then tried to hide that
rudeness behind offended bluster about politics, a less cultured Oasa might
respond with the worst insult in the language:
"Eat it."
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ <
[email protected]> wrote:
> Seeing that most conlangers here would rather talk politics when
> confronted with this topic, I have to wonder what those of you that also
> conworlds do with people like my youngest brother, or even worse, those
> that are worse off than he is.
> Do your societies hide them away and refuse to acknowledge that not
> everyone are born "normal"? (The former Romanian way...)
> And where does your conworld societies draw the line? Are afflictions like
> blindness or stuttering reasons to dismiss certain people as mentally
> retarded? Or what about the inability to spell "simlpe" words like 'simple'?
>
>
> How does your society treat mentally retarded and multi-handicapped people?
>
>
> To those of you that find this topic a burning thorn in the bunghole, our
> so-called western civilized society hasn't exactly treated people who
> deviate from the "norm" civilized, and we still have a billion miles more
> to go before we can call ourselves truly civilized. And that's all the
> politics I'm going to talk about this topic. Now, if any of you still wants
> to do something about this topic in the real world, grab some politician
> heads and thunk them.
>
>
> On 14.04.2012 13:30, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ wrote:
>
>> How does your society treat mentally retarded and muliti-handicapped
>> people?
>>
>>
> --
> Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
>
> Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
> http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
> ___
> «Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
3e. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:22 pm ((PDT))
On 16.04.2012 01:14, Patrick Dunn wrote:
> They do regard rudeness as the much greater flaw than mental impairment
> (calling someone "stupid" is barely an insult; calling them "rude" is close
> to fighting words). If someone were rude and then tried to hide that
> rudeness behind offended bluster about politics, a less cultured Oasa might
> respond with the worst insult in the language:
>
> "Eat it."
>
Interesting insult. What's the etymology behind it?
--
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
___
«Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
Messages in this topic (24)
________________________________________________________________________
3f. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Tony Harris" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 4:43 pm ((PDT))
This is a topic I have wrestled with quite a bit in regards to Alurhsa
civilization. First I believe the high rates of assorted disabilities we see
in Earth humans these days are in some way a result of all the ways humanity
pollutes and modifies the environment and the food supply. Since that would
be sacrilege to the Alurhsa, there is less of the conditions you're referring
to.
That said, they do occur. The Alurhsa do have a high technology level in some
areas, medicine among them, and a quite different biology in some ways, so I
feel many of the physical issues like blindness, deafness, and assorted
paralysis issues are curable.
Beyond that, I'm still working out just how this plays out in Alurhsa culture,
so thanks for bringing the topic up so I get thinking about it again.
Sent from my ASUS Eee Pad
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ <[email protected]> wrote:
>Seeing that most conlangers here would rather talk politics when
>confronted with this topic, I have to wonder what those of you that also
>conworlds do with people like my youngest brother, or even worse, those
>that are worse off than he is.
>Do your societies hide them away and refuse to acknowledge that not
>everyone are born "normal"? (The former Romanian way...)
>And where does your conworld societies draw the line? Are afflictions
>like blindness or stuttering reasons to dismiss certain people as
>mentally retarded? Or what about the inability to spell "simlpe" words
>like 'simple'?
>
>
>How does your society treat mentally retarded and multi-handicapped people?
>
>
>To those of you that find this topic a burning thorn in the bunghole,
>our so-called western civilized society hasn't exactly treated people
>who deviate from the "norm" civilized, and we still have a billion miles
>more to go before we can call ourselves truly civilized. And that's all
>the politics I'm going to talk about this topic. Now, if any of you
>still wants to do something about this topic in the real world, grab
>some politician heads and thunk them.
>
>On 14.04.2012 13:30, Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ wrote:
>> How does your society treat mentally retarded and muliti-handicapped
>> people?
