There are 12 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
From: Puey McCleary
1b. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
From: Daniel Bowman
1c. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
From: Virginia Keys
1d. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
From: Sam Stutter
2a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
From: Henrik Theiling
3a. Re: Outidic verbs
From: R A Brown
4a. Who invented this?
From: George Corley
4b. Re: Who invented this?
From: David Peterson
5a. Ot: Re: OT: Latin translation
From: George Marques
5b. Re: Ot: Re: OT: Latin translation
From: Sam Stutter
6a. Re: About Professional Conlangers I've Studied
From: MorphemeAddict
7a. Re: A different sort of Conlang Relay
From: Sam Stutter
Messages
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1a. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
Posted by: "Puey McCleary" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:41 pm ((PDT))
Translating the poem will probably be easier than translating the Cicero
example from a few nights ago. Heres my try:
Xéràmpein tsotsòlqa tsèrmin
Koas tnekhúrnot wtsòlpa se Tsolyàyejikhh
Khwenyeqhèyatser koaqe khlùkhpi
Khlúwer khàsyaxing púxhrejorsa.
The forest galaxy, a hidden place,
An enclosed place in the light of the Moons (or Empresses) shall be my
homeland,
While my home, in fact, shall be the forest galaxy
In the Stars light.
Tnekhúrno, tnekhúrnot means "enclosed or fortified places." Tsèrmi, tsèrmin
means "folds of cloth, hiding places, hidden places, hideouts" and the
like. "Tsòlya" usually means Moons, but with the sentient suffix probably
refers to Empresses, possibly as Ancestresses. The first two lines have
"ts" sounds, and the second two lines have "kh" sounds. Hurray!
Messages in this topic (7)
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1b. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
Posted by: "Daniel Bowman" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:15 pm ((PDT))
I posted a simplified translation on my first post yesterday (I am not sure
if made it to the list in retrospect). Here's a more detailed interlinear:
Sasraya halath
azedrelayeo ndala in alanga.
Ayleya alangana in kyer eme.
I sasraya halath
halath sarnathyeo ndala iney.
Sasraya halath
[conjugation SITUATIONAL]-covers-[aspect EMOTIVE] light
azedrelayeo ndala in alanga.
moon-[DATIVE] [conjugation SITUATIONAL]-from [particle LOCATION] forest
Ayleya alangana in kyer eme
is located forest-[LOCATIVE] [particle LOCATION] home my
I sasraya halath
also [conjugation SITUATIONAL]-covers-[aspect EMOTIVE]
halath sarnathyeo ndala iney.
light star-[PLURAL]-[DATIVE] [conjugation SITUATIONAL]-from [conjugation
LOCATION]-it
Messages in this topic (7)
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1c. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
Posted by: "Virginia Keys" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:05 pm ((PDT))
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:07:30 -0400, Charlie Brickner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The forest is enclosed in the light of the moon;
>my home is the forest in the light of the stars.
>
...After a few hours...
Well it's not an exact translation, because I took a little bit of freedom and
adjusted the quote into 3 lines, and into poetic form in Shateyo. Some of the
grammer, although it works, is getting hard to explain!
Takeylo O Onavatey Ileyna O Ilisha-key
Immersed (Aid*) Forest Light (Aid) Moon-from
Takeylo O Tey Ohaa
Immersed (Aid) I (Refers back to the subject of the previous line, Forest)
Takeylo O Onavatey Ileyna O Aleyaa-key
Immersed (Aid) Forest Light (Aid) Stars-from
Aid*- Marks a divergence or intersection of thought in the written poetic form,
itâs purpose is to make the writing more fluid and less time-consuming for
writing repetitive poetic lines. In this case, Takeylo, Onavatey, and Ileya are
all written only once, but are read multiple times.
Approximate Back-Translation:
The forest is immersed in moonlight
I am immersed in the forest
The forest is immersed in starlight.
