There are 15 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1a. Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive cult
From: Matthew George
1b. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Alex Fink
1c. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: MorphemeAddict
1d. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Gary Shannon
1e. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Patrick Dunn
1f. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: MorphemeAddict
1g. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Gary Shannon
1h. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: R A Brown
1i. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Mechthild Czapp
1j. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Leonardo Castro
1k. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Jörg Rhiemeier
1l. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
From: Daniel Myers
2. OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant numer
From: Daniel Burgener
3. Noct im Nazguls
From: Olivier Simon
4. Online Moten Dictionary
From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
Messages
________________________________________________________________________
1a. Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive cult
Posted by: "Matthew George" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 5:44 pm ((PST))
I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
encountered a conlang with a system anything like it. Toki Pona's is
somewhat similar, but much simpler, and is obviously related to that lang's
design intent. Pretty much all of the other variation I've heard about
involves numerical bases. But the place-value system, complete with zero,
is always what people seem to choose.
I haven't looked at all that many systems. Do people ever make clunky,
irrational, and old-fashioned systems like the Roman numerals? Or are the
purposes of number systems so practical that most conlangers have no
interest in making such a complex (no, baroque) method for doing math?
Most other aspects of conlangs seem to be deliberately elaborated and
intricate, reflecting how much weirdness is out there and how the
complexity of a language isn't related to how materially-advanced its
society is. But historically, most peoples had very basic math skills.
I'd love to see counter-examples to the modern place-value system. Can you
recommend any?
Matt G.
Messages in this topic (12)
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1b. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Alex Fink" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 9:29 pm ((PST))
On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 20:44:20 -0500, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
>I haven't looked at all that many systems. Do people ever make clunky,
>irrational, and old-fashioned systems like the Roman numerals?
I haven't invented any numerical notations for my natcultures to stand
alongside Roman numerals, yet, but there are several of them that count using
something other than a straightforward base. And none of them grant 0 the
position of a number.
Pjaukra is base 12, but the teens are etymologically 'second one, second two,
..., second eleven'. They're quite unconfusable with the numbers in the
twenties: 'two twelves (and) X' _tej-undu X_ vs. 'second X' _X-bawi_, which as
you can see is suppletive with respect to 'two'. (This is all stolen from
Finnish.)
KibülÊiá¹
is base 10 but subtractive: 10x+9 and 10x+8 are composed as
10(x+1)-1 and 10(x+2)-2.
Kenakoliku, an old collaborative project for which I proposed the number system
assembling a few partial proposals, goes further and uses balanced decimal. In
morphological breakdown, a count to 20 goes
1, 2, 3, 4, half.10, half.10.and.1, 10.3.without, 10.2.without, 10.1*.without,
10, 10.and.1, 10.and.2, 10.and.3, 10.and.4, 10.and.half.10, 2.10.4.without,
2.10.3.without, 2.10.2.without, 2.10.1*.without, 2.10.
This "1*" _jo_ is a suppletive root used in subtractions to replace "1" _eng_.
Also note the different formations of 6 and 16.
Sabasasaj has roots for 1 through 10. The next number with an unanalysable
name is 120. Numbers in between are formed via fractions. The names for 60,
40, 30, 24 are identical to 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5, of which 1/2 is a root (a
different base built on it is 'take half of') and the others are formed as the
root verbs 3, 4, 5 (numbers are verbal) with the 'apart' directional. The word
for 20 is contracted but looks like it was formerly similarly expressed as 1/6.
This identity means that now when you really want to speak of fractions, it's
clearest to include the noun 'part' in the construction.
Other numbers are formed by greedy additive combinations of 60, 40, 30, 20, 10
and the roots less than 10. (24 doesn't participate here; it's an isolated
anomaly from this perspective.)
I don't know for sure what you do beyond 1200, but it's not unlikely that it's
a plain base 120 system built on the above digits.
(This was a riff on the Sumero-Babylonian tradition. There must be more
backstory to it than I know now.)
This one isn't naturalist, but you say "irrational", and so taking irrational
at jargon face value, here is the "alternate" number system from the gripping
language, intentionally designed for a minor gain in efficiency at the cost of
usability. The gripping language is taxonomic; the "alternate" system just
uses _all_ possible words that start with the number prefix as numbers, in
increasing order by length, then alphabetical order. The thing that makes it
unusable is phonotactic constraints on which phonemes can follow each other,
much as if in decimal counting we just skipped over numbers containing the
sequence "23" or whatnot. It turns out that the number of length n words is
asymptotic to 75.04773409...^n. (So if it were a base system, the base would
be 75.04..., a degree ten algebraic number.)
