There are 6 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
From: Sam Stutter
1b. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
From: George Corley
1c. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
From: Sam Stutter
1d. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
From: Leonardo Castro
2a. Re: What psychological effect does word order have in languages?
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
2b. Re: What psychological effect does word order have in languages?
From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
Messages
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1a. "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:50 am ((PST))
This might be old news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21518574
As you might have guessed from my header, I'm not convinced. Italian and
Spanish both have a future tense (what this guy would term a "proper"
future tense) and yet financially are in a much worse condition than say,
Sweden, which "doesn't" (AFAIK).
Besides, we can either analyse English as having two tenses, in which case
Mandarin only has one (I think), or we can analyse English as only having
tense as a morpheme of a verb occasionally, just as Mandarin (I think) has
tense as an article.
Anyone care to tell me if there is a substantial meaning difference between
"seria", "I will be" and "jag kommer att vara"? I could understand if
English was dealing with this aspectually, rather than with tense.
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1b. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
Posted by: "George Corley" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:07 am ((PST))
On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
> This might be old news:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21518574
>
> As you might have guessed from my header, I'm not convinced. Italian and
> Spanish both have a future tense (what this guy would term a "proper"
> future tense) and yet financially are in a much worse condition than say,
> Sweden, which "doesn't" (AFAIK).
>
This story has been around for a while. I haven't gotten around to looking
at the actual paper (something I'd like to do), but the complicated nature
of tense marking and reference to the future makes this claim a little hard
to make. As you say, Spanish has a morphological future tense, but
periphrastic future and mood strategies are more commonly used AIUI.
> Besides, we can either analyse English as having two tenses, in which case
> Mandarin only has one (I think), or we can analyse English as only having
> tense as a morpheme of a verb occasionally, just as Mandarin (I think) has
> tense as an article.
>
Um, not really sure what you're talking about. English has two
morphological tenses (past tense and non-past tense), while Mandarin has no
morphological tense marking. Both languages have _modal_ strategies for
marking the future (using the modal _will_ in English or the modals 会 hui4
or 要 yao4 in Mandarin).
In any case, I think that the study is finding a correlation not between
morphological future and savings, but between language that have a stronger
tendency to mark future events differently using one strategy or another
and savings. That would probably be a more solid argument, but as I
indicated, makes it much harder to get accurate data. (No one person can
study a statistically significant sample of languages to really know this
information.)
> Anyone care to tell me if there is a substantial meaning difference between
> "seria", "I will be" and "jag kommer att vara"? I could understand if
> English was dealing with this aspectually, rather than with tense.
>
I believe the Spanish future tense of "to be" is "será". "Sería" is a
conditional, IIRC. I don't know Spanish well enough to know if there is a
difference in meaning -- though I think that the mophological future is
somewhat low-frequency.
Messages in this topic (4)
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1c. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
Posted by: "Sam Stutter" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:13 am ((PST))
My bad, was writing that during a hurried lunch break.
On 23 Feb 2013, at 15:07, George Corley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 7:48 AM, Sam Stutter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This might be old news:
>> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21518574
>>
>> As you might have guessed from my header, I'm not convinced. Italian and
>> Spanish both have a future tense (what this guy would term a "proper"
>> future tense) and yet financially are in a much worse condition than say,
>> Sweden, which "doesn't" (AFAIK).
>>
>
> This story has been around for a while. I haven't gotten around to looking
> at the actual paper (something I'd like to do), but the complicated nature
> of tense marking and reference to the future makes this claim a little hard
> to make. As you say, Spanish has a morphological future tense, but
> periphrastic future and mood strategies are more commonly used AIUI.
>
>
>> Besides, we can either analyse English as having two tenses, in which case
>> Mandarin only has one (I think), or we can analyse English as only having
>> tense as a morpheme of a verb occasionally, just as Mandarin (I think) has
>> tense as an article.
>>
>
> Um, not really sure what you're talking about. English has two
> morphological tenses (past tense and non-past tense), while Mandarin has no
> morphological tense marking. Both languages have _modal_ strategies for
> marking the future (using the modal _will_ in English or the modals 会 hui4
> or 要 yao4 in Mandarin).
That's exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks for putting it much more
clearly.
>
> In any case, I think that the study is finding a correlation not between
> morphological future and savings, but between language that have a stronger
> tendency to mark future events differently using one strategy or another
> and savings. That would probably be a more solid argument, but as I
> indicated, makes it much harder to get accurate data. (No one person can
> study a statistically significant sample of languages to really know this
> information.)
>
>
>> Anyone care to tell me if there is a substantial meaning difference between
>> "seria", "I will be" and "jag kommer att vara"? I could understand if
>> English was dealing with this aspectually, rather than with tense.
>>
>
> I believe the Spanish future tense of "to be" is "será". "Sería" is a
> conditional, IIRC. I don't know Spanish well enough to know if there is a
> difference in meaning -- though I think that the mophological future is
> somewhat low-frequency.
Of course! I knew that! I was being dimwitted. :)
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
1d. Re: "Language is related to financial saving patterns" (apparently)
Posted by: "Leonardo Castro" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:20 am ((PST))
2013/2/23 Sam Stutter <[email protected]>:
> This might be old news:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21518574
>
> As you might have guessed from my header, I'm not convinced. Italian and
> Spanish both have a future tense (what this guy would term a "proper"
> future tense) and yet financially are in a much worse condition than say,
> Sweden, which "doesn't" (AFAIK).
But isn't this what is expected from their theory? :
"Speakers of languages which only use the present tense when dealing
with the future are likely to save more money than those who speak
languages which require the use a future tense, he argues.
[...]
If your language separates the future and the present in its grammar
that seems to lead you to slightly disassociate the future from the
present every time you speak. "
>
> Besides, we can either analyse English as having two tenses, in which case
> Mandarin only has one (I think), or we can analyse English as only having
> tense as a morpheme of a verb occasionally, just as Mandarin (I think) has
> tense as an article.
>
> Anyone care to tell me if there is a substantial meaning difference between
> "seria", "I will be" and "jag kommer att vara"? I could understand if
> English was dealing with this aspectually, rather than with tense.
Messages in this topic (4)
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________
2a. Re: What psychological effect does word order have in languages?
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:33 am ((PST))
This thread reminds me of a Latin sentence structure I cannot understand.
I usually see adpositions coming either before the phrase it modifies
(preposition) or after it (postposition).
Can someone explain me what is the role of the word "cum" in "SVMMA CVM
LAVDE"?
"Summa laude" is a noun phrase in the ablative case. Is "cum" a
preposition? Or a postposition?
Messages in this topic (26)
________________________________________________________________________
2b. Re: What psychological effect does word order have in languages?
Posted by: "Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro" [email protected]
Date: Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:35 am ((PST))
On Sat, Feb 23, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
<[email protected]> wrote:
> This thread reminds me of a Latin sentence structure I cannot understand.
>
> I usually see adpositions coming either before the phrase it modifies
> (preposition) or after it (postposition).
>
> Can someone explain me what is the role of the word "cum" in "SVMMA CVM
> LAVDE"?
> "Summa laude" is a noun phrase in the ablative case. Is "cum" a preposition?
> Or a postposition?
A further question: Can someone show me the syntactic tree structure
of this sentence?
Messages in this topic (26)
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