Written form is up at:
http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/IMG_20120501_005647.jpg.html
--Virginia Keys
Messages in this topic (7)
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1d. Re: Senjecas poem: The Forest
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 1, 2012 6:08 am ((PDT))
With Caccigga I've got a bit carried away:
To the song "Under the Sycamore Trees" (from Twin Peaks);
Tumma i la bannagna.
Guecce la arcu la bannari;
Guecce la arstelles la bannari;
An e ul mean;
Comme guecce la arcu mi;
Comme guecce la banna mi.
Tumma i la bannagna
sleep(1st-singular-present) (1st-singular-pronoun) (definite-feminine)
forest(dative)
embrace(3rd-singular-present) (definite-feminine) light-moon
(definite-feminine) forest(accusative)
embrace(3rd-singular-present) (definite-feminine) light-star(plural)
(definite-feminine) forest(accusative)
and be(3rd-singular-present) of (1st-singular-pronoun-genitive)
(In the manner of) embrace(3rd-singular-present) (definite-feminine) light-moon
(1st-singular-pronoun-accusative)
(In the manner of) embrace(3rd-singular-present) (definite-feminine) forest
(1st-singular-pronoun-accusative)
sleep(1st-singular-present) (1st-singular-pronoun) (definite-feminine)
forest(dative)
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 1 May 2012, at 07:05, Virginia Keys wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 17:07:30 -0400, Charlie Brickner
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The forest is enclosed in the light of the moon;
>> my home is the forest in the light of the stars.
>>
>
> ...After a few hours...
>
> Well it's not an exact translation, because I took a little bit of freedom
> and adjusted the quote into 3 lines, and into poetic form in Shateyo. Some of
> the grammer, although it works, is getting hard to explain!
>
> Takeylo O Onavatey Ileyna O Ilisha-key
> Immersed (Aid*) Forest Light (Aid) Moon-from
>
> Takeylo O Tey Ohaa
> Immersed (Aid) I (Refers back to the subject of the previous line, Forest)
>
> Takeylo O Onavatey Ileyna O Aleyaa-key
> Immersed (Aid) Forest Light (Aid) Stars-from
>
> Aid*- Marks a divergence or intersection of thought in the written poetic
> form, its purpose is to make the writing more fluid and less time-consuming
> for writing repetitive poetic lines. In this case, Takeylo, Onavatey, and
> Ileya are all written only once, but are read multiple times.
>
> Approximate Back-Translation:
> The forest is immersed in moonlight
> I am immersed in the forest
> The forest is immersed in starlight.
>
> Written form is up at:
> http://pics.conlang.org./v/Shateyo_2dws/IMG_20120501_005647.jpg.html
>
> --Virginia Keys
Messages in this topic (7)
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2a. META: Conlang-L FAQ
Posted by: "Henrik Theiling" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:05 pm ((PDT))
The following is the de facto Conlang-L FAQ, hosted at:
http://wiki.frath.net/Conlang-L_FAQ
This is automatically posted once a month, copied directly from that page,
for the benefit of new members. If you would like to change it, please
edit it at the link above.
**Henrik
==Where to get Conlang-L==
The official archives are at http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/conlang.html .
>From there, you can search the archives, get an RSS feed, manage your
subscription, etc.
It's also the ONLY place you can go to sign up and post things to the list.
A read-only archive with a nicer user interface is at
http://archives.conlang.info/ . [As of April 2009 this archive has ceased
mirroring new messages. Henrik Theiling knows about the problem and has said
he's planning to fix it but hasn't had time to do so yet.]
Conlang-L is also _mirrored_ as a Yahoo group, but there is no way to have
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diku.dk, the mail hub of the CS Department of the University of Copenhagen.
Send all submissions to CONLANG at diku dot dk. The address at buphy still
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''Lars Mathiesen (U of Copenhagen CS Dept) (Humour NOT marked)''
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WORKS'''.)
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Example:
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==Acronyms==
List of acronyms specific to the Conlang Mailing List:
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** AFMOCL - "As for my own conlang"
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idiolect], depending on context)
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** YADPT ... Dutch Pronunciation ...