Alex
Messages in this topic (12)
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1c. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 9:34 pm ((PST))
The only thing I can think of that even comes close is the Psychlo math
system in _Battlefield Earth_ by L. Ron Hubbard. It is based on the
architecture of a certain place on the Psychlos' homeworld, and it's
deliberately arcane so that outworlders won't figure it out.
stevo
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:44 PM, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
> encountered a conlang with a system anything like it. Toki Pona's is
> somewhat similar, but much simpler, and is obviously related to that lang's
> design intent. Pretty much all of the other variation I've heard about
> involves numerical bases. But the place-value system, complete with zero,
> is always what people seem to choose.
>
> I haven't looked at all that many systems. Do people ever make clunky,
> irrational, and old-fashioned systems like the Roman numerals? Or are the
> purposes of number systems so practical that most conlangers have no
> interest in making such a complex (no, baroque) method for doing math?
> Most other aspects of conlangs seem to be deliberately elaborated and
> intricate, reflecting how much weirdness is out there and how the
> complexity of a language isn't related to how materially-advanced its
> society is. But historically, most peoples had very basic math skills.
>
> I'd love to see counter-examples to the modern place-value system. Can you
> recommend any?
>
> Matt G.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1d. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 10:39 pm ((PST))
I wanted to use binary numbers with a robot conlang, but to make it usable
by humans too I used different names for place locations. For example, in
decimal we say "ten" for "10", not "one zero", and "one hundred" for "100"
instead of "one zero zero".
The other problem is that binary numbers get to be too long, so my system
had to compensate for that problem too. Here's what I came up with:
The units digit is "nu". The "10's" (2's) digit is "di". The "100's" digit
(4's) is "ta", and the following are "ko", "ru", "si",... and so on in like
manner. Only the place positions that have "1" are named when naming the
number. The syllable "ban" means "all '1's to the right".
0 - 0 zip
1 - 1 nu
2 - 10 di
3 - 11 dinu (or diban)
4 - 100 ta
5 - 101 tanu
6 - 110 tadi
7 - 111 tadinu (or taban)
8 - 1000 ko
9 - 1001 konu
... 1010 kodi
1011 kodinu (or kodiban)
1100 kota
1101 kotanu
1110 kotadi
1111 kotadinu (or koban)
10000 ru
10001 runu
10010 rudi
10011 rudinu (or rudiban)
10100 ruta
10101 rutanu
10110 rutadi
10111 rutadinu (or rutaban)
11000 ruko
11001 rukonu
11010 rukodi
11011 rukodinu (or rudiban)
11100 rukota
11101 rukotanu
11110 rukotadi
11111 rukotadinu (or ruban)
100000 si
...
111111 sirukotadinu (or siban)
... etc...
--gary
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
> encountered a conlang with a system anything like it.
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1e. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Patrick Dunn" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 10:52 pm ((PST))
man, that is downright nifty.
I'm terrible at numbers. I just draw a blank trying to come up with
numerical systems.
I'm envious.
--Patrick
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 12:33 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wanted to use binary numbers with a robot conlang, but to make it usable
> by humans too I used different names for place locations. For example, in
> decimal we say "ten" for "10", not "one zero", and "one hundred" for "100"
> instead of "one zero zero".
>
> The other problem is that binary numbers get to be too long, so my system
> had to compensate for that problem too. Here's what I came up with:
>
> The units digit is "nu". The "10's" (2's) digit is "di". The "100's" digit
> (4's) is "ta", and the following are "ko", "ru", "si",... and so on in like
> manner. Only the place positions that have "1" are named when naming the
> number. The syllable "ban" means "all '1's to the right".
>
> 0 - 0 zip
> 1 - 1 nu
> 2 - 10 di
> 3 - 11 dinu (or diban)
> 4 - 100 ta
> 5 - 101 tanu
> 6 - 110 tadi
> 7 - 111 tadinu (or taban)
> 8 - 1000 ko
> 9 - 1001 konu
> ... 1010 kodi
> 1011 kodinu (or kodiban)
> 1100 kota
> 1101 kotanu
> 1110 kotadi
> 1111 kotadinu (or koban)
> 10000 ru
> 10001 runu
> 10010 rudi
> 10011 rudinu (or rudiban)
> 10100 ruta
> 10101 rutanu
> 10110 rutadi
> 10111 rutadinu (or rutaban)
> 11000 ruko
> 11001 rukonu
> 11010 rukodi
> 11011 rukodinu (or rudiban)
> 11100 rukota
> 11101 rukotanu
> 11110 rukotadi
> 11111 rukotadinu (or ruban)
> 100000 si
> ...