>>
>
>--
>Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
>
>Δебјані ҩнІљте Ьлеј
>http://illte.conlang.org/ http://delang.conlang.org/
>___
>«Панемі ƒłе δеьлеј ҩнδеьомеłс» - анƕомі
Messages in this topic (24)
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3g. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:23 pm ((PDT))
Way back when I was still doing anything with the Xala and their conworld,
I decided that the cloned Xala would consider diabled individuals
(defective) and they would be honor-bound to commit suicide if able
or euthanized otherwise. I haven't really thought very far in-depth in
other concultures, though I suppose I should. My current fantasy world
might provide some interesting (and horrific) scenarios, considering the
widespread use of undead slaves.
Messages in this topic (24)
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3h. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Adam Walker" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 6:42 pm ((PDT))
The Carraxans are Medieval, just pre-Rennaisance humans, so their attitudes
are typical of the time.
The Tvern El, would value them as individuals made in the image of the
Creator just the same as anyone else.
The Graavgaaln would kill them, just as they kill the weak and the sickly.
I would have been killed if I were Graavgaaln, when my asthma manifested at
age two.
I'm not really sure how my other races -- the Trelkairni, the Xttg, the
Fthsaisthf, the Taisirans, the B-G-2-3 deal with such individuals, but I
suspect the Trelkairni may devote them to the temple of The Mother. And I
think the Alelliawulians probably do everything possible to make sure they
live, because I know they have a sort of horror of "broken" families --
those without a complete set of siblings find it difficult to find mates.
Adam
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
> Way back when I was still doing anything with the Xala and their conworld,
> I decided that the cloned Xala would consider diabled individuals
> (defective) and they would be honor-bound to commit suicide if able
> or euthanized otherwise. I haven't really thought very far in-depth in
> other concultures, though I suppose I should. My current fantasy world
> might provide some interesting (and horrific) scenarios, considering the
> widespread use of undead slaves.
>
Messages in this topic (24)
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3i. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Roger Mills" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:44 pm ((PDT))
I haven't thought about this in a long time, but I do know that after The
Destruction (the Gwr's nuclear war of 750+ yrs ago) when exposure to radiation
caused a lot of stillbirths and birth deformities (some verging, in the opinion
of the times, on the monstrous) newborns were allowed to die if they were not
totally viable, and in many cases doctors/midwives quietly killed them.....That
is no longer the practice, needless to say; medical science has advanced to the
point where, as here, severe deformities are detected in utero via ultrasound
etc. and abortion is required. Because of the radiation, even today a large
percentage of the population, both male and female, are infertile, and this is
a serious problem for the Gwr, as they would like to see their population
increase to what it was before The Destruction, when they were the majority and
ruled the roost economically. But that is unlikely to happen. As it is, a
fertile and an infertile are
discouraged from marrying. Two infertiles OK.
I haven't really thought about the situation amongst the Kash...
Messages in this topic (24)
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3j. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Lee" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:50 pm ((PDT))
Interesting. How would the Alelliawulians treat families who had a known
pregnancy result in miscarriage or stillbirth?
Lee
________________________________
From: Adam Walker
Sent: 4/15/2012 8:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
The Carraxans are Medieval, just pre-Rennaisance humans, so their attitudes
are typical of the time.
The Tvern El, would value them as individuals made in the image of the
Creator just the same as anyone else.
The Graavgaaln would kill them, just as they kill the weak and the sickly.
I would have been killed if I were Graavgaaln, when my asthma manifested at
age two.
I'm not really sure how my other races -- the Trelkairni, the Xttg, the
Fthsaisthf, the Taisirans, the B-G-2-3 deal with such individuals, but I
suspect the Trelkairni may devote them to the temple of The Mother. And I
think the Alelliawulians probably do everything possible to make sure they
live, because I know they have a sort of horror of "broken" families --
those without a complete set of siblings find it difficult to find mates.
Adam
On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 7:23 PM, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
> Way back when I was still doing anything with the Xala and their conworld,
> I decided that the cloned Xala would consider diabled individuals
> (defective) and they would be honor-bound to commit suicide if able
> or euthanized otherwise. I haven't really thought very far in-depth in
> other concultures, though I suppose I should. My current fantasy world
> might provide some interesting (and horrific) scenarios, considering the
> widespread use of undead slaves.
>
Messages in this topic (24)
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3k. Re: Conworld: Mentally retarded
Posted by: "Charlie Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:56 am ((PDT))
How does your society treat mentally retarded and muliti-handicapped people?