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** general pattern: YA(Language)(Topic)T
Acronyms not on this list might be in general usage: try
[http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aafaict Google's define:] or
[http://www.acronymfinder.com/ Acronym Finder].
==Other conlang-specific vocabulary==
>From [http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/Conlang%20Dictionary/ here] and
[http://arthaey.mine.nu/~arthaey/conlang/faq.html here]. See also [[Conlang
terminology]].
con__
* constructed __ (generally a contraction): conlang, conworld, conhistory,
conculture, ...
__lang
* a language characterised by ___ (generally a contraction): conlang, artlang,
auxlang, ...
[[artlang]]
# A language constructed for the beauty or fun of doing so. [From art(istic) +
lang(uage)]
# (See conlang) [From art(ificial) + lang(uage)]
[[auxlang]]
* A language constructed to replace or complement natlangs to facilitate
cross-linguistic communication. [From aux(iliary) + lang(uage)]
concultural [From con(structed) + cultur(e) + al]
* Adjective form of "conculture".
[[conculture]] [From con(structed) + culture]
* A fictional culture created as a backdrop to a conlang. See also "conworld".
[[conlang]] [From con(structed) + lang(uage)]
# n. A constructed language
# v. To construct a language
[[CONLANG]] (all caps), conlang-l, Conlang-L, or CONLANG-L
* A very active conlang mailing list hosted by brown.edu, and currently
operated by Henrik Theiling
[[conworld]] [From con(structed) + world]
* A fictional world created to host a conlang or conculture. See also
"conculture".
[[engelang]] /ËendÊlæÅ/ [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
* A conlang that is designed to certain criteria, such that it is objectively
testable whether the criteria are met or not. This is different from claiming
that the criteria themselves are 'objective'. For example, the Lojban/Loglan
roots are designed to be maximally recognisable to the speakers of the
(numerically) largest languages in the world in proportion to the number of
speakers. It is not a matter of taste whether this criterion is met; it is
something that can be tested. (by John Cowan) [From eng(ineered) + lang(uage)]
etabnannery /raËmnænÉɹi/ (rare)
* The state of appearing entirely unpredictable, but, upon closer analysis,
failing at even being that. [From EtáÌbnann(i), a conlang by Tristan McLeay,
which was supposed to have an unpredictable orthography, but ended up just
having a confusing one. Damn people trying to make patterns everywhere. At
least it's a bugger to typeset!... errm... back to the derivation + -ery]
maggelity /mÉ"gÉËlIti/ (rare) [From Maggel, a conlang by Christophe
Grandsire which has a rarely predictable orthography]
# The state of being entirely unpredictable. (Tristan McLeay)
# The state of being regularly unpredictable, such as to horribly confuse
anyone unfamiliar with the language, lulling them into a full sense of
security before pointing out, cartoon-character-style, that the ground no
longer exists where they're standing. (Tristan McLeay and H. S. Teoh)
Maggel's Paradox (rare)
* Your radical ideas have already occurred to others. (Muke Tever)
[[natlang]] [From nat(ural) + lang(uage)]
# A natural language, i.e., one that naturally developed in the world, as
opposed to a conlang.
ObConlang (or ObCL)
* Just before something about conlanging in an otherwise off-topic post.
* From ob(ligatory) + conlang (i.e., an obligatory on-topic comment about
conlangs just so that the post isn't completely off-topic).
[[translation relay]]
* A game similar to Telephone or Chinese Whispers, wherein the participants
translate a passage one at a time, in serial, into their own languages - and
then marvel at how far from the original the translations have gotten.
==CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA)==
[[CXS]] is a version of X-SAMPA for use on the CONLANG mailing list. X-SAMPA
is a way to write the IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) using normal
plain-ASCII text that everyone can read.
* [http://www.theiling.de/ipa/ Theiling Online: Conlang X-Sampa (CXS)] -
includes CXS-to-IPA conversion chart
* [http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Conlang/Appendix/CXS CXS at Wikibooks]
==Related lists==
The Auxlang list, mentioned above, is dedicated to international auxiliary
languages. Its archives and subscription interface are at
http://listserv.brown.edu/archives/auxlang.html .