> 111111 sirukotadinu (or siban)
> ... etc...
>
> --gary
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> > mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
> > encountered a conlang with a system anything like it.
> >
>
--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
Messages in this topic (12)
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1f. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "MorphemeAddict" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 10:57 pm ((PST))
Are there names for powers of two higher than 2^6? You say "and so on in
like manner", but I discern no pattern to base new words on.
stevo
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 1:33 AM, Gary Shannon <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wanted to use binary numbers with a robot conlang, but to make it usable
> by humans too I used different names for place locations. For example, in
> decimal we say "ten" for "10", not "one zero", and "one hundred" for "100"
> instead of "one zero zero".
>
> The other problem is that binary numbers get to be too long, so my system
> had to compensate for that problem too. Here's what I came up with:
>
> The units digit is "nu". The "10's" (2's) digit is "di". The "100's" digit
> (4's) is "ta", and the following are "ko", "ru", "si",... and so on in like
> manner. Only the place positions that have "1" are named when naming the
> number. The syllable "ban" means "all '1's to the right".
>
> 0 - 0 zip
> 1 - 1 nu
> 2 - 10 di
> 3 - 11 dinu (or diban)
> 4 - 100 ta
> 5 - 101 tanu
> 6 - 110 tadi
> 7 - 111 tadinu (or taban)
> 8 - 1000 ko
> 9 - 1001 konu
> ... 1010 kodi
> 1011 kodinu (or kodiban)
> 1100 kota
> 1101 kotanu
> 1110 kotadi
> 1111 kotadinu (or koban)
> 10000 ru
> 10001 runu
> 10010 rudi
> 10011 rudinu (or rudiban)
> 10100 ruta
> 10101 rutanu
> 10110 rutadi
> 10111 rutadinu (or rutaban)
> 11000 ruko
> 11001 rukonu
> 11010 rukodi
> 11011 rukodinu (or rudiban)
> 11100 rukota
> 11101 rukotanu
> 11110 rukotadi
> 11111 rukotadinu (or ruban)
> 100000 si
> ...
> 111111 sirukotadinu (or siban)
> ... etc...
>
> --gary
>
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Matthew George <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> > mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
> > encountered a conlang with a system anything like it.
> >
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1g. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Gary Shannon" [email protected]
Date: Mon Mar 4, 2013 11:33 pm ((PST))
I don't remember what names I originally used, and I can't find the file at
the moment. (I made up these names as I was typing the email) Besides, it
doesn't really matter. The names are arbitrary so you can use any names you
want. It could also be done in groups so that every number is divided into
groups of four digits so it would essentially be a hexadecimal system, but
with binary names for each hex value.
--gary
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 10:54 PM, MorphemeAddict <[email protected]> wrote:
> Are there names for powers of two higher than 2^6? You say "and so on in
> like manner", but I discern no pattern to base new words on.
>
> stevo
>
>
Messages in this topic (12)
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1h. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "R A Brown" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 12:07 am ((PST))
On 05/03/2013 01:44, Matthew George wrote:
[snip]
>
> I haven't looked at all that many systems. Do people
> ever make clunky, irrational, and old-fashioned systems
> like the Roman numerals?
Roman numerals are certainly clunky and old fashioned, but I
don't understand why you call them irrational. Essentially
they use a bi-quinary system.
[snip]
> I'd love to see counter-examples to the modern
> place-value system. Can you recommend any?
Leibniz had a bizarre system which did not use place-value.
The consonants _b c d f g h l m n_ = 1..9 respectively. To
these you add a vowel as a multiplier, thus:
a = x 1
e = x 10
i = x 100
o = x 1000
u = x 10 000
Thus 81 374 = mubodilefa
But the syllables may be written in any order; thus 81 374
may be written _bodifalemu_, _lemudibofa_ etc. etc. :)
--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
"language
began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
for individual beings and events."
[Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
Messages in this topic (12)
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1i. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Mechthild Czapp" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 12:35 am ((PST))
Rejistanian does a mild example of that: Rejistani numbers have a kind of place
value system without the zero:
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, [1](ke), [1](ke)1, [1](ke)2, ... [1](ke)9, 2[ke],
... 9(ke)9, [1](ry), [1](ry)1, [1](ry)2, ... [1](ry)[1]ke, [1](ry)[1]ke1 etc.
angular brackets show an optional component, round brackets indicate a sign in
rejistanian, which is not in Unicode.
