There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
From: Charles W Brickner
1b. Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
From: Charles W Brickner
2. OT: replying to a message
From: Charles W Brickner
3. LCS Jobs Board
From: Donald Boozer
4a. Re: Indexed Predicates Sketch
From: neo gu
5a. Re: Conlang Flash Fiction: Friday Fictioneers
From: Ian Spolarich
Messages
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1a. Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:20 pm ((PDT))
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of George Marques
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
All right, I did some lurking in the internet to find a good sentence and use
it as example. As I said before, Mihousapeja still don't have a lexical to
allow me to make translations, so I'll keep everything in English. Let's start
with this, which have 3 subordinate clauses:
Whenever he heard the question, the old man who lived in that house, answered
that the earth is flat.
To SOV:
=>Whenever he, the old man who in that house lives, the question heard that the
earth flat is answered.
Particles must not be absent:
=>Whenever he NOM, the old man who NOM that house LOC lives, the question ABS
heard, that the earth NOM flat ABS is ABS answered.
It seems clear to me, maybe because of the structure of the original sentence
which made me put things in the right place. I don't think I'd write the
original in that way, if I wanted say such a thing, but let's move on to a more
complicated example.
This one have 4 subordinate clauses:
I knew a man, who believed that, if a man were permitted to make the ballads,
he need not care who made the laws of the nation.
=>I NOM a man, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the ballads ABS
were permitted, he NOM who NOM the laws of the nation ABS made ABS not need ABS
care ABS knew.
Wow, that's pretty much what I was talking about: the verbs all cluster in the
end. In this case, though, the verb "care" is in the infinitive, a noun form (I
think), so it may change a little:
=>I NOM a man, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the ballads ABS
were permitted, he NOM care ABS not need who NOM the laws of the nation ABS
made ABS knew.
Still confusing because the main verb is too far from the subject, right? To
fix that I would, if I’m not mistaken, do this:
=>I NOM a man ABS knew, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the
ballads ABS were permitted, he NOM care ABS not need who NOM the laws of the
nation ABS made.
Clearer and still SOV. I think I now understand what Christophe said (or maybe
not).
In this case, "that" plays a big role referring to something that is yet to
come. It does that in the original too, but it refers to the thing right after
it and in my "translation" there's a verb in the way. Does it has something to
do with the relative clauses Ph. D talked about? I still don't know how to
distinct them.
Messages in this topic (21)
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1b. Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:34 am ((PDT))
Senjecas does not like long sentences. There is no co-ordinating conjunction
for joining sentences, although there is an enclitic for joining items in a
series. Senjecas prefers participial phrases and absolute constructions
whenever possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of George Marques
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 11:15 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Subordinate clauses in SOV syntax
All right, I did some lurking in the internet to find a good sentence and use
it as example. As I said before, Mihousapeja still don't have a lexical to
allow me to make translations, so I'll keep everything in English. Let's start
with this, which have 3 subordinate clauses:
Whenever he heard the question, the old man who lived in that house, answered
that the earth is flat.
To SOV:
=>Whenever he, the old man who in that house lives, the question heard that the
earth flat is answered.
Particles must not be absent:
=>Whenever he NOM, the old man who NOM that house LOC lives, the question ABS
heard, that the earth NOM flat ABS is ABS answered.
It seems clear to me, maybe because of the structure of the original sentence
which made me put things in the right place. I don't think I'd write the
original in that way, if I wanted say such a thing, but let's move on to a more
complicated example.
This one have 4 subordinate clauses:
I knew a man, who believed that, if a man were permitted to make the ballads,
he need not care who made the laws of the nation.
=>I NOM a man, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the ballads ABS
were permitted, he NOM who NOM the laws of the nation ABS made ABS not need ABS
care ABS knew.
Wow, that's pretty much what I was talking about: the verbs all cluster in the
end. In this case, though, the verb "care" is in the infinitive, a noun form (I
think), so it may change a little:
=>I NOM a man, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the ballads ABS
were permitted, he NOM care ABS not need who NOM the laws of the nation ABS
made ABS knew.