--
Тоłе МаьіЛеƒіљ МаьіПаніљ
Until this question was posted I had not thought of this aspect of life in
Sefdaania. I have since given it some serious thought.
Of the Six Loquent Peoples two, the Ethrans and the Xylans, do not engage in
procreative sex. They were all created at once and individually so there are
no physical or mental deformities among them.
With the other four Loquent Peoples, each of which is descended from a common
ancestral couple, there exist the usual physical and mental deformities as
exist in our world. Having been educated by the Ethrans, these Peoples share
many attitudes and values, although they practice them in various ways. Thus
it is a serious social defect not to care for those who cannot care for
themselves. Nevertheless, just as in our world, there are some who are
compassionate and some who are not. A child born with a noticeable defect
which would render him unproductive in the society, while not murdered
outright, could be killed by neglect.
Scattered thoughout Sefdaania, usually at river fords, are what we might call
monasteries. People from any of the Six Peoples live here and give assistance
to travelers. While their main occupation is a life of prayer, they provide
lodging for travelers and assist them in crossing the rivers, usually by means
of a ferry. They also provide care for any children or adults who are not
desired or who cannot be cared for by the Peoples in their villages.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (24)
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4. Destroying the noun/verb distinction
Posted by: "Matthew A. Gurevitch" [email protected]
Date: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:09 pm ((PDT))
Dear Conlangers,
I, who am just a beginner, am attempting to create a language that has no
verbs. Instead of taking the Kēlen route and using some form of verb functions
divorced from verb meanings, I use two forms based on now-gone verbs in the
language, specifically it has kept the gerund and the occupational form. For
example, it would not keep "to eat" as a verb from its proto-Language, but it
keeps the forms "eating (gerund)" and "eater." It uses these two to create a
perfect/imperfect (perhaps, still working on it) distinction, and a distinction
in main clauses and subordinate clauses. To take the example sentence "he eats
the apple," and show off the glosses used in them, the perfect in a main clause
and imperfect in a subordinate clause would look like "he-nominative
eater-role/apposition.to.nominative apple-genitive" and imperfect in main
clauses would look something like "he-genitive eating-instrument apple-dative."
I am leaving the word order, morphology, phonology, and the like out of this
discussion because I want to know how plausible this grammar is.
Matthew
Messages in this topic (1)
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5a. Re: Context-sensitive conlangs
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:10 am ((PDT))
Maybe you can consider watching Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets' presentation
about "surdéclinaison" at LCC4.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com.br/2011/08/post-mortem-my-4th-language-creation.html
On Tue, Apr 10, 2012 at 4:14 PM, Armin Buch <[email protected]>wrote:
> Hello Conlangers,
>
> this is going to be very linguistic and mostly uninteresting - unless you
> want to know how to make your conlang even more different from natlangs.
>
> I was just asked an interesting question: Are there any context-sensitive
> conlangs?
>
> I'm not talking about the colloquial sense of "context" here. You can sort
> (formal) grammars by complexity; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
> Chomsky_Hierarchy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chomsky_Hierarchy>.
> Natlangs are generally context-_free_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
> Context-free_grammar <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context-free_grammar>),
> with very few known constructions that are not (study example 5 in
> Shieber's famous article: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~**
> shieber/Biblio/Papers/**shieber85.pdf<http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/%7Eshieber/Biblio/Papers/shieber85.pdf>).
> Basically, if you draw a syntactic tree (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**
> Parse_tree <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse_tree>), branches do not
> cross in natlangs.
>
> Are there conlangs with such "cross-serial dependencies"?
>
> Another simple example for context-sensitivity / crossing branches is
> _full reduplication_ (as in "ugga ugga"). Just connect all the phoneme
> pairs: the connections cross. I'd be surprised if full reduplications was
> not a feature of at least some conlang. But identical copies are not as
> interesting as the crossing syntactic dependencies mentioned above.
>
> Sorry for the technicality. If you survived up to here, you can skip your
> introductory syntax class.
>
> Armin
>
Messages in this topic (16)
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