On 05.03.2013, at 01:44, Matthew George wrote:
> I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> mathematics that whole system is. Then it occurred to me that I've never
> encountered a conlang with a system anything like it. Toki Pona's is
> somewhat similar, but much simpler, and is obviously related to that lang's
> design intent. Pretty much all of the other variation I've heard about
> involves numerical bases. But the place-value system, complete with zero,
> is always what people seem to choose.
>
> I haven't looked at all that many systems. Do people ever make clunky,
> irrational, and old-fashioned systems like the Roman numerals? Or are the
> purposes of number systems so practical that most conlangers have no
> interest in making such a complex (no, baroque) method for doing math?
> Most other aspects of conlangs seem to be deliberately elaborated and
> intricate, reflecting how much weirdness is out there and how the
> complexity of a language isn't related to how materially-advanced its
> society is. But historically, most peoples had very basic math skills.
>
> I'd love to see counter-examples to the modern place-value system. Can you
> recommend any?
>
> Matt G.
Messages in this topic (12)
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1j. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Leonardo Castro" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 3:52 am ((PST))
2013/3/4 Matthew George <[email protected]>:
> I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> mathematics that whole system is.
I once affirmed that to a friend and he told me "Let's check!" and
started trying to make basic operations with Roman numerals. To my
surprise, he succeeded! He succeeded and said: "It's not that
difficult...". I watched he performing the operations while analyzing
developing the methods himself and it really didn't looked very
difficult.
I don't have time to repeat what he did now, but I challenge you do so.
Messages in this topic (12)
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1k. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Jörg Rhiemeier" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 6:36 am ((PST))
Hallo conlangers!
Old Albic uses base-12 numerals, and the Elves developed
positional arithmetics (also base-12, of course). It was
developed from counting boards merchants used with columns
for 1s, 12s, 144s etc, where one would, whenever 12 tokens
ran up in one column, remove them and place one token in
the next column. The shapes of the digits have not been
determined yet, though.
--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
Messages in this topic (12)
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1l. Re: Do people ever make variant numerical systems for non-primitive
Posted by: "Daniel Myers" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 6:43 am ((PST))
> -------- Original Message --------
> From: Leonardo Castro <[email protected]>
> Date: Tue, March 05, 2013 6:52 am
>
> 2013/3/4 Matthew George <[email protected]>:
> > I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> > mathematics that whole system is.
>
> I once affirmed that to a friend and he told me "Let's check!" and
> started trying to make basic operations with Roman numerals. To my
> surprise, he succeeded! He succeeded and said: "It's not that
> difficult...". I watched he performing the operations while analyzing
> developing the methods himself and it really didn't looked very
> difficult.
>
> I don't have time to repeat what he did now, but I challenge you do so.
Agreed. Also, tools were developed to facilitate math with Roman numbers
- the medieval counting board in particular was very successful. Having
used one I can tell you that (with a bit of practice) arithmetic
computation becomes almost trivial.
There's a good paper describing them and their use here:
http://www.amatyc.org/publications/Electronic-proceedings/2005SanDiego/Bell.pdf
As long as a society doesn't have a need for calculus, they could get
along just fine without a decimal number sysem.
- Doc
Messages in this topic (12)
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2. OT: Math with roman numerals (Was: Do people ever make variant numer
Posted by: "Daniel Burgener" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 6:43 am ((PST))
On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Leonardo Castro <[email protected]>wrote:
> 2013/3/4 Matthew George <[email protected]>:
> > I was thinking about Roman numerals, and how terrible for performing
> > mathematics that whole system is.
>
> I once affirmed that to a friend and he told me "Let's check!" and
> started trying to make basic operations with Roman numerals. To my
> surprise, he succeeded! He succeeded and said: "It's not that
> difficult...". I watched he performing the operations while analyzing
> developing the methods himself and it really didn't looked very
> difficult.
>
> I don't have time to repeat what he did now, but I challenge you do so.
>
Interesting! I just tried some basic addition and multiplication with
roman numerals and it was in fact quite easy. Multiplication got tedious
quickly and I didn't go far enough to figure out really complicated
problems. (I could do, for example MXIII * V with little trouble, but I
haven't tackled MXIII * XVII yet). Addition was easy though.