The list [email protected] is dedicated to the planning and
conducting of [[conlang relay]]s, q.v.
==Resources==
* [http://www.arthaey.com/conlang/faq.html Arthaey's Conlang FAQ]
* [http://www.langmaker.com LangMaker] - repository of many conlang
"biographies"
* [http://wiki.frath.net Frath Wiki] - a similar site, and host of the
Conlang-L (wikified) FAQ
* [http://www.omniglot.com Omniglot] - which has information on more writing
systems than you thought could exist
[[Category:Conlanging culture]]
[[Category:Terminology]]
Messages in this topic (20)
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3a. Re: Outidic verbs
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:46 pm ((PDT))
On 30/04/2012 22:32, Padraic Brown wrote:
> --- On Mon, 4/30/12, R A Brown<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Outidic, the fictitious 17th century auxlang, makes
>> steady progress. The morphology of the verb is now
>> online:
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Outis/Verbs.html
>
> Given that this is a fictitious auxlang of a previous
> century, do I assume right that Dr. Outis is also a
> fictional person?
Google is your friend:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outis
> Have you discovered anything about him, his life, place
> in society or activities?
Not yet ;)
> Speaking for myself, I'd like to learn something about
> the illustrious auxlanger as well as the language!
The language is coming along gradually - the illustrious
Doctor is another matter.
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]
Messages in this topic (3)
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4a. Who invented this?
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:07 pm ((PDT))
Does anyone know who created the language Diamana Lokud, which is found
here: http://staff.washington.edu/salmiak/akana/dimana.html#ph
Messages in this topic (2)
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4b. Re: Who invented this?
Posted by: "David Peterson" [email protected]
Date: Mon Apr 30, 2012 11:11 pm ((PDT))
Aaron Toivo as a part of the Akana project. Information is easily gleanable if
you start poking around here:
http://staff.washington.edu/salmiak/akana/
David Peterson
LCS President
[email protected]
www.conlang.org
On Apr 30, 2012, at 11:07 PM, George Corley wrote:
> Does anyone know who created the language Diamana Lokud, which is found
> here: http://staff.washington.edu/salmiak/akana/dimana.html#ph
Messages in this topic (2)
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5a. Ot: Re: OT: Latin translation
Posted by: "George Marques" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 1, 2012 2:21 am ((PDT))
On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:09:24 +0100, R A Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
>"The forest is enclosed in the light of the moon; my home is
>the forest in the light of the stars."
>
>--
>Ray
>==================================
>http://www.carolandray.plus.com
Alright, given my previous trouble I decided to give it a try in my own conlang.
Sã kuretemi saia kesnolia Æ¥ei sã nipiti Åo tsi pil teli
E Åo kiÆa saia sã kuretemi Æ¥ei xasel Åo tsi pil peli
The forest NOM hide-pastparticiple ABS the moon GEN light LOC is-3sg
I GEN home NOM the forest ABS stars GEN light LOC is-3sg
With "kuretemi" (forest) being like a "collection of trees" and "nipiti" (moon)
being the diminutive of "nipo" (planet).
Messages in this topic (2)
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5b. Re: Ot: Re: OT: Latin translation
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 1, 2012 3:40 am ((PDT))
I've always wanted to use the chezative and disseminative adverbs:
Sebela geluk ybek klerèyu chisayal. Gejek dichuk sebelayu ybek klerèyu
mekasyal.
"The forest is located dispersed beneath the moon's light. I am located at home
at the forest dispersed beneath the stars' light."
Where the verb "ga" (geluk, gejek) is "to be located", "ybek" is disseminative
and "dichuk" is chezative.
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 1 May 2012, at 10:21, George Marques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 08:09:24 +0100, R A Brown <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "The forest is enclosed in the light of the moon; my home is
>> the forest in the light of the stars."
>>
>> --
>> Ray
>> ==================================
>> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
>
> Alright, given my previous trouble I decided to give it a try in my own
> conlang.