Still confusing because the main verb is too far from the subject, right? To
fix that I would, if I’m not mistaken, do this:
=>I NOM a man ABS knew, who NOM that ABS believed, if a man NOM to make the
ballads ABS were permitted, he NOM care ABS not need who NOM the laws of the
nation ABS made.
Clearer and still SOV. I think I now understand what Christophe said (or maybe
not).
In this case, "that" plays a big role referring to something that is yet to
come. It does that in the original too, but it refers to the thing right after
it and in my "translation" there's a verb in the way. Does it has something to
do with the relative clauses Ph. D talked about? I still don't know how to
distinct them.
Messages in this topic (21)
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________________________________________________________________________
2. OT: replying to a message
Posted by: "Charles W Brickner" [email protected]
Date: Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:48 pm ((PDT))
When answering a message on the archives, there used to be a way to include the
message in the response. I can't find it now. Am I doing something wrong?
Charlie
Sorry for my last two messages. I don’t know what happened. I answered from
me e-mail box.
Charlie
Messages in this topic (1)
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3. LCS Jobs Board
Posted by: "Donald Boozer" [email protected]
Date: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:15 am ((PDT))
The Language Creation Society (LCS) would like to announce the creation of the
LCS Jobs Board at:
http://jobs.conlang.org/
There are three kinds of conlanging job opportunities that will be posted on
the board in addition to other announcements:
1) Proxied Jobs:
If the LCS is acting as a proxy for a job (such as LCS did for HBO and
Dothraki), it will be announced here with details about how to inquire. There
won't be any specific details, though, as this is wide release. These will be
known as "Proxied Jobs" from now on.
2) Open Jobs:
If the LCS gets a job that it won't be acting as a proxy for, all details for
the job (including how to apply and who to contact) will be listed here. These
will be known as Open Jobs.
3) Reviewer Opportunities:
If the LCS needs reviewers for a Proxied Job, it will be announced here as well.
4) Miscellaneous Announcements:
If the LCS needs anything else (audio editor, video editor, etc.) for its own
purposes, we'll also announce that here.
So, in the future, the LCS won't do big announcements like this. They'll all be
funneled to the Jobs Board.
Stay Informed!
If you want to keep up to date, either keep the Jobs Board web page bookmarked
or (since it's a blog) subscribe to its RSS feed:
http://jobs.conlang.org/feed
The LCS Jobs Board is also part of the Conlang Aggregator so you're also
welcome to subscribe to the Aggregator's RSS:
http://aggregator.conlang.org/?feed=rss2
Either RSS feed is a *great* way to stay informed as soon as jobs are announced.
There are two announcements up right now at the Jobs Board, and another that's
going up soon.
Take a look and best of luck to those applying for conlanging opportunities
through the new LCS Jobs Board!
Don Boozer
LCS Secretary/Librarian
Messages in this topic (1)
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4a. Re: Indexed Predicates Sketch
Posted by: "neo gu" [email protected]
Date: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:34 am ((PDT))
Hi all,
Except for adverbs, some odds and ends that I haven't posted, and possible
changes (especially to the tense system), the basic Apr20 syntax is complete (I
think). Now I'd like to see suggestions concerning what kind of phonology would
be suitable. I've been having trouble coming up with satisfactory phonologies
lately. Also should the index-linktype-plural prefixes be the same as the
corresponding suffixes, or different (to avoid the prefix of one word being
mistaken for the suffix of another). TIA for the help!
--
neogu
Messages in this topic (13)
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5a. Re: Conlang Flash Fiction: Friday Fictioneers
Posted by: "Ian Spolarich" [email protected]
Date: Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:39 am ((PDT))
I would have put mine up, but I ended up creating a new language for it,
and it is in a very rough sketch sort of stage. Not to mention I don't have
my own blog to host it on... maybe next week. Plus, all the other stories
seem to be... not my type!
-Ian Spolarich
On 26 April 2012 22:26, Virginia Keys <[email protected]> wrote:
> Might be interesting, but I doubt I'll get one up this week. I'll keep an
> eye on it though.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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