Here's a simple example of the method I came up with for addition:
CCLXXIV + CXCVII
I did the work in two phases: First, "clump everything together", then
"rewrite".
Since each roman numeral represents a quantity, I can add them by simply
grouping those quantities together, with special rules for cases like "IX"
etc. I, X and C can be prefixed to larger numbers to indicate
subtraction. In this situation, there are two cases. If there is a
positive numeral of the same value in the other number, they cancel. If
not, you can carry the prefix down.
So here's the "clumping" for the above example:
CCCCLXVVI
The prefixed X and I each cancel one in the other number. Now this result
isn't good because it has four Cs and two Vs, which should become a "CD"
and an "X" respectively. That's what the "rewrite" phrase is for.
So the end result is:
CDLXXI.
(Note that the second phase may require multiple iterations, if for example
our "VV" -> "X" transformation resulted in four Xs. There are also
additional rules to follow if your result has prefixed numerals in it.
So to check in base 10, we did: 274 + 197, and got 471, which is the
correct answer.
I would wager that once one became familiar with the method, this could be
faster than addition in modern numerals (although not worth the time to
convert back and forth to Roman numerals). Multiplication seems easier
with the modern way though based on my brief experimentation with it.
-Daniel
Messages in this topic (1)
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3. Noct im Nazguls
Posted by: "Olivier Simon" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 7:11 am ((PST))
Here is the latest Sambahsa translation :
http://fr.scribd.com/doc/128339068/Noct-Im-Nazguls
Like the former one, it takes place in Middle-Earth.
If I make an announcement here, it's because I rendered Gildor's words into
Sindarin and B.Welden, who worked as an Elvish translator for the LotR movie,
accepted to review my translation.
So, you can have some fun in trying to translate back into natlangs...
Olivier
Messages in this topic (1)
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4. Online Moten Dictionary
Posted by: "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" [email protected]
Date: Tue Mar 5, 2013 8:33 am ((PST))
Hi everyone,
I've been working hard on revising my personal Moten dictionary (in Toolbox
format) in order to be able to export it in a format readable by others. I
finally finished and uploaded the resulting PDF in Google Drive. It's
available with the following link:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4Ba74aEwr57bVQ2V2QtbnJNSk0/edit?usp=sharing
In principle it's set up so that anyone with the link can view (and I think
also download) the document, but I'd like to hear from others whether
that's correct.
The document itself is a plain PDF file, without fancy things like
hyperlinks or anything similar. It's basically the output of the Export
function of Toolbox, with only minimal post-processing from me (which I
unfortunately had to do in Microsoft Word, given that's the expectation
from Toolbox). In the future when I update this document, I will try to see
whether I can add hyperlinks, but for now you'll have to make do with plain
browsing and the search function of your PDF viewer.
The dictionary itself is composed of two parts. The first one is the full
(including morphemes) Moten-English dictionary, with Moten words arranged
by stem rather than citation form (makes hardly any difference for nouns,
but at least this way verbs are next to related words rather than
clustering under the _i_ and _j_ entries :P). I've tried to be exhaustive
in the definitions, and added all kinds of comments and information like
words of similar meaning, synonyms and antonyms, counterparts, etc. so that
the semantics of each entry becomes clear (and to prove that the Moten
vocabulary isn't just a relex of English and French, hopefully :P).
The second part is an English-Moten word list, with simple English entries
and the various Moten stems that cover them. No definitions there, but the
corresponding Moten glosses include part of speech and sense number in the
Moten-English dictionary. The idea, naturally, is to look for the
equivalent of an English word in that list, and then check the
Moten-English dictionary to see the actual semantic range of that
equivalent. I know it's unpractical without hyperlinks, which is why I'll
try to add them in a future version.
Naturally, the dictionary is far from complete (446 entries in the
Moten-English side, 890 entries in the English-Moten side), but I'd still
love to get feedback from it. Is it readable, is it understandable, are
there mistakes in it I missed? Is there anything you'd like to see in it
that's missing? Comments on the semantics of Moten words are also more than
welcome :) . Do the semantic ranges make sense, do I need to add some
explanation somewhere?
BTW, there is no pronunciation guide in this document, and I've put
phonetic transcriptions only for some onomatopoeia whose pronunciations
don't follow normal Moten phonology. But you can find a complete
description of Moten pronunciation in the following link:
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.co.uk/2009/12/moten-part-i-background-and-phonology.html
So, what do you think?
--
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
Messages in this topic (1)
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