>
> Sã kuretemi saia kesnolia Æ¥ei sã nipiti Åo tsi pil teli
> E Åo kiÆa saia sã kuretemi Æ¥ei xasel Åo tsi pil peli
>
> The forest NOM hide-pastparticiple ABS the moon GEN light LOC is-3sg
> I GEN home NOM the forest ABS stars GEN light LOC is-3sg
>
> With "kuretemi" (forest) being like a "collection of trees" and "nipiti"
> (moon) being the diminutive of "nipo" (planet).
Messages in this topic (2)
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6a. Re: About Professional Conlangers I've Studied
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 1, 2012 2:29 am ((PDT))
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Adam Walker <[email protected]> wrote:
> I haven't said anything on this thread yet, and I really have no desire to
> contribute anything more than the following: I have met Okrand in person
> and he is a very nice guy who is (or at least back when I met him, was)
> quite responsive to the Klingon community as a whole, but due to having a
> Real Life mostly limited his interraction to official channels through the
> KLI. He was even taking requests (without guaranteeing delivery) for new
> vocabulary. He participated in games and pannel discussions and general
> schmoozing. I thoroughly enjoyed interracting with him.
>
> Ditto.
stevo
> Adam
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 5:45 PM, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Don't worry too much about it Jörg. This guy's hobby appear to be
> dumping
> > all over professional conlangers without actually understanding the
> > realities of their work, like tight deadlines or studios who control how
> > much they can share about the language. Case in point:
> >
> > > And my specialty is writing systems - and Klingon alphabet
> > > > and Martian alphabet are terrible - they aren't even a priori,
> > > > Klingon is based on Phoenician and Martian was based on
> > > > Atlantean and upper-case Roman.
> > >
> > > Pardon? I frankly don't get what you are talking about.
> > >
> >
> > I believe he is talking about the invented writing systems used for
> these
> > languages. We can argue about the romanizations, but I have explained to
> > this guy before that the "native" scripts for Klingon and Barsoomian seen
> > in their respective properties were developed by linguistically naïve
> > artists, not by the conlangers.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (26)
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7a. Re: A different sort of Conlang Relay
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Tue May 1, 2012 3:59 am ((PDT))
I'm such an idiot. I've done a little bodge to make that possible now.
Sam Stutter
[email protected]
"No e na'l cu barri"
On 30 Apr 2012, at 23:57, Matthew A. Gurevitch wrote:
> No option for those who are too shy to share our own not even close to
> finished conlangs and would like to join in just working with other people's
> languages?
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Stutter <[email protected]>
> To: CONLANG <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 6:52 pm
> Subject: Re: A different sort of Conlang Relay
>
>
> That should have been:
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dGhzZFlLZWpkNnV3elhLNlYyb3BHZVE6MQ
>
> instead.
>
> Sam Stutter
> [email protected]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
>
>
>
>
> On 30 Apr 2012, at 23:05, Sam Stutter wrote:
>
>> I've bitten the bullet and put together a Google form if people want to sign
> up. But don't expect anything to happen quickly :)
>>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An0P5RMs_fRydGhzZFlLZWpkNnV3elhLNlYyb3BHZVE
>>
>> Sam Stutter
>> [email protected]
>> "No e na'l cu barri"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 30 Apr 2012, at 14:01, Sam Stutter wrote:
>>
>>> Well, sort of, but less labour intensive, more like: steal someone else's
> conlang and use that as a basis for your own new conlang. Only more
> co-operatively. And... damn, you know what I mean :)
>>>
>>> Sam Stutter
>>> [email protected]
>>> "No e na'l cu barri"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 30 Apr 2012, at 13:37, Fenhl wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2012-4-30 12:15, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> We could swap conlangs and then use the language we receive to develop
> another related language or dialect; a predecessor, a future form, a sister
> language, a creole developed from contact with another language (possibly our
> own conlang), a pidgin, or a dialect of another language spoken by
> descendants
> of the received conlang.
>>>> You mean like the games that resulted in the Akana conworld?
> http://www.frathwiki.com/Akana
>>>
>>
>
>
Messages in this topic (9)
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